 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Les Saises
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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if you can afford it then oberlech is hard to beat. Mostly heated seats which are slowed down for every kid and each lifty gives a helping hand if required. Great toboggan run too and skiing great for the kids. Absolutely plenty of skiing in the arlberg to keep mum and dad happy. Austrian ski schools tend to be all day affairs so plenty of time for you to explore. If oberlech too pricy we found stuben along the road half the price as equivelant hotel in oberlech and whilst it doesn't have the ski in ski out convenience of oberlech we found it a great base for a family ski trip. Ski school was dead too - max of 6 kids for the whole week but very often only 3/4 kids in group
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sainte Foy. Quiet (even at peak holiday times), great for kids, big wide runs, good ski school, all chairlifts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Les Gets/Morzine 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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stevomcd, Beat me to it - plus compact village, everything within a couple of hundred yards at most. Pretty much ski-in, ski-out.....
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Courchevel 1650 (cheaper than 1850) or La Tania if they can cope with a bubble and chair to get over to the widest runs I've found in the alps!
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Skimummy, I read your other thread about what next for a 3 and 5 year old and now this, without a doubt Puy St Vincent with Snowbizz especially given you want to drive too. www.snowbizz.co.uk . I am just back from a week there and will post a review soon but basically for ticking every possible box with kids I reckon it is hard to beat.
The real jewel in the crown is that they run their own ski school in resort, are extremely client focussed and are absolutely committed to your kids being happy skiers and making good progress. My son is just turned 4, he had been skiing an hour every saturday morning at the CFe for the past 3 months, but this was his first week away really after we had a bad experience with the ESF in January which meant he didn't ski much at all. Anyway he was able to join the Juniors as he could snowplough turn rather than be stuck in the Jardin(as he would have been with other operators based purely on his age) and he made great progress and got his Cristal badge, I am having a proud mummy moment  . The classes were small, exclusively for their clients and so all the kids got to know each other as there were other activities for them such as the evening Kiddie Club. My son had an absolute ball and so of course so did we! They are very flexible and would keep your kids together if you wanted although with their set up your kids might be happy to go in different groups as they would make other friends easily anyway.
It's a great little area, very sunny and safe, loads of chairs serving nice greens and blues. There is a bowl up top too. And good reds too including Bois des Coqs which is quiet and varied and challenging in parts too. Ski pass free to age 6 AFAIK. Some bumps on the blacks in the bowl. Bars are all along the snow front so you can sit out and watch the kids playing. I was so impressed with the whole Snowbizz setup and the resort.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Skimummy, I would say La Tania or 1650 in the 3Vs as the runds are wide, lots of gondolas rather than drags and our kids have always felt safe there
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Les Gets seems very well set up for young kids. Lots of family friendly chalet operators, lovely gentle blue pistes and a nice child zone on the slopes with a Native American Indian theme (should we say Red Indians any more?)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Alpe d'Huez would work - large bowl, loads of greens, sunny, plus pool included in liftpass
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Skimummy, If you would like any more info on Alpe d'Huez please get in touch. It could be ideal for you!
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Risoul
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You know it makes sense.
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The two resorts we have been to with children of a similar age to yours were Puy St Vincent (snow bizz) and La Rosiere - Eucharts area.
I agree with Sarah that the Snow Bizz set up in Puy is excellent and good value compared with other child friendly operators. I would definitely give them a go for one holiday. Unfortunately they only work in one resort and get very booked up for school hols so we had to look at other options this year.
This year we went to La Rosiere and found the skiing great for us (fun going over to La Thuile) - excellent intermediate skiing. Our 6 yr old made good progress in the ESF lessons and there were several easy blues for him to ski down. As we went in school hols they had enough English children to make up a group. I felt the ESF set up wasn't as good for the younger child (age 3) as the piou piou club was 2 1/2 hrs and it was freezing weather and she spent too long standing around not doing much skiing. I think the snow bizz set up for the 3/4 yr olds is good as they just do an hours skiing followed by the creche. I think once your youngest is around 5 the ESF is a good option (obviously slightly luck of the drawer as to the instructor your child gets). The thing we loved at La Rosiere apart from the skiing of course was that we could get to it easily by train and we stayed in wonderful accommodation - Cimes blanches appartments in Les Eucharts area. There was a lovely swimming pool complex and we really enjoyed a swim, bubble pool experience etc at the end of the day. I was really quite unfit this year but I think the swimming helped my leg muscles as I had no pain while skiing at all!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for all the ideas - I'll have a look at the various places in my lunch break. We prefer to travel independently so wouldn't use Snow Bizz but will take a look at Puy.
snowymum, Will ESF insist my then 4 year old goes in Piou Piou club. She skis down happily linking her snowplough turns. She even went down the 7km Marvel run in Morillon with only one stop (nearly killed me in a snowplough) I don't think she'd be happy going up and down the magic carpet.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Skimummy, (having skied with them myself, and seen them on the hill) I wouldn't trust the ESF with my dog. and I don't have one. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Skimummy, I wouldn't rull out snowbizz yet - I can't recommend them (yet) as we haven't been (going next year!) but they are flexible on travel options. You can either fly with them or do your own thing. Worth looking into and getting a brochure.
Sarah - great to hear you had a great time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Another vote for Les Saisies. Ticks all the boxes, except English speaking groups for kids. But private lessons are good value.
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ski mummy - we travelled independently when we went with Snow Bizz. I hate flying so we booked the train (Eurostar plus sleeper) and got a taxi from the bottom of the mountain (snow bizz did kindly book this for us). If you want to go by train look at the self drive prices and take off £100 (although you would then need to add train cost) or if you want to self drive there is a price on the website. The only thing you have to book through snow bizz is the accomodation which is in an appartment block at the foot of the piste. If you don't want to use the Snowbizz lessons it probably isn't worth going with them but I think their lessons were good. The creche is optional...you don't need to use it at all or can book it for the odd afternoon, whereas some other companies do not offer this flexibility.
If you don't like the look of snow bizz I wouldn't particularly recommend Puy..it is not the most extensive resort...we liked it because we found Snow Bizz very good and their set up suited our needs completely.
If your youngest child can already do linked snow ploughs she wouldn't be in piou piou with ESF (my Daughter was 3 and still wanting to go straight down without doing a snow plough or turn!). I think your child would be in Ourson with the ESF or possibly Flocon. My six year old did flocon this time and was only in the nursery area for the first morning. If you are interested in looking at La Rosiere you do not have to use the ESF. There is another smaller company there (sorry can't remember their name - evolution maybe?). Axsman surely it is a bit harsh to judge the whole ESF on one instructor? There are probably resorts where they are better than others. I would use them again in La Rosiere Eucharts as by the time we next go the youngest will be school age and in Ourson rather than Piou piou.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I think your child would be in Ourson with the ESF or possibly Flocon.
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I ended up going up chairlifts twice with the same ESF child yesterday - in Ourson. He told me he was a good skier (a question I always ask these kids, as my French is too limited for a very complicated conversation) and had even passed Piou Piou and Flocon in one week! However, he had clearly not mastered getting on - or off - chairlifts. Both times he needed major steering and lifting and shoving from me, to get him off in a straight line. The second time I was more prepared, and had given my poles to my OH (thankfully the child didn't have any, as he'd probably have had my eye out if not his own). It's a bit worrying the way the kids get shoved into the lift queue; I would have hated to drop or hurt the kid, but frankly it took a fair bit of skill and balance to get him off in one piece and the instructor who put him on didn't have the slightest idea whether I could ski or not. It also takes a bit of nerve - and a quick response in French - to indicate that you DON'T want to take a child along. This morning we stopped beside an Ourson kids flopped in a heap in the snow, with another, possibly big brother, with him. Their instructor waiting some way down the slope with the rest, shouting at them. The one on the ground was sobbing and the other little one was too small to help. We picked the lad up, and disentangled his skis and the other one was extremely polite and grateful (I was impressed; he was only about 6) I know that instructors can't keep picking them up, but it was quite cold, and they were just not budging. I was also impressed that the lad still on his feet had stayed with his mate, or brother, despite being yelled at by the instructor. It does sometimes seem harsh. I'd be a bit reluctant to put an English speaking child in a wholly French group - though my 5 year old daughter managed fine in an entirely German speaking group (except that she complained the others were all "babies" as it was the very beginners group). Depends on the child, I suppose but some of the ESF groups are huge, especially in school hols.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Skimummy, you can be as independant as you like travelling with Snowbizz, do the self drive and book the apartment with them. Then you get to put your kids in a top quality ski school, with exclusive classes of other english speaking kids. You don't have to do any of their other stuff at all. However if you don't want their ski school then I agree with snowymum, there is not much point going to Puy as you can go other places, you go to Puy for Snowbizz.
No, the ESF will not insist on your child going into Piou Piou, they will most happily take her into a class of 20 odd other 3 and 4 year old Oursons who will be mostly french ( I have now seen this twice in 2 different resorts this season and I will look at Easter to see it happen again). Given you originally said she would not want to be separated from her sibling then this type of class set up may not suit.
I agree with Axsman and I wouldn't let my young child go with the ESF in such a huge group. I am not sure they even know how many kids they have half the time and if the last one drops off the back of the line the instructor is a long way away. I reckon the ESF are good with older kids at higher levels. At this stage if you have a choice pick an ESI ski school where class sizes are capped, e.g. Evo 2 in La Rosiere.
Other options for quality ski school would be a resort where Magic do their 'Little Ones' programme so Meribel, Courchevel not sure if any others. Also Eskimos in Saas Fee looks to be very good indeed.
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sarah, glad you like the skis! Your story reminds me of a similar occasion, when I took the first two of a group of ESF kids up a nursery chair. There was nobody else in sight. They were pretty competent kids, and although they had been told to wait for the instructor, they were very restless at having to wait around and showed every sign of wanting to ski off, much to our alarm. We stayed with them - could hardly leave two lively little kids on their own; at least we could make sure that they didn't set off on their own in defiance of their instructors instructions. My brother in law, feeling sorry for them, made the mistake of offering them a sweet - they had obviously been warned about strange men offering sweets and shook their heads in horror, making him feel very foolish. Eventually a family group turned up and were able to split up and bring up the others - all rather unsatisfactory.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Okay - you've all managed to put me off ever sending the kids to ski school. They both managed chairlifts really well with us this year but both needed lifting on and little one needed lifting off at the top. The idea of either of them getting left behind by an instructor with 20+ kids to worry about horrifies me. I might have to look at private lessons for them whilst they're still tiny. I did really enjoy skiing with them this year but I think hubby would have liked to have done a bit more 'proper' skiing so a couple of hours freedom here and there would be good.
sarah,
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Given you originally said she would not want to be separated from her sibling
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It's the older one who wouldn't want to go without his little sister 
I will take a look at Snowbizz. I'm just so used to DIY (for all types of holiday, not just skiing) I hadn't really considered anything else.
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Skimummy, sorry.  Most kids evidently survive... however for tinies, especially non French ones, I would go private. We met two families who came here with small kids (having put a similar question on Snowheads, a couple of years ago). They used the local independent ski school for either 3 or 4 kids (can't remember) for two hours a day. It was a huge success; the children loved her and got on really well, doing stuff like skiing backwards (so they could show off to their mums after lesson). The lessons here make that very affordable. It's 52 euros (out of school hols, a little more in the hols) for 2 hours for up to 2 people, and extras don't cost a fortune. The compact size of the village makes dropping and meeting kids very easy, and there are plenty of easy options served either by chairs or by easy drags. The only problem the two families had is that they couldn't get their first choice of accommodation, as it was a busy period, and although they were in a "ski in/ski out" location the green run down into the village wasn't one which completely inexperienced small kids could manage on the first couple of days, so they had to drive round to the ski school meeting place. A joint holiday with two families is probably the ideal - so that you don't always absolutely have to be there to drop and pick up the kids.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Skimummy, sorry too but better you know how the ESF can operate. You don't need to go private but just choose an independant ski school ESI as they have small classes. If you do go private they are not too bad either the Snowbizz school was 39E/hour.
We almost always travel independantly for all holidays and last week with Snowbizz was the first time I had used an operator for ages and I was really pleasantly surprised. They are such a small company that the level of service they offer is really exceptional and really personal. For me the main reason for booking was similar to yours, I had a very young child who could already snowplough turn with very good control and use a button, I wanted him to go into classes with other english kids to make friends and have a bit of fun and Snowbizz was the only company who could accommoate him because he could ski. Esprit would have put him in the Jardin or with the older beginners and the other companies did not have exclusive classes so no guarantee of other english speaking kids.
I chatted on the phone to Wendy the owner and she was really reassuring, it would be no problem for my son to join the juniors, no way would he be put in the Jardin. If by chance he couldn't keep up for the 2 hours as he was a bit young then they would convert his booking to a 1 hour private. You can very easily chat about your kids' skiing needs with her and she will know what to do. Also when you are actually in resort, her husband, Michel, is personally overseeing the kids' ski lessons, any problem, any concern at all and he is on to it. He is very hands on and totally committed to ensuring the kids have a positive experience and make good progress. I cannot speak highly enough of them
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I was very impressed by ESF in La Rosiere. They seem to realise that customer is king.
Of all the places our kids, and all the kids that we travel with, have been, La Rosiere remains the favourite. Compact, difficult to get lost, quiet, with fun little town.
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At Courchevel 1850 the beginners area is lovely, and if you go over to 1650 it's also very good. Had my 1st proper ski holiday there many moons ago and really loved it, also if you stay at 1850 you get to do the luge on Tuesday evenings. It's not luge as in a sheet of ice speeding down the mountain, it's everyone getting a little plastic sledge and going down a really long toboggan run round the trees etc. Great fun!! if they still do it...
Also the ski school there 'Magic in Motion' is apparently the best, know people who have learned with them.
However, ESF... we'll we've only had good experiences with them. We told them that our daughter only spoke English when we booked (both times), and she was in a class with English children. We've just kind of let her dictate how quickly she wants to progress, the first year when she was only 4 she spent most of the time eating snow, being lazy and taking her ski's off, but she was happy. We had a year off to welcome baby number 2, so this year when she was 6 she just seemed to be more into it, was taken up on a chair lift on day 3 and can now ski blue runs. ESF were great, they organised for the parents to come up on the lift in the morning to make sure they were all safe, then we had our morning skiing together, picked her up from school at lunch and whizzed around with her all afternoon. Everyone happy.
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You know it makes sense.
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Beks1969, the luge run between 1850 and 1550 is open every evening now, I think. I'd agree with you about Courchevel offering lots of terrain suitable for beginners and novice skiers, although not sure that Magic is the best school in the resort. New Generation and Supreme both have pretty good reputations.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Beks1969, the luge run between 1850 and 1550 is open every evening now, I think. I'd agree with you about Courchevel offering lots of terrain suitable for beginners and novice skiers, although not sure that Magic is the best school in the resort. New Generation and Supreme both have pretty good reputations. |
Oh cool, loved that luge run!!
I will take your word for it re Magic, it was a good few years ago that I was last there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The ESF reports here do not match my experience of ESF in La rosiere - Eucharts. We went for New Year week. My son was in a flocon class of 8 English children (flocon is higher level than ourson I think). There were 2 other classes of other nationalities at the same level with different instructors. My son had a lovely female instructor who spoke fluent English. He did as well with her as Snowbizz the year before ..both instructors were very good. He has now had two weeks on snow and skis confidently down a long blue run and is happy taking chair lifts or drag lifts. He was absolutely petrified when he first started skiing last year so I think both the Snowbizz and ESF lessons were very good in his case.
I think one has to look resort by resort when choosing a ski school...there may be other resorts where the ESF are hopeless but in La Rosiere it would appear that ESF and Evolution 2 are good companies.
I think there is a problem in La Rosiere (eucharts) with the Piou Piou classes for younger children..there were only 3 English 3 yr olds the week we went and it was absolutely freezing being New year week...the first morning I was horrified to drop in on the class and see 20 or so children with 3 instructors and the children were all yelling maman maman in various languages and looking distressed. I bought my daughter a balaclava for the next day and she was much warmer. By the end of the week she was firm friends with the other 2 english girls and didn't want to leave. I felt disappointed that after her second year she was still not really doing a snow plough turn but then she started on her 3rd birthday and was still 3 the second time so I don't think it is the end of the world. Next year she will be nearly 5 and I'm sure she will be more confident in the Ourson class having been twice before.
In summary I think if your child is under 4 it is better to use a company like snowbizz where the set up is all English based. I'm not sure if the private lessons are ideal..they can be hugely expensive and sometimes children progress better if they can watch others and make friends. For over 4s I think one has to choose a resort suitable for their level and your level and then find the best ski school in that resort.
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FAQ
It would also be nice to have some bumpy reds to play on when (if) the kids are at ski school. Skidaddy and I have both been skiing since we were at school (back in the 80's) and can get down most things although we are both unfit and need a bar in sight these days 
Papa below was asking me 'Ca va, ca va?' I smiled 'Oui, ca va' 
