Have been reading some old posts about skiing in powder and think I am in the same boat as some.
I am a reasonably competent/confident on piste skier, fine on reds and can get down rather than ski blacks. However, when it comes to skiing in powder I am completely useless!
Having had some of the best conditions to practice in recently, I quickly provided endless photo/camcorder moments regularly ending up either face planting or just half buried in the stuff. Now, I don't have a problem with providing the family entertainment value on holiday but as we are going back in a few weeks time I would dearly love to be able to improve in this area (providing there is still lots of powder left). On the odd occasion things have gone right for a brief moment there is nothing quite like it.
Too often, when I'm in the powder I find my legs start to have minds of their own and end up going in different directions, or I just seem unable to turn/stop without some sort of misshap! I have read lots of interesting advice which I will try to remember but was wondering if anyone can recommend a dvd which may be particularly useful? Or is it just a case of getting out there and practicing and it will come good in time?
Thanks for any help.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Practice skiing on piste first with your legs unfashionably close together, trying to keep your weight distribution as even as possible across both skis. Warren Smith DVDs are good and have plenty of advice for powder skiing. Have you got some fashionably fat skis too? They do make it a lot easier.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
uktrailmonster, Thanks for that - will look out the dvd's. Ski's should be able to cope with the powder - sadly i don't think I can blame them!
Keeping your legs together will help immensely, but as long as you can control them independently you can ski with them apart.
The big thing that will help, from watching my friend struggle to graps it, is to slow down your movements. My pal approched powder like a tough piste: traverse all the way across, then a quick turn and repeat in the other direction. Unfortunately each quick turn was inevitably followed by a fall (i'll dig out the amusing GIF we made an upload it to he snowmediazone later).
Stay on the fall line, and allow your skis to turn (together) to one side, as you begine to slow down lean your knees over to the other direction and allow your skis to come round again. DO NOT turn your feet or try to skid your tails out unless you have thighs of steel
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
loatie, I found, much as uktrailmonster says, that you need to ski with feet closer together, both legs moving in synch and with weight on both skis. The old "weight on outside" ski won't help, cos if you unweight a ski it will get a mind of its own and wander off.
loatie, I've been aspiring to this over the past couple of seasons. It is really just practice. Tips that I have been given that help - keep in the fall line because you need to be turning not traversing. Feet together, even your weight on both skis. Keep your arms still and in the correct position. Try to find a gentle slope. Practice short turns on piste and get your position perfect. I think to ski powder you have to have a more quiet and gentle feel, if that makes sense. I'm no expert, but I can ski down a reasonable slope now. Oh - hire some fatter skis - whole lot easier!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
It's easiest to learn powder skiing on a fairly shallow slope you can comfortably straight line. But it needs to be steep enough not to grind to a halt! Really deep powder slows you down massively, but beginners tend not to compensate enough for this effect and try to turn too sharply as they would on a fast piste of the same gradient. End result is either grinding to a halt or, more often, going over the bars as the skis dig in too much.
So find a nice easy gradient with some lovely fresh deep powder and set off in a dead straight line, concentrating on your position and weight over each ski. Once you find a good even balance start off making some really shallow turns in the fall-line. Half the battle is getting a feel for the deep snow. The more you ski it, the more natural it becomes. Once you start to get a good feeling for the snow, try it on a steeper pitch.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I caused a lot of amusement by returning to the chalet and complaining bitterly about the ghastly loose snow.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
loatie, recognise your situation. I pretty much sorted it out in Feb on my last trip. I was working so hard on keeping feet going the same way, distributing weight evenly, extending legs at the right time, etc etc etc that I forgot one important thing - I CAN ski. I was basically making it all too hard and thinking too much.
The secret I discovered was just to focus on something OTHER than my legs and feet (such as arm position, or just a point down the slope where you're heading) and let your muscle memory take care of the legs. Oh yes, deep joy! Now I'm just hoping I don't have to wait another 3 years for fresh snow to coincide with a ski hol.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
Now I'm just hoping I don't have to wait another 3 years for fresh snow to coincide with a ski hol.
Hear hear!!! Off to Lech in April and am sitting here looking at the Webcams now... powder heaven!!!!! Zell at half term was great too, although too much avalanche danger to anywhere interesting...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Great advice everyone - thank you so much - only 3 1/2 weeks before I can hopefully put it into practice.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
go faster, turn slower
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
I forgot one important thing - I CAN ski. I was basically making it all too hard
This is important IMV. I still make it hard work for myself because I'm a coward, but it's coming on leaps and bounds. Achieving the equilibrium between balance and speed was and is the issue for me - the more I do the better it gets and the easier it all becomes
Quote:
The old "weight on outside" ski won't help, cos if you unweight a ski it will get a mind of its own and wander off.
I disagree somewhat. One of the troubles I was having initially, the "how do I actually turn" issue, was that I was aiming for - and probably achieving - too close to 50/50 weighting. Marc is right that the inside ski, IM very inexperienced O, needs more weight than it does on piste, or it goes off on its own adventure, but otherwise the technique you use to ski ordinarily should work just as well in powder. Providing you don't rush things (my besetting sin). Remember the cover of the Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy - "Don't Panic"
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Get some brightly coloured ones. We had two long breaks digging around for Monsieur's white skis, whereas my fluoro ones can be seen glowing through several inches of snow
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
firebug, That's a good point actually - I am a bit wary about losing my skis which is probably another reason why I am not all that relaxed in the powder. My skis are black so I don't have an issue colour wise but one time when one of my skis came off it was only about 3 feet from me but totally buried and took a while to find. I'm thinking of attaching some sort of strong elastic to my boots and skis!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
loatie wrote:
I'm thinking of attaching some sort of strong elastic to my boots and skis!
Not recommended. You want your ski to come off and away. But searching for skis is a pain. Get some streamers. These are long thin rolls of tape that you attach to your skis and (normally) stick the other end in the bottom of your trousers. If your skis come off then you just follow the tape to your skis, don't forget you need 2
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Action shot as prmoised
And as Wayne suggests streamers (or Powder Traces as they're sometimes known) are what you need if you;re worried about losing your skis. Clip them on to your bindings, tuck them under your gaiter and away you go.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
nbt wrote:
And as Wayne suggests streamers (or Powder Traces as they're sometimes known) are what you need if you;re worried about losing your skis. Clip them on to your bindings, tuck them under your gaiter and away you go.
I really should get to know all these techinal terms
PS - Heavy thick snow falling right now in Wigan (and can't find my Streamers, so best stay in-doors)
Snowsnakes, little blighters will always trip you up. Also know as scrits (in my happy little world..)
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The legs closer together advice really did it for a friend of mine in a similar position to you a few weeks ago.
As he said, practice is all very well, its just finding the stuff to do it on. Fortunately early Jan in Les Arcs gave us miles of untracked stuff and at least 2 1/2 days of glorious fluffy stuff.
His comment at the end of the first day? "NOW I know why you guys rave about powder - its always been hard work and a mystery to me, but today has been the best day of my (skiing) life!"
Which he then re-iterated on day 2...
After all it is free
After all it is free
Legs together like you are holding a tennis ball between them will help alot.
Also try to ski more fall line, if you try to angle your skis too much and travers it makes it harder. Im not saying you have to charge but you cant slide your skis down the slope because they are likely to dig. Face DOWN the slope and make smaller turns.
I know these guys are pros but watch how they turn their skis with their body still facing down the slope and try to do the same.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
loatie, All the above. Also try and get the technique down on easy ground then apply it in the powder, plus take every opportunity to straight run at the side of the piste, and get a feel for it by bouncing along. A critical point for me was learning to sink into the turns to release the increasing pressure.
The bad news is all this advice wont help much, its time on the job that will improve your powder skiing and that's hard to come by. There is also stamina/fitness/acclimatisation issues, many skiers can do 2 or 3 reasonable turns then lose it because their legs are tired and they are also putting in way more effort than needed.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
sps89, omg - i can't believe what those guys are doing!! how fantastic - i will try to make sure this inspires me and also remember the tennis ball technique! thanks
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
FWIW I did a powder course a few weeks ago, just one day, but we started out practising side slipping, falling leaf, 360s, short turns, all on piste. This seemed to get us into the feel of less edging and keeping strictly parallel. That's not to say a handy stem won't help occasionally, but making sure your legs are co-ordinated when parallel might help prevent one ski doing its own thing
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Probably a silly question, but does developing your skills in powder and off piste genreally help your on-piste skills?
Powder skiing is something I wish to improve in the future. I sound like quite a few people on here, skiing like I was on a piste with sharp turns which ended up with me on the floor. Couldn't find much gentle terrain to introduce myself to it. I picked up too much speed, which then led to trying to treverse.
Thank you for tips next year, I will let the skis run, keeping them closer together with relaxed turns. Hopefully that'll work.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Christopher wrote:
... does developing your skills in powder and off piste genreally help your on-piste skills?
Yes, IMO. And vice versa.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Wayne, I reckon powder leashes are a good idea. I'll tale the risk of a bang on the head against the time spent gathering the skis (remember, you may have to walk a long way uphill - even if you haven't tumbled far, in a forward fall you may propel your skis a good way uphill) plus wrapping up the cords.
jbob, "getting a feel for it" exactly right, the phrase used when I was learning the powder basics was that you were "making a contract" with the snow.
Christopher, yes, definitely.
loatie, go with the flow, relax into it (but not too much)...
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Fatter skis (95+ underfoot), straighter turns, if you're worried about loosing a ski crank up the DIN on your bindings a bit.
However if you're going to stick with narrow skis & try it frenchy style then keep your feet reasonably close together. In deep powder you will have to do the opposite of normal & lean back to initiate the turn (you can't turn effectively when your tips are under the snow). Once the turn has been initiated you need to lean forward slightly to bring it back around. When this comes together you'll end up with a bouncing type motion as you go down the hill.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
For someone who knows little about ski equipment.
I just go down the hire shop and get a half decent pair of carving skis.
How easy are 'trendy' fatter skis to turn on the piste?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 4-03-09 20:08; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Christopher wrote:
For someone who knows little about ski equipment.
I just go down the hire shop and get a half decent pair of carving skis.
How do these 'trendy' fatter skis behave upon the piste?
Lots of comments about fat v. thin here. A ski with a bigger surface area helps in deep snow because it offers more "float", so turns are a bit easier to manage and link.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
if you're worried about loosing a ski crank up the DIN on your bindings a bit.
If you're worried about losing a knee ligament, don't crank up your DIN! - Powder traces are pretty cheap and convenient, and frankly I value my knees more than my skis. Also, a low-speed twisting fall (not uncommon in powder) in which the skis stay on is going to do more damage than a double-ejection an face-plant. (I know from experience )
Like everyone above says, speed is your friend: start off with a bit of a straight-line to build up some speed: you need this to help the skis plane up from beneath the surface, and build resistance for your turns. Then RELAAAAAAX. The nice thing about falling in powder is that (i) it doesn't hurt too much and (ii) provides everyone else with a good laugh.
loatie, not much to add except, for me, pole planting helps to get me in the right position in my boots. Stick with it as powder skiing is for me, the ultimate skiing experience.
A couple of pictures of me taken yesterday in 25-30cms of fresh.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Skiing in powder is a wonderful experience. I was out at the beginning of February with my fiancee who hasn't skied too much before but she picked it up extremely well. The technique can easily be over-analysed, but basically you just need to keep your feet close together, lean backwards and make smooth, long turns.
Keeping feet together prevents individual skis wandering off or catching the powder equivalent of an inside edge. Leaning backwards puts more weight on the back of your skis, allowing the front to 'float' up through the snow as you progress forwards and lifting you through the snow. You need to make smooth, long turns as it is virtually impossible to do what can be done on-piste and lift your ski up to place it elsewhere, or to jump a turn, as your skis are under quite a bit of snow which can be heavy!
Then when it gels it is a feeling akin to flying! I would guess, me not actually being a bird or other entity capable of sustained flight ...
By the way, I was on 86mm mid-fats but my fiancee was on standard rental carvers (68mm waist IIRC), and she absolutely loved the day. If the piste's steep enough you'll be able to ski it on standard skis very easily - you won't need off-piste specials to experience the fun!
After all it is free
After all it is free
mfj197, you're a brave man, that's for sure
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
loatie, much as above:
1) Legs together - pretend you are standing on a tray or a mono-ski.
2) Do things slowly - as snatching > legs apart > uphill > fall.
3) Breathe at least once each turn - keep a rhythm going.
4) Turn as often but go less away from the fall line.
5) Don't lean back unless either it is quite stodgy - or you are already at speed and floating well.
6) More up and down unweighting can help you get shorter turns going - although looks a bit old-school.
7) Pretend there is someone down the hill videoing you - and look at them
Hands forward
9) Enjoy
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Now I'm just hoping I don't have to wait another 3 years for fresh snow to coincide with a ski hol.
