 Poster: A snowHead
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I must admit that I don’t ski a great deal in ski resorts these days. With the introduction of fast ski lifts, modern ski and snowboard gear and equipment like helmets and back protectors you seem to get slopes full of Robocop clad loons honing around the place without a thought for other slope users. I remember the case of Philippe Traynard, French ski touring pioneer who was hit by an out of control skier a couple of years back at the bottom of the pistes at Chamrousse. Traynard, in his late 80s and still skiing suffered a broken hip. The end of a long ski career through no fault of his own.
Today I was at les Sept Laux. The resort has something of a reputation with so called “freeriders” but the place was nearly empty. I was skiing with my 4 year old son. After a lunch stop with mum we were climbing up a path that links the restaurant area with the “front neige”. Suddenly a “freerider” appeared over the lip of the slope riding switch and after avoiding me crashed into my son. This on a path within the resort. The slopes above completely empty, you would have to try very hard to run into someone.
My boy received the full force of the skier and though nothing was broken was bruised and shocked by the incident. After some remonstrations with the skier who told me he could teach me a thing or two about skiing I took my son back to the restaurant to recover. Accidents happen but to ski like that in a beginner’s area then across a footpath is outrageous. The piste security were not particularly interested in the incident. This is the second time this season we’ve had a problem in this zone. Earlier in the year another roboidiot fell on my son after trying a hockey stop at the bottom of the beginners drag lift. Another person who considered himself “an expert skier”.
What is to be done? Well don’t ski in resort is one answer but I do wonder whether French ski resorts need to get over their “laissez-faire” attitude and introduce pro-active American style slope policing? I’m absolutely furious about the incident and am going to make my thoughts known to the mayor. At the very least they could install a chicane at the bottom of the slopes to slow users down entering a pedestrian and beginner’s area.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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davidof, this subject has been done several times. Personally I've never encountered a 'busy' resort or out of control loons, but this may be because my recent trips have been off peak weeks in Austrian and Italian resorts. 'Policing' might not be a bad idea in busy resorts during peak weeks but I can't see how it would be necessary at other times. Most of my ski holiday this year we had the pistes to ourselves and never had to queue for a lift. It was a bit busier at the weekend with locals but still no problems to report...
Best wishes to your son. Glad he wasn't too injured...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, glad junior is ok. Once we couldnt take the kids out of school we have chose resorts for quietness and slope safety.
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| Quote: |
At the very least they could install a chicane at the bottom of the slopes
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I;ve noticed some chicanes appearing here in the past few years, and they do the job. I agree that it's something that resort management needs to think more about. They are interested in feedback from users (there's a poll here at the moment) so maybe if more parents report back after nasty incidents like that, they'll take notice, particularly in resorts which market themselves as family destinations. I hope your boy doesn't suffer any ill effects, davidof. Collisions remain exceptionally rare here - as do roboclad loons. 50 year olds in 'seventies suits and long thin skis are more common, and they never bump into anyone. I was on a slope with some very fast skiers today but they were all very competent and gave us a suitably wide berth as they flashed past.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidof, totally agree with your thinking on this. Glad your son is ok.
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Frosty the Snowman,
Ahh, so that's why u love la woss.
davidof,
That is awful, these folk need their passes removed!
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Frosty the Snowman, yes, I now see that there is some sense in going to a resort that everyone else hates...
I was hit twice in La Plagne last week. Taken out from behind while stationary by an out of control Frenchman who had already taken out another guy before he got to me  Second time was by a young girl who just lost control and did no real damage apart from take my ski with her! Zit 2 was also flattened, but I didn't see how that came about.
Some pistes were extremely busy and in some ways it is surprising that I didn't see more accidents.
On another tack, I was rather impressed to see a liftie nearly get into a fight with an guy that was trying to queue jump. Good to see him take it seriously.
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davidof, first I'm glad you son is OK physically - I hope he is not too much shaken by the whole thing. I saw something very similar in Les Deux Alpes a couple of seasons or so ago - a mum and her son by themselves near the osde of a wode beginners slope. The small boy was taken out by a high speed skier who had the whole of a motorway he could have skied in. The miscreant did not stop. I understand from easiski that there is not possible in law for the French authorities to confiscate a lift pass - I think that should change.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I also blame the skis (and the way we use them) to some degree.
The morden carving skis allows beginer to achieve high speed early, before they gain enough ability in precise control. And the focus on "clean carve" for the rest of the ski population (intermediate to advanced) mostly encourages higher speed and using a larger width of a given piste.
In the days before the "carving" craze, only beginers go from side to side taking up the whole piste. And they did so only at relatively low speed, which is relatively easy to go around. Nowadays, an empty piste often sees a stream of skiers carving from edge to edge at various speed. It's simply more difficult to calculate the intersection point when you have one skier going from left to right at 40 mph and one going from right to left at 45 mph! Mistakes are made and collisions sometimes occured.
I've had two "near misses" this season. Both were on relatively not too busy pistes. Both cases has to do with piste users using a fairly wide section of the piste at relatively fast speed, making it quite a bit more difficult for skier from behind to pick a safe path through. In one case, I narrowly missed a skier on the left when a skier on the right cut into my path forcing me to change line abruptly, while still carrying a fair bit of forward speed. In another case, an overtaking skier skied over my skis releasing my binding  causing me to fall. Neither of us were hurt but both were a bit shook up, especially given the speed we were traveling. The cause of his skiing over my binding had to do with him mis-judging our converging speed/directions.
While both cases technically shouldn't have happen, it remains more complicated to estimate 2 (or 3, or more) high speed moving objects going on a curved trajectory.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 13-04-09 0:08; edited 1 time in total
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davidof,
Glad all is ok... and hope your son is not put off by these idiots.
I have seen this sort of pattern in the last few years..and have been taken out myself....so I am surprised you didn't go a bit further...
When on piste, I have slowed right down and am very aware of people out of their control zone
An accident is an accident but there must be a degree of responsibilty here. If someone had set of an avalanche then some resorts authorities might be looking for the cultprit..so why is that not extended to people skiing like this in built-up skiing areas. ..?
I don't know how you kept your cool, tbh..!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| davidof, totally agree with your thinking on this. Glad your son is ok. |
Ditto.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I skied at Les Arcs this season and was very impressed by the 'traffic calming measures'. Chicanes, dedicated quiet ski areas etc.
It is unfortunate that as a slower skier people are very much more at risk to being hit than if they are a faster skier, usually not by their own choosing. If you are at the upper end of the distribution of speeds on a given slope it is largely up to you to avoid people and you fate is in your own hands, while when you ski slowly you are almost totally reliant on others around you to take care so many parents ski behind their kids as a 'blocker'.
This said, people should be mindful of the environment they are skiing in. Taking on a slope which requires you to do shallow traverses over the entire width of the slope just to get down is dangerous to other skiers since your line is so wildly different to other peoples' and it puts you at great risk despite the 'downhill skier has priority' rule. Gain confidence and skill first and until then, ski somewhere more appropriate for your skill level. For me, shallow traverses should come under the rule for setting off each time, check up the slope - to do otherwise is dangerous, people do not have 180 degree field of vision in front of the them see you ski into them from the side.
If there are too many people around I will find somewhere else to ski since I don't feel comfortable. Blues and some reds are the worst due to the wide variety of skiing speed and line, you get everyone from people carving GS turns to people who have just got off the nursery slope. I'm concious that even carving on slalom skis I will be quicker than the majority of people and taking a different line.
The only time I have been hit in 15 years (touchwood) has been by a racer on super g skis. What on earth this guy was thinking going for it on those kind of skis on a busy piste I will never know - I very luckily got off with no serious injury probably on due to the speed I was going, had I been skiing very slowly I would have been in bad shape I think. I did have on ridiculous situation this season where someone overtook me and then hockey stopped in front of me, I turned to avoid just as someone traversing the slope came the other way and yelled at me when there really was nothing I could have done!
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I got taken out from behind by a speeding boarder on a ridiculously overcrowded piste in Courchevel last year and it hurt big-time, so I hope your some is OK and doesn't get discouraged by the experience. The boarder, a stereotypically loutish young Brit, verbally laid into me for changing direction erratically (true-ish, as I turned suddenly to avoid a patch of ice) but, fortunately, I was in a lesson and my instructor gave him one of the biggest dressing-downs that I've ever seen and made it extremely clear to him that he was entirely to blame. I bet it didn't change his behaviour, though. I suspect that in North America he'd have been marched off to the ticket office to be relieved of his pass.
I think that some of the blame lies with resorts. Relying on skiers to observe the Alpine Code isn't working; instead, measures are needed to reduce overcrowding and fences / chicanes / flags, etc should be used more often to enforce slow-downs at busy bottlenecks. A few scary signs (eg 37 lift passes confiscated for speeding here last season!) might also help.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Glad your son is o.k. - I think I would have chinned the prat - I admire your self restraint.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I can report 0 collisions in the Coire Cas Gunbarrel today, but a boarder did fall through the snow into the stream!
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Winterhighland, 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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davidof, I agree with you, what all skiers and boarders need is to be taught from the very start about how to behave on and off the piste. The standard of manners these days seems to be becoming lower and lower. I nearly was taken out myself this season by a stupid young skier when i was with some slower skiers. Jumping blind rollers on blue runs is just crazy. I hope they start stopping these guys/and girls and taking there lift passes away.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As an experienced skier I think this all goes to show that it is now safer (at least for skiers like me) to ski off piste. This was certainly my impression in both Zermatt and Chamonix this season. After all the pistes are a relatively recent invention. Perhaps they should be marked but not groomed so as to moderate the speeds of the less competent. Some resorts divide crowded routes into two lanes with a beginners side, which is a good idea. They could just groom the beginners' lane!
If you are a member of SCGB you can ski off piste with a rep (not on glaciers or certain terrain) free. They have to pass a tough 2 week course on mountain skills and safety as well as being a good skier, and not everyone who takes the course can pass it. If you are qualified and can take 3 weeks or more off work to ski with groups of different standards you can do it all season with basic expenses and lift pass paid (but no wages). I can only take a week at a time, but have had some great days out with various resort reps over the last 34 years!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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launcelyn, to snowHeads, the SCGB reps are well known phenomena. Can't remember seeing your posts before - so welcome to snowHeads from me.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 13-04-09 17:02; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| launcelyn wrote: |
| They have to pass a tough 2 week course on mountain skills and safety as well as being a good skier |
Do you know what is covered on the two week course?
davidof sorry to hear your news. Hope your son hasn't been put off skiing by the actions of the idiot.
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davidof, I'm glad your litle son wasnt injured - & I hope he (& you ) recover from what must have been a terrible fright. I think there are undoubtedly more bad skiers around at the moment - Ray Zorro,'s experience in La Plagne doesnt suprise me, as I have seen some nasty accidents each time I have ventured over there. People seem to ski with blinkers on - completely unaware of what is going on around them, & at speeds obviously way above their abilities. I wish I knew what the answer is 
Let us know davidof, how you get on with the mayor & what he has to say about it.
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| Quote: |
Taking on a slope which requires you to do shallow traverses over the entire width of the slope just to get down is dangerous to other skiers
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Not sure I agree with that - the main problem is people skiing far too fast on the "easy" pistes, not folk going slowly on the more difficult ones. People going slowly are pretty easy to avoid. Bad accidents, as indicated above, are often caused by people who really fancy themselves as experts but are thoughtless and careless. Like idiot drivers who ram the back of a car and then have the nerve to criticise the other driver for "braking suddenly".
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On the subject of dangerous practices, I've just returned from Aspen with a dislocated left shoulder, half my ear stitched back on after being taken out by a snowboarder who was in mid air, at head height on a wide blue piste. I was stopped waiting for my wife and he jumped a small rise and crashed directly into me knocking me down the slopes. That was on day 5 of a 14 day holiday so much agony and no more skiing! Six inches to the right and he could have killed me! A totally ruined holiday, but what to do? What actually can be done? I complained to Aspen about reckless skiing / boarding and they said that if they bounced the pass of every skier / boarder that was reckless they'd have no customers! I believe that eventually they did withdraw his pass but by that time it as too late as the damage had been done. Colorado has strict laws on responsibility for injuries, but I am not hopeful that I will be able to get any form of compensation. If he has no insurance I can sing for any recompense! Riding far too fast down the fall line with no awareness of others and jumping in areas that are not meant for it. I have no idea how this recklessness can be reduced... compulsory insurance before you can buy a lift pass? more patrols, but that costs! Sad tale of a ruined holiday where of course we had glorious sunshine and more snow for the last two or three days, and all could do was watch!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jollyroger, not to excuse the guy taking a blind jump, but I never stand in dead man's ground because of the obvious dangers!
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 13-04-09 18:14; edited 2 times in total
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I agree, however, there's no excuse for crazy and dangerous actions. What if it had been a small child? There was a group of kids with their instructor on the same piste... Sorry, there's really no excuse.. uphill skier and all that....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jollyroger,
| Quote: |
| Sorry, there's really no excuse.. |
...and I never said there was...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jollyroger wrote: |
| On the subject of dangerous practices, I've just returned from Aspen with a dislocated left shoulder, half my ear stitched back on after being taken out by a snowboarder who was in mid air, at head height on a wide blue piste. I was stopped waiting for my wife and he jumped a small rise and crashed directly into me knocking me down the slopes. |
I mean this no disrespect to everyone who has posted on here (and Davidof I hope your son was'nt to shook up and still gets back on ski's) however as a snowboarder I jump off rollers on blue runs because I enjoy it and I can, I have had the odd close call with skiers stood just out of eye level but this has nothing to do with speed. It may be a little reckless but then I have (every now and then) tugged my handbrake down a country lane, if I get the chance to see over the hedge and it's clear I belive it is safe and wil do so and how else did mr McRae and Mr Burns become so good at rally driving?
If I gave a thought to my actions being dangerous I would never go boarding and if I thought about other peoples actions I'd never walk out of my street. Jolly Rodger were you stood on the piste while waiting for your wife? The FIS code says to stand at the side of the piste for this very reason.
Policing goes so far but I'm afraid if your worried for the sake of younger children they prob should'nt be there in the first place. May I add we have family holidays with a 5 year old and we protect him all day every day on pistes we think he is safe on (Davidof your sitiation sounds similar to ours and I also don't know how you refraind yourself from inflicting justice yourself)
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 13-04-09 18:56; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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manicpb, sorry, but you sound like a a complete twerp.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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manicpb,
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| I have had the odd close call with skiers stood just out of eye level |
You're going to kill someone one day.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Each to thier own I guess, enjoy your time on the slopes folks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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davidof, hubby is of the same opinion following his accident at New Year. NOw he is going to be one of the robo-clad (although not a loon), with back protector and helmet, as he can't afford another neck fracture. I wrote to Compagnie des Alpes afterwards. They replied politely and offered me a meeting with the management in Serre Chevalier, but I still don't think they got the point
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Nous mettons tout en œuvre pour assurer la sécurité des clients et des personnels :
þ le "Pass'montagne", véritable guide du domaine skiable, sensibilise (p. 4) les skieurs aux règles de sécurité (respect d'autrui, maîtrise de la vitesse et du comportement, choix de la direction par celui qui est en amont, …)
Par ailleurs, nous avons mis en place, sur le domaine skiable, une signalétique claire :
þ chevrons, "slows ralentir", ...,
þ informations, sur certains pylônes de remontées mécaniques, rappelant 2 règles importantes : priorité au skieur aval et maîtrise de la vitesse (affichage sur des panneaux de 3m x 1.5m en couleur)
þ prise en compte de ces règles au travers d’un paragraphe « comportemental » dans l’arrêté municipal relatif à la sécurité sur les pistes de ski alpin
þ en février, mise en place d’une action « Pisteur prudent » afin de sensibiliser la clientèle au travers des enfants en leur faisant partager les notions de respect, de vitesse, de difficultés , ...
Malheureusement, nous ne pouvons pallier au manque de civisme et de respect des conditions de sécurité de certaines personnes.
Nous sommes vraiment désolés de ce qui est arrivé à votre époux et espérons qu'il se remettra très vite de ces blessures. Nous sommes à votre disposition pour vous recevoir le cas échéant, en présence du Directeur de la Sécurité et des Pistes. |
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jollyroger, Sorry to hear you tale of woe. Hope it recovers quickly
manicpb, Just because you can doesnt mean you should - particularly on a busy piste. I hope never to meet you on a country lane, either
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| Each to thier own I guess, enjoy your time on the slopes folks! |
How do you deal with people like that? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| How do you deal with people like that? |
Darwin usually finds a way.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| manicpb, sorry, but you sound like a a complete twerp. |
Well said
manicpb if it wasn't for skiers/boarders like you, who have no thought for the safety of other piste users, my husband wouldn't have been critically injured , and wouldn't hve had emergency surgery to repair a broken neck . He wouldn't have missed all of his holidays, and wouldn't have needed physio and 8 weeks at home on sick leave. He'd be out enjoying his mountain bike, and would have been skiing in March. He wouldn't be in almost constant discomfort an pain, and needing to lie down each night after work.
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| FenlandSkier wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| How do you deal with people like that? |
Darwin usually finds a way. |
Yeah, but it's the innocent ones that they take with them.
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PJSki, unfortunately you're right.I would rather not think of how close we came to that
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I can't belive my comments were took so offensive, I do apologise!
I have never had a major accident in 15 years of boarding and as I say I (along with my family with much less slope experiance) I look after a 5 year old almost single handed. I'm 28, no council estate thug, and proud of working hard for my one holiday each year which happens to be in the Alps.
As I said Davidof's situation sounded very similar to my annual holiday but I did'nt agree with Jolly rogers moans and groans. If I have had a minor accident (mine or others fault) I have always removed my board and returned to the accident to check all are ok.
I'm sorry you feel this way but I love boarding and will continue to ride in a mannor I feel safe without hindering other people.
Hope my point is understood and taken on board (no pun intended).
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Unbelievable....
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FAQ
sorry about your ruined holiday.