Going long?

A snowHead

Whilst having an epiphany in VT last year where I discovered that I really like the challenge to both my skills and my body that 'telemark' skiing sets me . . . to the point where I decided to sell my alpine gear and dive in with new boots . . . I now find myself needing for next season, alpine skis with 17m+ radii.

and I'm in a bit of a quandary.

First up, I'm 172cm (and shrinking), heading to 75Kg from 115Kg and rapidly approaching an 'Equitable Life' funded retirement Evil or Very Mad

. . . I'm going to have to work till they bury me where they find me, which oddly enough I find quite stimulating – as long as I'm doing something I enjoy.

I digress: The skis that took me to carving were v'short 160 Atomic SX10s and I still regret leaving in the UK as they were addictive fun on piste. With them went a pair of RC4 Fischers in 174. Nice ski but didn't hook up as hard as the Atomics and didn't fire out of a turn as aggressively . . . but made up for that by selling for what I paid for them.

So here I am, looking for a large radius ski that will be stable (and controllable) at terminal velocity on piste, whip me into a submissive bitch in high G short turns and still have enough surface area for the occasional foray into the backcountry.

I rode Atomic's new SX12pb in 183cm and was blown away on L2A's glacier . . . I was given these as all the other lengths were out on the hill but when I came back and Atomic's staff said they were too long for me and swapped them for the 169s I was deeply unimpressed with what I felt were unresponsive damp noodles in comparison to the smooth rocket ships 183s.

So, the conundrum continues, do I go long and slim or short and fat . . . bearing in mind that I do like to make Super G turns at stupid velocities and survive to make the next one?

Your thoughts . . . on how long is too long or should I be hitting eBay for some early 80's planks

A snowHead

Funny thing, Masque, but I've also been using longer and longer skis over the last couple of years. I'm a little taller and heavier than you but I'm very interested in your findings of the new Atomics.

I also had the SX10 epiphany about 6 years back, on mid 160-ish length I think. Since then, I've tended to use about 170cm except when I had a blast on the GS11s a couple of years back when I used 181(?)cm skis. Since then I've mostly used c175cm K2s or Volants and this month had a whale of a time on 184cm Legends 8000s. Admittedly they're more AM than piste, but I tried the shorter length on the same ski last year and was just underwhelmed.

I skied 205cm planks once in Sauze D'Oulx (at the insistence of the instructor) but I wasn't good enough for them - I usually used 180s at the time. But maybe the carving=short equation isn't 100% accurate. Ever try Metrons? I didn't but they looked daft to me.

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Masque, basically, if you want fast on piste then long and thin is the right way to go, but if you want to be able to still mix it off piste then you need a bit more width. I used to ski the Legend 8000s (184) and loved them, but they were a bit narrow for me (at 90+kg) in the soft stuff, and they weren't really stiff enough to hold a good edge at speed on piste. And for high speed you want something fairly stiff. Also going too short just makes life too precarious at speed - I'm quite happy with a 160cm slalom ski on a smooth piste, but anything shorter than my height (181) in anything choppy is a bit unpredictable.

I skied the SX10s a year or so ago and they were pretty easy to ski, good for tightish turns and a bit of chop, but I suggest you'd want something a bit meatier to really get into your stride. I also really enjoyed some Elan GSX skis this season, 177cm and 18.6m radius, really nice for GS turns and released very nicely for shorter radius (the similar Head Supershape Speeds were also recommended, but weren't available), but they were too narrow to really take off piste - at my weight I would say you needed to be at least ISIA-level to make a good job of it, and it's just adding unnecessary difficulty. If you really are getting down to 75kg, how about looking at the Stockli Stormriders, XL (75mm) or XXL (80mm), in something like 178 (unfortunately for you the XLs only come in 174 or 184), both at just over 18m radius. I've not skied those myself, but they come highly recommended - I was skiing with a guy in Zermatt on XXLs, similar weight to you, possibly a tad taller, who was a complete demon off-piste through the trees, and carved them nicely when he wanted to, but he mostly preferred skiddy turns - I'd certainly be looking at them if I were a bit lighter. A few years ago I had a ball on the 93mm wide Stormrider DP Pros - although they needed skiing too fast for a general purpose ski and the 29m radius is a bit specialist - and I've never skied a Stockli ski that's not worked well at speed.

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GrahamN, were those waveflex gsx? have you skied 2v? if so which were stiffer?

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slikedges, yes, the waveflex. Sorry, not tried the 2Vs so can't make a comparison. Our coach was on factory 2Vs, which I assume were way stiffer. The Elans didn't strike me as particularly stiff but were excellent for GS style turns, and really got me balancing forward against the outside ski - once I learned to trust them. Was great training, as if I skied dry-slope style then the outside ski just went straight Embarassed

- so they must have had some stiffness in them.

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Waveflex get a vote from me too. Used the 12s last season - not as grippy as the Atomics but for recreation that was OK - allowed you to slack off if you want. Compared say to decent (punter) slaloms that just demand to be driven. I think rob@rar is a fan.

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Masque, a BASI trainer i skied with this season on a course was absolutely raving over the Atomics you mentioned and he said he was faster in GS course with the Atomic skiercross 12 model than race dept GS skis... I think a skiercross ski is a great comprimise for ISIA/ISTD level courses.

the rossi's stewart mentioned seem to be very popular, Rossi is having a demo day at Milton Keynes for Instructors on May 6th if you spoke to them you may be able to get in on that and give em a go....

i bought a pair of Volkl AC30's that were quite grippy and did me well on my courses, and you could try the stocklis at GrahamN says, i personally found them a bit too GSy for my liking..

note that you dont need +17M for the mountain safety course and i think, but could be wrong, that you dont need em for the teach course as well...

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skimottaret, It was at last seasons Mondial and I slid the SX12s and the GS back to back and there was no comparison between them for me and in retrospect I think it's my manner of carving. Because of my boarding background I move my Centre of Mass during a carved turn longitudinally on the ski to a greater extent than many. It might be described as a slowed down slalom turn as I transfer my kinetic loading from the nose, through my foot centre and into the tail of the ski. The torsionally stiff and short sprung tails of the SX respond well to this whereas the overall stiffer GS ski has a much smaller 'sweet spot' and will hold an edge better if your mass is passing through one spot and if you move away from that area either the tip or the tail will start to bounce out of the edge track and skid.

You know it makes sense.

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andyph, rob@rar, did the magfire range have waveflex technology Puzzled

skimottaret, stewart woodward, IIRC the 8X is not 17m in the ~170cm length

A snowHead

Masque Before reading the thread I was also going to suggest the Rossignol 9X World Cup oversize 170cm Radius 17m. BMF_Skier has just bought a set and we both skied them last December. I think they would tick all the boxes that you require. Sorry for presuming to suggest anything at my level, but I do think you would be impressed by them. See our thread about them here.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=50755#1191367

A snowHead

slikedges, well they have a corrugated topsheet, so I assume yes. But I'm sure the Elan website will reveal all.

I tried the Rossi 9X a couple of seasons ago at the suggestion of an instructor but was distinctly underwhelmed. At the time I was an Atomic SX junky and the Rossis seemed lifeless and flat - no spring in them. But as previously stated I'm a few kg heavier and not so good a skier as Masque so maybe you could get more out of them.

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i got racetiger GS titanium racing jobbies in a 180 this year. They aint the proper race stock FIS legal versions, but they're plenty stiff for me (I like a stiff ski as I come in the wrong side of 16.5 stone). Love em

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rob@rar, simply put ('cos that's the only way I can understand it wink

), there're transverse waves across the topsheet and these overlie elements of construction that provide for greater torsional rigidity without an associated increase in longitudinal rigidity, so edge hold and precision are increased without making the ski too difficult to decamber. Great for the skilled but lighter weight skier. I've got the slalom version and am considering the GS version as well now.

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The easiest way of thinking of the waveflex technology is to imagine a rectangular piece of corrugated cardboard (they are sold with a piece attached to prove the point) - clearly it bends if flexed along the length of the corrugations but take hold of diagonally opposite corners and try to bend/ twist it and you find the torsional rigidity. The same idea is supposed to strenthen the skis. I've got it on my Wave Magics - the surface is distinctively 'rippled' in pronounced waves - about 8 or so along the length of the tips of the skis and a few less along the tails.

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Masque,

I think Stockli Stormrider XXL in about 178 would be very good for you at 75-80kg. I ski (a few years old) XL 174cm and on piste they are utterly brilliant (built like race stock GS skis but a bit fatter). They are good off-piste in most conditions but when it's cut up and/or heavy, I'd like a bit more surface area and the XXL with a bit more length would be about right (and probably my choice for a do everything ski today).

They are fairly expensive but the construction (plenty of metal and wood) measn that you should get plenty of life out of them.

Mine show no sign of wearing out. Becasue of that, if I buy another pair of skis it willprobably be something complementary, i.e., bigger than the XXLs.

Cheers,
J

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Try this year's Fischer progressor 9+. Awesome ski! It's almost impossible to make them sliding sideways on ice. We were 3 who tested. Everyone was surprised about the best perfomance we have ever expierenced. Tried them in bumps and offpiste as well

there's writen review of last years fischers pr. - http://www.ski-review.com/content/view/617/30/

You know it makes sense.

Arno, tart!

Help!!

Going long?

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