 Poster: A snowHead
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After yesterdays skiing accident involving Natasha Richardson do you think it should come compulsory to wear a helmet?
I can see insurance companys only insuring you if you have a helmet on.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This article makes interesting reading...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7948778.stm
I still think mandatory helmet wearing for on-piste skiing is complete knee-jerk reaction to a couple of rare but high-profile incidents...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Matt_G, What happened to Natasha R sounds like a freak occurrance and no basis for a helmet debate (much as we all love them).
My main fear while skiing is having someone crash into me. If I'm likely to get any kind of injury I reckon that's how it'll happen. I have looked at trees and rocks close up and deduced that they are harder than my head and other softer bits and would also be harder than any helmet I could buy. Therefore I avoid hitting them. So, the obvious thing to do is to find idiots that cause collisions and have them put to death in the village centre... once we've all finished dinner of course. That might deter others and might mean we can get on with wooly hat skiing.
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helmet wearing in Austria this year was noticeably higher than last year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gortonator, by contrast I saw very few helmet wearers in Courmayeur other than children and off-pisters. There weren't many snowboarders in Courmayeur but they do as a group seem more likely to wear helmets...
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queen bodecia, that's the Italians for ya  . I did some rough counts while waiting at lifts a few times and it was about 50-50 ...
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gortonator, LOL! Maybe helmets haven't yet gotten quite stylish enough for our Italian chums... 
I certainly wouldn't have fancied wearing one last week. I felt like shaving my hair off it was so warm, let alone wear a hat...
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It's been previously heavily discussed, a personal opinion is that what is inside your skull is rather more important in avoidance of head injury than what is outside.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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RIP to Natasha but only time will tell if the tragedy would have occured with or without a helmet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| gortonator wrote: |
| helmet wearing in Austria this year was noticeably higher than last year. |
Agree. At St Anton, on "random straw polls", conducted in lift lines, while sitting on chairs, etc, it seemed that 50+% were wearing helmets. It did not appear that any particular group, ie skier, snowboarder, young, old, were more/less inclined to wear a helmet. The only exception was the perhaps the serious off-piste/BC skiers - very high percentage wearing helmets.
I made the switch this year. Actually did it more for comfortable initially. I found a helmet much more comfortable, than say a hood, on really snowy days. Only had 2 warm days in a month, and then wore sun glasses with the helmet. The additional ventilation, as opposed to goggles, made the helmet quite cool.
Saw the aftermath of a sickening accident - 2 people laying motionless in the snow after an apparent collision. They stayed that way until the helicopter picked them up and one went into a black bag and I could not see his head. They were not wearing helmets. The thing that brought it home was that the collision occurred maybe 50 - 70 metres from the top station of a beginners run, on very flat piste. FFS, how much speed could they have generated to inflict such apparent serious injuries? It showed how easily things can go pear-shaped. 
Despite all that, I would not support legislation to make helmets mandatory. We are over-regulated already. People need to make up their own minds, act accordingly, and take responsibility for their actions.
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I think it might become compulsory in Quebec. Doctors had recently called for it. This year they made winter tyres complusory in Quebec- it caused a shortage all over canada.
Gryph
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You know it makes sense.
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yep - compulsory unlikely to happen. Give it 10 years, it'll just happen naturally ... apart from in Italy
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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One big thing to consider is the suing culture that is now starting to sweep accross europe from the states and the uk...
If lift companies' liabilities come into question then stronger regulation will be the next step.
There was that piste basher accident (can't remember where) and the family sued, there has just been one out here as well (court case will probably come)...
Someone will generate a winning claim through court in connection to not wearing a helmet.... don't know how, where or when but it will happen and when it does; helmets for everyone!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Don't think a helmet would neccessarily help you if you skied into a piste basher,.... but I'm sure there are incidences where wearing a helmet is safer than not wearing one.... I've thought about buying one for the last 3 or 4 years but now I think I'm gonna invest.... as long it's got the "tunes" upgrade!!! Just have to get a tan whilst sitting outside a restaurant!
I noticed that virtually every instructor was wearing one in Zell am See this year, compared to probably 50% last season... even the instructors on the nurseries were wearing them to walk about in ski boots with absolute beginners.... not sure if this was a directive from the ski schools so "set an example"????? If so, not a bad example to set.
Whether they should be compulsorary or not is a different matter..... seems a bit ironic to ban skiing without helmets in, say, Austria, "because its dangerous" then allow people to chuff away on Marlboro's 24/7 in the restaurants..... no of fatalities from smoking related illness v no of fatalisteis from skiing without a helmet??????
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes, noticeably higher incidence of helmet wearing in Austria this year. And you don't have to ski into a tree or be hit by another skier to hit your head - as I've said previously, the OH had a silly fall onto a hard piste last week and whacked his head hard enough to leave him unconscious for a few minutes, even with a helmet on. It's very frightening to turn round and see someone dear to you lying motionless on the ground - I'm just so pleased I wasn't waiting at the bottom of the piste for him wondering where he was...
We've been helmet wearers for a good few years - definitely wouldn't go out now without one.
It may well be that it won't become illegal not to wear one, but perhaps insurance companies in the future may not pay up on head injuries if you haven't taken 'reasonable precautions' - that may include wearing a helmet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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BBC News just had an article with a girl from Ski Club of GB and a journo talking about helmets being compulsorary.... consensus seemed to be its a personal choice unless you're under 15/14/13 then it should be compulsorary...
Rather worryingly my wifes school were in Zell at half terms whilst we were there and not a single child (ages 12-16) had a helmet on... there was a broken thumb, two twisted knees, a split lip, and a mild care of hypothermia, so I suppose you'd say they were lucky... Having said that if I was running a schools trip with responsibility for 26 of somebody elses kids it would be a case of "no helmet, no ski"!!!
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| Quote: |
yep - compulsory unlikely to happen. Give it 10 years, it'll just happen naturally ... apart from in Italy
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Wasn't italy the first (and only???) place to make it mandatory for under 15's to wear helmets?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In my teens and early 20s I used to do a lot of cycling, competing at national level. The same discussions were going on then about helmets on bikes and back then the only helmets reeadily available were the thin leather strap affairs!
What changed my opinion on the subject was waking up with a fractured skull in hospital - I believe from misjudging a turn and sliding under a parked car. I was VERY lucky to still be here - from talking to various people, chances are I would have just had a sore head if I had been wearing a helmet.
Needless to say I bought one very soon after.
With skiing I did not wear one at first, until I started snowboarding at Tamworth and realised the potential for screwing up my heel turn and having a long fall back. Purchased one straight away and have worn it ever since for skiing and boarding.
I personally would never not wear one now - I would like to see them compulsory for children who IMV still have softer/growing heads and of course are at the right height to get the odd bash from adults. Adults - lets say 16 here - should be a matter of choice for recreational skiing.
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SnowGod, yes I believe so, but adult helmet-wearing seemed rare in Courmayeur last week. Pretty sure I didn't see any ski instructors wearing helmets (maybe a couple of the snowboard instructors did), and the noticeable groups of helmet-wearers were all clearly not Italian. However the pistes were also largely empty and I saw only a couple of 'incidents' the entire week. Let's not all blow things out of proportion due to a tragic but freak accident to a famous person...
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This is just my personal opinion, which can be totally wrong for general public, but still... here we go Lately I have been skiing or "skiing" without helmet quite a lot. Normally when I go to WC races (as photographer) I don't take helmet with me, since there's no need for helmet, when I'm just sliding down the course with gear in my backpack. But sometimes, there's some extra time, so I get hour or two of skiing. These times, I just ski without helmet and with "normal" sunglasses not ski goggles, because I simply don't have goggles and helmet with me those times.
So now when WC season is over, I have finally time to really go skiing for real. So last week I took my helmet, goggles, my GS skis and went out skiing, and just for fun I also put gps in my pocket. First run out of parking lot made me feel really weird. Ski course was completely empty (I was by far first skier on course), freshly done, hard and icy, just the way I like it, and I had feeling, that I'm really slow, yet it felt really bumpy and unstable. When I was going up with lift, I took gps out of pocket and I was really surprised when I saw maximum speed was 98km/h for that run... and it was first run, which is for me normally much slower then those runs I do after first hour or so.
Now what has all this to do with helmet, right? A lot. Like I said, I was skiing quite lot last few months without helmet. I got used to wind and feeling of speed without helmet and goggles. When I put helmet and goggles on, it kinda made bubble around me, so at least some feeling of speed was missing, it gives you some sort of feeling safe etc. So sometimes helmets are not really all that great. People do things they wouldn't do otherwise, because they have feeling nothing can happen to them. Of course I'm not saying helmets are bad. I still ski with helmets, I still go on bike with helmet, and I always hope, I will never need any of them, but just in case, I wear them. Just like I buy insurance for car and apartment, and hope I will never need them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oddly my helmet makes me feel like I'm going faster when in fact I'm travelling slowly, because there's more wind noise from the venting around my ears than I get from a woolly beanie.
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I never wore a helmet until I bought some new skiis and after years of family skiing got back into some pace....
But....I wear a helmet on a motorbike, on a bicycle - why? Mostly because of the other idiots out there - what does prove not wearing a helmet until its too late?
If your skiing is about your hair and your tan, stay in the restaurant, enjoy, but don't clog the slopes for the rest of us.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The last research I read on cycle helmets was that they greatly increase the chance of breaking your neck, owing to potential torsional forces; and they offer scant protection in the event of an impact at speed.
The assistance to safety is entirely psychological... and the net result is that you ride/ski more dangerously.
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That's totally believable.
But going back to the beginning of the thread, would a helmet have saved Natasha Richardson on the nursery slope, in this case? Is it better to break your neck or suffer(die from) the head injury?
Is it better to keep minor accidents minor and not ruin your holiday with avoidable concussion or worse, or do you try and protect people from the big accidents?
I think I wear mine to protect myself from other people and minor accidents, and am under no illusions that it would save me in a bad accident - for a start there is no jaw protection, even a full motorcycle helmet is only good in minor accidents.
Skiing/boarding is dangerous, that's half the buzz.
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You know it makes sense.
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I sometimes think you should be taught how to fall when you learn to ski. Granted in a high speed or step tumble it will do sweet FA. However on the minor falls side, these freak ones on a nursery slope with little speed where the head bounces off the floor, I think, and this is based on nothing concrete just a musing, that if you try and fight the fall until the last you end up in a vulnerable position. If you were taught how to fall, when you feel yourself going and think it's not recovorable then let yourself go and get into a position to protect yourself/take the fall. This kind of teaching may well help stop alot of the minor incidents. I was taught to take hits playing rugby so I tend to let myself go and take the hit on the slope. The same applies in kayaking if you start to go over in the middle of a rapid it's often better to let yourself go and get into a strong defensive position/roll set up than to brace until the very last and end up upside down in a rocky rapid in a weak and exposed position. Sorry for the ramble!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well I'm off with my 9 year old daughter to Risoul this Sunday for a week. We both have 6 half days of esf tuition and let me just say BOTH of us will be wearing helmets. Why expect our children to wear helmets if we don't set the example ourselves?
If by wearing a helmet it only slightly improves your chances of reducing head injury against not wearing one then it's just common sense to wear one isn't it? i would say it's simular to not wearing a seat belt in a car, yes i'm a good driver and i've never had a serious accident but I still wear one everytime i drive, i don't know what idiot i will come across on my journey who could crash into me or cause me to make a quick decision that could turn out to be the wrong one.
In answer to the original post: will it become compulsary? I think maybe 10 years or so from now almost certainly, i'm surprised the EU safety bigwigs in Brussels haven't done anything yet to be honest and it'll only be a matter of time before we look like a bunch of michelin men skiing down the mountain in full protective bodywear! but on a serious note, i think within time helmets will become compulsary.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Which question were we supposed to answer? "do you think it should be compulsory to wear a helmet?" or "Do you think it will be compulsory?"
To which I'd probably answer No and Yes.
James the Last, I get more neck ache riding with than without, presumably more from extra wind resistance at the highest leverage point from the uppermost vertebrae. So if I'm forced to wear a helmet either by law or for compliance with insurance and suffer neck injury or long-term damage as a result, then I will sue for compensation or gladly join a class action.
With their current design, they can't stop the kind of injury where the skull is rapidly decelerated due to impact, but the brain keeps moving due to momentum. The problem is with people that buy them thinking they will be more invincible, and people that are not skiers/boarders/cyclists assuming that a helmet will stop/reduce all kinds of injury.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I totally agree with mjs. Having played rugby from a young age I learned to fall and it was noticeable at uni that less experienced players often picked up more injuries. Being willing to take a sacrificial fall when you realise that one is inevitable can really save you.
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I have gotten over my "it will mess up my hair" phobia and ALWAYS wear my helmet. Mainly after getting thumped on the head my a chairlift. I like my head the way it is, if a helmet offers a modicum of protection then im all for it.
St Anton - LOTS of ppl had helmets and an awful lot had the full avalanche gear backpacks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| James the Last wrote: |
The last research I read on cycle helmets was that they greatly increase the chance of breaking your neck, owing to potential torsional forces; and they offer scant protection in the event of an impact at speed.
The assistance to safety is entirely psychological... and the net result is that you ride/ski more dangerously. |
I don't believe that for one minute.
I have bought a helmet this season, but not yet used it (my only trip of the season starts the day after tomorrow ).
Will it make me feel a bit safer? Yes, of course it will.
Will it make me ski any differently? Of course not, since the main parts of me I am trying to protect when skiing will not be helped in the slightest by a helmet - unless I wear it on my knees!
Leg injuries are by far the most common skiiing injuries, followed by arms & ribs IME, and a helmet will not help any of those, so I will certainly be making no less attempts to avoid falling than in the past, and I can't believe many others will either. If you were wearing full body armour as well, then it would be much more likely to affect the way you ski, but most of us don't do that, unless we are doing jumps and tricks or similar.
The helmet helps in that it reduces the risk even further of injuring a part of me that has low risk but high consequence.
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Maybe it's a speed thing. I consciously do not ski faster than I can run. Probably just a confidence thing, but I also wouldn't wear a helmet when running and I don't when skiing. I don't see myself ever willingly skiing any faster or off piste, but if I did I'd possibly review my decision not to wear a helmet...
I do ride a bicycle on occasions and on the road I always wear a helmet. Off-road I tend not to, I'm travelling far slower and the landing is softer. It's just a question of being sensible and personal choice...
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The helmet debate may bore us but this morning it had escalated to the "heady" levels of the Radio 5 big phone in debate. The only snippet I caught indicated that most helmet users are hypocritical in that they are not uniform in wearing them across activities. I'd happily include myself in this.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
I have gotten over my "it will mess up my hair" phobia and ALWAYS wear my helmet. Mainly after getting thumped on the head my a chairlift. I like my head the way it is, if a helmet offers a modicum of protection then im all for it.
St Anton - LOTS of ppl had helmets and an awful lot had the full avalanche gear backpacks. |
I'm pretty tall 6ft 3 and love the helmet for all the thumpings from a chairlift I'm saved (or at least don't feel). don't think it should be mandatory but suspect in the states and canada it may become so. don't think this will happen for some time to come in europe.
I think its likely that the position may become influenced for UK skiers by ski insurance.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dan100 wrote: |
I think its likely that the position may become influenced for UK skiers by ski insurance. |
I think this could well be the case- will be an interesting test of concern for wallet v libertarianism. The worst possible thing is if all these things become "law" then a whole buereaucracy evolves around standards, rules, enforcement etc etc
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Is it such a bad thing if helmets do become compulsary, whether by law or to validate insurance?
Nobody really batted an eyelid when it happened with motorbikes in the UK, and the few that did soon got used to it..... same witth seat belts...
I think we'd all like the choice as to whether we wear one or not, mainly because we don't like being told what to do.... but at the end of the day, if one of our children got killed in an accident when away on a school ski trip whilst not wearing a helmet we'd be looking for someone to blame rather than sitting there saying, "well it was his / her choice not to wear one".....
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FAQ
