 Poster: A snowHead
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Helpful advice needed from bootfitters please as my wife is about to sack skiing altogether!
Just returned from a trip to Le Tania that could have been great but in all honesty was a disaster. The problem (again) was my wifes feet. She has high arches and apart from once in Aamerica years ago we can't seem to find boots that don't have her weeping in pain and rushing to rip the boots off!
The problem (in order) as she describes it is this.
1. Pressure on the top of the foot.
2. Pain on top of foot.
3. Numbing of toes
4. Pain/burning/cramping on outside edge of foot and toes.
5. Panic and tears and she and I struggle to get the boots off.
We've tried fitters in Les Arc, Le Tania and most recently Surefoot in Courcheval. I know there are mixed feelings about Surefoot but initially they seemed to know what they were on about (initially) They didn't seem to push the most expensive option but we did get there in the end.
They tried generic boots first. No good. Then customs footbeds in generic boots as they said the arch support was the issue. No good. Then Foam liners, with customs footbeds in their (well, their branded boots, lange I think). Still no good.
I was convinced the last option would work as it's all moulded, footbed and liners right so what could go wrong? Still no good. Bear in mind we are now 4 days into holiday, back and forward to shop, bits removed, head/beard sctaching, last resort.....bigger boots, still seems to start with the pressure on top and of course with bigger boots the heel was lifting. As her feet had more and more punishment the numbered process above just seemed to speed up.
She did, once get boots that were ok in America, these were rentals and were probably massive and as she was just learning the heel lift may not have seemed like a problem???? Or maybe by some fluke they just fitted? Sorry this post is so long.
She really enjoys it and was gutted by the holiday as she was doing really well in America. She has since had a baby, someone said that changes your feet?
So my questions are:
1. Have bootfitters come across people then just cannot fit with boots.
2. Should she sack it and try snowboarding?
3. Any other options......soft boots, fat blades (short fat skis with snowboard boots)?
Please Help,
Mally
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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mally, where in the UK are you located? It's worth making the effort to get to a really good bootfitter if you have problem feet. I have odd shaped feet and understand your wife's painful experiences having suffered similar myself. There's a lot that a good bootfitter can do, although it takes a bit of time and effort on your part as well to test and tweak things over the course of a few visits to the bootfitter's chair. The current boots I have - one pair by Smallzookeeper based in Chamonix and another by CEM based in Bicester - are the best I've had in terms of being pretty much pain-free.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That's part of the problem, we're located in Jersey! Thanks for reply though may try and visit CEM next time we are in the UK.
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mally, do not dispair. As rob@rar says: you just need someone who understands feet properly.
My daughter Rosie has such high arched feet we were referred to GOS to check she didn't have a neurological problem. She doesn't.
We too had trouble finding a boot that fitted, and went through a number of disasters.
Then last year we went to Profeet (we live in London).
It took half a day, but Rosie now has (for the first time) boots that fit and don't hurt.
Smallzookeeper and CEM are clearly also excellent choices.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mally,
i have not come across many feet that cannot be fitted, sometimes there is a compromise sometimes there is lots of modifcation required
couple of things to hopefully give you a glimer of hope
1 a foam injection liner is IMO probably not going to solve the problem she has, either it does not have a foamed f=tongue or if it does the pressure of the injection process will push down on top of the foot
2 lange boots do not have a particuarily high instep, as to the most suitable boot, impossible to say without seeing the foot but my first bet is it is not a lange [they make great boots but not for all feet]
the key is to find a boot which is close to the shape of the foot then modify it to suit, goinf up in size will only cause her to have to tighten the clips down to hold the foot and the result is as you described
soft boots have all but gone, thsoe that are left are best forgotten
snowboarding is not an option ...YET
good luck
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Mally
My wife had no problem with boots when she was learning, as she got better she realised that she had heel lift and her boots where probably too big. Went to a boot fitter gave her a size smaller, disaster, pretty much as described by you. A solution which seems to have worked so far is putting ther liners from the new smaller boots in the older bigger boots. There is probably a better way but it works for her, she's happy I'm happy.
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Another boot problem woman here! Owned very old-fashioned rear entry Nordicas (bought for £40 in 1991) until last season when the clip broke. They were probably a lot too big by then but I didn't have any comfort problems. Replaced them with the same size new Nordicas which felt fine in the shop and around the house but were absolute agony within two hours of skiing. The pain was mostly around my calves and inner ankles and my toes were completely numb. Loosening the clips didn't help so I ended up with hire boots for the week...
The consensus of opinion is that I should be a size smaller (26) but whenever I try smaller boots on my toes feel very cramped and it's also not easy to find a boot that does up around my fat calves/ankles. The hire boots were a size 26.5 but I suspect the liners were heavily compressed as they felt quite roomy around the ankle and my heels definitely lifted...
There's not really an answer for me as I can't afford expensive new boots and the services of a bootfitter so I'm just going to have to take my chances with hire boots, but it does sound like if your wife has the budget, a good bootfitter should be able to find a solution for her...
Good luck. I very much sympathise on the painful boots scenario having suffered it myself for the first time ever...
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Thanks for encouraging replies everyone, might be a case of addressing the problem by visiting a good fitter while not on holiday skiing so as not to rush the process or feel like your missing out.
For CEM, does this problem seem (difficult without seeing her feet but asking for an educated guess here!) like there is too much pressure on the top of the foot or not enough support or a bit of both?
Cheers Mally
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mally, probably a bit of both, you certainly want to stabilise the foot but the last thing you need is an insole which pushes the foot up any more than it needs to be...arch support is a bad term, foot support is much better, support the foot and the arch will support itself....besides how may arched bridges have you seen with a big pillar in the middle of the arch
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| Quote: |
whenever I try smaller boots on my toes feel very cramped
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The right size boots will definitely feel "very cramped" when you try them on initially. I have recently been through the fitting process with CEM and he warned me this would be the case, when getting me into boots a whole size smaller than my previous (French fitted) ones. They have now been tweaked to accommodate various grotty bits of my feet and are now absolutely perfect. That fitting cost £60, including an extra trip back for an extra bit of tweaking - all part of the service. £60 on avoiding sore feet is surely a price which any keen skier needs to pay, especially if you have problem feet? I'd rather cook my own dinners for a week, and ski all day in 100% comfortable and close-fitting boots, than spend the money on another few plates of tartiflette. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, I totally agree but £60 plus cost of boots plus cost of travel to bootfitter (don't know of any nearby) is probably somewhere over £250. At the moment I'm trying to put by £75 per month to pay for next year's ski trip, plus save £300 to get my motorbike back on the road. If I successfully achieve these two savings (having given up on a social life) I'll see how my budget goes for getting new boots next season. Financial juggling acts, don't ya just love 'em... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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mally, if you can't sort out the current pair, think about going somewhere with a Strolz outlet (Lich is their HQ, but they are in St Anton, Obertauern and no doubt elsewhere in Austria (and possibly in UK). They are semi (or less) made to measure, not hideously pricey (not cheap either, surprise, surprise). They did the trick for my OL who had been moaning about (2 pairs of) boots for years and failed to get them sorted.
If you're in London, Profeet did a good job for me.
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| mally wrote: |
| That's part of the problem, we're located in Jersey! Thanks for reply though may try and visit CEM next time we are in the UK. |
I know the feeling well about being in Jersey. Had to make a trip to the UK last week specially.
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You know it makes sense.
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Did the semi-custom thing with Surefoot...........don't shoot me but how do they compare, if they do compare with Strolz. Do Strolz custom make the shell?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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i used to have very similar _sounding_ problems - always thought it was arches, but what worked in the end was sorting out my ankle flexibility - i was just too short in the tendon for the forward lean on a lot of boots. Straighter boots == 75% less pain. The rest was fixed by a well fitted footbed, a nice wide boot (head edge c104 last) and just giving in, having them a size too big and fitting both a heel lift and a heel restraint to keep my heel down. I know it's not offcially -right- but skiing without pain is so marvellous, I don't care 
Check how far your wife can bend her knee with her heel on the ground to see if she might have a similar problem amongst the other issues?
aj xx
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Poster: A snowHead
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| mally wrote: |
| Did the semi-custom thing with Surefoot...........don't shoot me but how do they compare, if they do compare with Strolz. Do Strolz custom make the shell? |
No, they don't. The shell is, SFAIK, the appropriate one from their range (they offer I think 3 or 4 different types of shell). They measure the hoof all round, take a kind of carbon print of it and so on and make a custom (leather) liner, put it on the foot, into the boot and then fill with foam. The foam sets and hey presto! They offer (at extra cost, natch) a bespoke footbed, but the bloke advised the OL that she didn't need one, and so far, so correct.
What are the Surefoot things like?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the surefoot footbed is made on a system called AMfit, it is a series of pins which move up to find the shape of the foot, the product is then milled from a solid block of eva foam of various densities, the surefoot version is not a true custom product unless they have upgraded the software since i last saw it, the version they have was a cut down version of the full AMfit software which is used by some pedorthists /podiatrists in the US
do they work, well a lot depends on
A how good the tech that does the moulding
B how close your foot matches the pre defined profiles
hope that makes sense
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Snow & Rock do have a large range of ski boots and indeed do sell an awful lot of them, but I would not describe them as excellent for fitting boots, far from it. They tend generally to oversize them, so as to make them feel comfortable initially, but by the time they've packed out, they're too big.
Fitting boots of the correct size generally takes a lot longer, because of the required modifications. S & R just don't have the time or skill to do this.
CEM is a specialist Bootfitter, he sells nothing but Boots, Running Shoes and his skills.
The original poster has a specific problem that I don't believe a store like S & R would have any chance of solving.
Welcome to snowHeads BTW 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Obviously, it depends on one's own experience, but I have bought several pairs of boots from S & R over the years, and each pair has fitted perfectly from the beginning. Only being replaced because they were getting "tatty" and I fancied some new ones! It sounds like CEM would be more likely to sort out the particular problem in question though.
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inskimode, I envy you, I've never had a pair of boots that fit off the shelf. I have a performance, rather than comfort fit in my boots, so my foot is very close to the shell, they always need some sort of modifications to be done to them, before they're wearable.That's why I'd always go to a specialist.
Snow & Rock measured me and wanted to put me in a Mondo 27.5, CEM put me in a 26.0.
Difference is the 27.5 would feel comfortable, because it's too big, the 26.0 is the right size, but would need work to make it comfortable.
The cost of the Boots is the same whether you go to CEM or S & R.
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I've had my boots punched out a bit around the toe and also had some heaters put in them. It made all the difference to me. I broke one of my toes a few years back and it has always given me grief, limiting the amount of time I can spend on the slopes. Last year was the first year I had the heaters and you couldn't get me off the slope!!
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I have the same problem, and nearly gave up skiing on the basis of some bad experiences with rentals. I have head boots, heat-fitted, and they're fantastic. Took a little bit of bedding in, but now I can quite happily wear them from 9am until the end of apres ski, and then walk back - something i couldn't imagine doing previously
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