 Poster: A snowHead
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A few lifts in Zermatt had queues last week, and I was pleasantly surprised by how polite the whole affair was. Despite the Germans' reputation for pushiness and a complete absence of ropes to maintain order, I was rarely barged and most people voluntarily moved aside to ensure we were able to keep together as a family. This was in complete contrast to earlier experinces that I've had of queues in big French resorts. The very few agressive queuers that I met were all British, but there was no pattern of age or gender amongst them.
This brings me to my question: who are the best and worst queuers? Are Zermatt queues pleasant because German and Swiss cultures value politeness? Because there weren't many Brits there? Bacause it's a posh resort and posh people aren't generally agressive? Because all those posh people were worried that their designer gear might get scratched if they started pushing? Or because the sun was shining and we were all happy?
Who do you prefer to share a queue with?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm struggling to remember any real problem. I mainly ski in France, with some in US and a small amount in Switzerland, Italy and Japan.
Maybe it's me doing the pushing. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lift queues? What are they? LOL!
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Jonny Jones, we are in a smaller French resort where queue behaviour is generally impeccable, with particular care for small children. There are few queues outside the 5 peak French ski weeks (New Year and Feb) which no doubt helps. Yesterday was intereresting though. We joined a queue for a draglift which went quite a long way up the slope, with everyone standing across the slope, and side slipping towards the lift. But there's a run coming down the other side of the lift - which anyone "in the know" crosses before the bottom, to avoid walking round below the lift. Lots of people who weren't in the know were coming round and walking up to join the back of the queue - carrying their skis in some cases, or carrying little kids. It was a pain for them. But one woman - I would say in her 40s and almost certainly French (as practically everyone is) decided she was too good, and too important, to have to do this. She was a certain sort of blonde, in a white head band and a certain sort of ski suit. Not poor, let's say. We watched in fascination as she shuffled around, pretending to look for companions, first going through the queue "excusez-moi" then pottering around behind people for a while, before insinuating herself into the queue near the lift entrance. Had she tried it in front (or indeed behind) us my OH would most definitely have made some comment to her. But it was a sunny day, nobody bawled her out and she got away with it.
It was because this was so unusual - in the midst of an exceptionally orderly queue (and one full of people with good side-slipping skills, incidentally) that we noticed the cheeky cow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We got stuck in a massive queue in Corvara, Italy in January after the lift broke down. The queue was 10 persons wide and 50 +meters long, well past the railings that funnel folk through. Behaviour was excellent, much better than expected, then a lardy Italian came in at speed infront of about 100 folk. People started swearing at him and hitting him with ski poles. He tried to stand his ground, but no one would let him it. It was brilliant!!!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Despite the Germans' reputation for pushiness and a complete absence of ropes to maintain order, I was rarely barged and most people voluntarily moved aside to ensure we were able to keep together as a family. |
In my experience the German/ central european culture deems a slight tap as an exceptable way of letting someone know you want to get past. It's not so much that one country is rude but more a culture difference. Quite often the tap from behind is an indication for you to move forward to the gap in front of you before someone else takes it slowing you and the person behind you up.
Was in Zell am See last week and the biggest problem near the lifts was people standing in the way of the traffic flow waiting for their ski mates / family. People were also letting 4 & 6 man chairs go up while making sure all their group was on the same lift. These were mainly Brits and a higher percentage of them were boarders. One Brit even reversed out of the lift gate into me as I was crossing behind him to get to the emtpy lift gate by the side of him - in his defense he did apologise. In another incident I boarded a chair with two other elderly Brits onto a moving/magic carpet. The guy on my left walked forward, we were not in a line and I suspected the lift would swing so placed myself in the middle (forward of one guy yet behind the other). The first guy gets on the chair but this causes the lift to start swinging before the last guy got on. The first guy than pulls down the bar without even looking to his right, smacks the other guy hard on the head with the bar and knocks off his hat.
If you wait for someone while in the lift queue please move to the side out of the way.
If you are in a large group and want to go up togther yet there are free places for the lifts in front of you please check behind to see if any singles can fill up the chairs.
When boarding a chairlift it is better when everyone is lined out otherwise the chair starts swinging and slams into the back of people's legs. If it's a magic carpet/conveyor type lift there isn't normally a need to walk further forward. (needed when someone boards late and needs to line up with the others).
When pulling the bar down I find it's best to lower the bar slightly and then check to see other people have realized the bar is being lowered before pulling it all the way down.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 14-04-09 14:40; edited 1 time in total
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pam w, did you have the temerity to speak to them as well? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've only ever been trampled on twice in lift queues - both times by tall boorish dutch men 
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The Russians were dreadful in Canazei in January. Our hotel had a minibus to take us and collect us from the bottom of the gondola. We returned the first day and there were already some people waiting for it. No problem. Driver would be back in 10 or so minutes. We then waited for him to come back. As he pulled in, some Russian "guests", who had just got off the gondola, shoved us out of the way and started loading their skis in the back, whilst one blocked the doorway to the minibus. There was almost a fist fight and certainly a lot of shouting. One of our group did get the last spare seat. When we eventually got picked up, she told us that she gave them a lecture about queuing as they did not think there was anything wrong with their behaviour! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w,
For those skiers / boarders who insist on standing just at the bend of the lift queue forcing people to go around them while they stare up the slope looking for ski mates - I find a high speed yet controlled hocky stop just in front of them does work wonders to cure their ignorance. It doesn't half get 'em jumping to get out of the way though, especially the boarders. 
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DB, i am not sure that sort of manoeuver is permitted under the skiers' code 
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You know it makes sense.
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There was often a bit of a scrum waiting for the lifts to open in Vallandry last week.
Generally this was all good natured, but there was one young lad who I observed turning up just as the lifts opened and ducking under a barrier 3 days running. On the fourth day I made sure I was out early and was standing by said barrier - I had great delight "accidentally" blocking all his attempts to get under
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Boris, Best way to avoid that sort of scrum is not to get up so early 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Only ever boarded in France but have seen some seriously bad queueing from all sorts of people from all over the world. The French do tend to be a bit of a wierd bunch, if only because they stare so much, but I have noticed the Brts go all meek and just queue without any barging.
Had some Russian (or so so they sounded) queue bargers in ADH the other week so it was a case of hand out, grab ropes either side and just stop them getting past. They huffed, puffed and tried to barge past but I just ignored them and they got into line after 30 seconds or so.
The old trick of standing on the release mech of ski bindings with my board is my usual way of getting my own back on queue bargers. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Boredsurfing, with 3-kids 8 and under - I've forgotten what that's like 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The ex soviet countries seem to be the worst for pushing in and not being able to queue (which is odd considerign the years of practice they had), then again they seem to be the worst at everything on the slopes expect having massive taches and dreadful taste in skiwear.
The italians just don't seem to understand that 7 people trying to cram into the space of 2 will not speed things up
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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papasmurf, someone said (I have a feeling it was Bill Bryson) that communism might have worked if tried in Britain, because we're better at queuing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| maggi wrote: |
| The Russians were dreadful in Canazei in January. |
Some of the Italians used to be dreadful in Canazei.
I remember mammas passing kids over ropes before climbing over to join them.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| papasmurf, someone said (I have a feeling it was Bill Bryson) that communism might have worked if tried in Britain, because we're better at queuing. |
I was queueing with my instructor to get on the T-bar on the glacier in Saas Fee last Summer. Despite moving forward as soon as there was space to do so without touching the skis of the person in front of me, I kept having others (mainly people doing race training it seemed) pushing past me. My instructor jokily commented , "Your problem is that the British don't know how to queue!" To which I replied, "No, we do know how to queue, the problem is hardly anyone else does!"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
The italians just don't seem to understand that 7 people trying to cram into the space of 2 will not speed things up
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I noticed that when walking round Rome - and being glad I wasn't driving...
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| A few lifts in Zermatt had queues last week, and I was pleasantly surprised by how polite the whole affair was. |
I think this is as much a function of time of year as it is to do with nationality. The Portes du Soleil was likewise extremely civilised over the weekend and I didn't see a single bit of either pushy or bad-tempered queuing - which is unusual.
My personal bugbear are the local race club "yoof" who are so used to having lift line priority that they've been trained that queuing doesn't apply to them any more.
I must admit that, whilst I've turned into an "assertive queuer", MrsFlyingStantoni has turned into an extremely effective queue "ninja slinker" and just quietly "slinks" into whatever small gap presents itself. One minute she's stood next to me; the next she's on the chair without me. There are no family members in a bad lift queue.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The worst offender for me back in March was the ESF instructor who pushed my 3 year old out of the way just as she was attempting her first solo drag lift. It also meant I was even further back from my 5 year old (who mastered the drag lift the day before) The lifty rolled her eyes and apologised on his behalf!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I saw a fist fight break out between two women when one tried to shove her way into a (not exactly over-crowded) bubble on the top stage of the La Grave lift yesterday. one of the protagonists was British, not sure about the other. amusement and bemusement in equal measure amongst the onlookers
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| A few lifts in Zermatt had queues last week, and I was pleasantly surprised by how polite the whole affair was. |
You should have been there in February. Some of the worst queue scrums ever, particularly at the Klein Matterhorn gondola.
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You know it makes sense.
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The thing I always find amusing about lift queues is the oddness that:
1. when really busy, people faff about waiting for friends and let chairs go half-empty
2. when really quiet, people go mad to get on my chair when they could have a chair to themselves seconds later
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
when really quiet, people go mad to get on my chair when they could have a chair to themselves seconds later
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As a very wobbly snowboarder I went down to our local lift, past three skiers - who had to be exceptionally incompetent for me to pass them at my slow speed. Otherwise the piste, and the lift, was completely empty. I got there first and shuffled forward into place, only to be stunned when the three beginner skiers came on the chair with me - they had to really hustle and shuffle to get there in time. On the way up, after thinking about it and rehearsing the relevant French in my head, I warned them I was a beginner and not too good at getting off at the top. "Pas de probleme - ca ira" was the answer. Which showed how little they knew.... but I did manage not to knock any of them over at the top.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I was stuck in a massive jam for 45 minutes for a cable car in Austria. While unpleasent for the length of time I had to wait, I have to say the queueing (or I should say non-queuing) behavior wasn't particularly any worse than what I expected. (ok, I grew up in a communist country ) No pushing nor shoveling. Just quietly inch forward, however slowly.
Last week, I did have an issue with a Russian (only a guess of nationality). Not to the lift, but getting on the train. He insist on blocking the door while loading his 15 or more bags for the entire family!
I had my pay back when boarding the connecting train though. He was standing in the wrong section of the platform so I got to the door first. I had to make two trips to get all my luggage onboard. Normally, I would have step aside after dropping my skis to let others pass, then go get my other bags. Instead, I decided to let him have the same pill he gave me. I simply block the door with my first bag, went back to get my second bag, also dropped that next to the door (blocking his access to the door entirely), then went back to get my ski bag. He had no choice but to wait and watch till I finish getting all my bags and skis onboard.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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abc, and Alexandra, I like your style
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Queue control in europe is terrible and lift capacity is never utilised well either. The americans would have a fit if they skied here.
Worst queuing behaviour I have experience is probably in Bulgaria, nothing short of appalling levels of pushing, shoving, skies across skis cutting in etc. Italy is also very bad and Norway is far from good.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
The americans would have a fit if they skied here.
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But the "americans" wouldn't be there during half term (if they can help it).
Hence, no queues. And no queue manner to be "culturally shocked".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
The italians just don't seem to understand that 7 people trying to cram into the space of 2 will not speed things up
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I noticed that when walking round Rome - and being glad I wasn't driving... |
I noticed it the year before last just after getting onto the motorway after leaving Naples airport - and I was driving 
8 lanes through the toll booths, normally went down to 3 about 200m later, but due to roadworks, went down to 2 lanes. It took nearly half an hour to do that 200m, but once past the choke point, traffic flowed freely. At that time, my total driving experience in Italy was 10 minutes!
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So sad, so very sad, and I thought people skied for pleasure
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One things that irritates me about Les Arcs ( what? surely not..???!) is the cost cutting by the SMA and their pass readers.
On a 6 man lift, there are 5. On a 4 man lift there are 3, and on a three man lift there are 2.
Without exception. Go on - count them So anyone attempting to line up properly is stymied before you start, and that's before they feed the ESF in.
Having said that on the Varet Gondala the past couple of days, they have been using the 'singles' gate to great affect, and should be applauded for that.
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Here's a slightly off topic tale of self-embarrassment. Picture the scene, late in the afternoon above Courchevel, a three man chair with no queue. A man and a lady approach the gates, occupying the two outer slots. Yours truly, for a reason that I still cannot fathom, pushes himself forward and just makes the central gate as it opens, all three glide forward and get on the chair together. I have to say that the French couple took it really well, this idiot Brit barging in to fill up a chair between them when there was nobody else waiting for the next chair that would have been all of 20 seconds later. How sheepish I was but they just had their conversation across me while I wondered what kind of Pavlovian training about filling empty single spaces chairlifts had done to me, and we parted with a cheery Au Revoir. Still at least I had not queue jumped .....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Can't you at least pretend to be German?
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After the Dutch chairlift spitting incident that I commented on at New Year, I have made an effort not to be Internationally judgemental in lift queues.
However, it was the Belgians who were the absolutely worst offenders for letting virtually empty chairs go, in La Rosiere last week and all because they couldn't sit next to nearest and dearest on a relatively short ride. Not only that, but this decision was often made at the very last minute. For this I also blame the lifties for tolerating it.
No problems at all this week in PDS, but then it has been deliciously quiet.
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