 Poster: A snowHead
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Having come in from some stick about ignoring anywhere outside France, can anybody come up with a quick summary of Austrian skiing?
I know that in France there are about half a dozen big areas, and a larger number of smaller places. Some with glaciers are very high and completely snow-sure.
What's the Janet & John approach to Austria?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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James the Last, In Austria there are about half a dozen big areas, and a larger number of smaller places. Some with glaciers are very high and completely snow-sure. 
OK, to be serious, there aren't as many large lift linked areas, although there are as many large single lift pass areas. Quite a few of the large areas covered by one pass require bus connections (usually free) between the parts of the area - e.g. Zillertal, Schneewinkel. There are some decent sized areas which are lift linked though, such as the Ski Welt.
Skiing tends to be lower than France, although it also tends to need less snow, as the underlying surface is usually less rocky. Obviously, there are exceptions to all this, it is just a general tendency. And in spite of much of the skiing being lower, I believe Austria has more skiable glaciers than France does 
I'm not sure what else to tell you.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jolly resorts, lots of boozers on the pistes, usually full of locals and Dutch people getting pissed (with the occasional Brit contributing). Lively apres, pretty unsophisticated (but one doesn't go to ski resorts for sophisticated nightlife). Food based around pig and dumplings. Yum. Good beer.
Resorts not as big as the big French ones, tend to be lower (something to do with the height of the mountains, I assume), but pasture needs less cover than rocks, so not necessarily a problem. Probably more skiing below the treeline, in general, than the popular Frech resorts and perhaps therefore 'prettier' (although I like high and bleak as well as low and Christmassy). There's the odd glacier for late skiing.
If you haven't visited St Anton, you should; fantastic skiing, over a pretty big area (the largest single area in Austria?).
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| richmond wrote: |
If you haven't visited St Anton, you should; fantastic skiing, over a pretty big area (the largest single area in Austria?). |
Big, but not quite the biggest. It is listed as 225Km, while the Ski Welt has 291Km.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hmmm, alex_heney and richmond have covered a number of the main points, but it's worth adding that the resorts are on the whole not purpose built (with a couple of exceptions), so they are real villages with a life of their own and a history outside of skiing. On the whole, even new builds are built in traditional style, so it is quite chocolate box-y in a lot of resorts.
In terms of the skiing, yes it is lower (with a few notable exceptions) than the big French resorts, but as alex_heney and richmond have said the grassy terrain is skiable with less snow. There are half a dozen or so glaciers with almost year round skiing.
Apres-ski is apparently more of a thing in Austria than most other countries, but as I have only skied 2 French resorts (which had very little apres) I can't really comment, except that yes it is a big thing in Austria, with its own musical genre and everything (LOL). It's certainly very sociable!
There are not as many big blocks of rabbit hutch sized apartments in Austrian resorts. Apartments tend to be in chalet style buildings split into say 3 or 4 units. From a booking point of view, there aren't many big agencies like P&V or Century21 etc. things are just run by the locals on the whole.
There are lots of small resorts of one or two hills, but some bigger ones like Skiwelt, Kitzbuehler Alpen, St Anton, Ischgl, etc. Areas with bus links but masses of skiing include Ski Amade, Zillertal.
Guests are mainly German and Dutch, followed by Brits and Scandanavians, and increasing numbers of Russians, Poles, Czechs, etc. There aren't many resorts that are like Henly-On-Snow, it's a pretty mixed crowd in most places.
HTH
D
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alex_heney, including Kitzbuhel area as it is connected will make it bigger.
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Germknodel with vanilla sauce. What else do you need to know?
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Just back from my first skiing trip to Austria (Ischgl) and I can summarise it as: Meat, booze, cheesy pop songs, booze, meat, dancing on tables in ski boots, more meat, oh and great skiing 
Overall, highly recommended!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yoda, 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you get the snow then it is superb.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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James the Last, just back from Austria, having gone for my last 3 trips. Before that we went to Switzerland for a few years (Verbier) and before that a couple of French and Italian trips (god, am I really that old now?!)
For me, the good points are that it is well organised, buses etc run on time, toilets are clean and in working order, service is good, runs tend to be well maintained and pisted (or at least the ones I go on), plenty of flights to Salzburg and easy enough transfers, there are lots of Irish guests, and most people can speak English. The hotels seem to be superbly managed and looked after.
The bad points (again, for me!) are that most of the menus, notices etc are in German (which is a completely incomprehensible language unless you have actually been taught it), the cafes and bars are smokey, the food is pretty stodgy (and very difficult to select from a menu - the English translations make it sound vile), the people seem pretty serious (but like singing and stomping), and the mountains are less imposing and impressive.
All in all, there is nothing bad about Austria, but there is nothing to rave about either (eg a particularly scenic mountain restaurant, a terrifying run, a delicious dish, a colourful character you met in a bar). Not sure where we are off to next year - I would like a more cheerful and colourful version of Austria. Any suggestions?
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Lorenzo, St Anton! If you don't meet a colourful character there, you're doing something wrong! also as i think there is a restaurant at the top of the galzigbahn lift from which the view would be breathtaking.The harikiri in mayrhofen is supposed to be quite scary!
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You know it makes sense.
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| anotherproblem wrote: |
| Lorenzo, St Anton! If you don't meet a colourful character there, you're doing something wrong! also as i think there is a restaurant at the top of the galzigbahn lift from which the view would be breathtaking.The harikiri in mayrhofen is supposed to be quite scary! |
I knew this would get things started. I am reporting in over-generalised terms based on the three trips I have been on. I am also making direct comparison with what you might get elsewhere. Obviously, compared to UK, the people are colourful, the views spectacular, and the food is, well, about the same standard really ......
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lorenzo, My overuse of exclamation marks probably gave the wrong impression. I found St Anton to be full of some wierd and wonderful characters, the only characters I've found in France where British. Also can only think of one view in the alps that surpassed Austria, that was at the peak of some unknown mountain overlooking Avoriaz. Yeh, the foods nothing to write home about, although I like strudel and spatzle 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| anotherproblem wrote: |
| Lorenzo, My overuse of exclamation marks probably gave the wrong impression. |
Not at all. My problem is that I am real foodie, and I hate not being able to communicate or understand the local language. And, as I say, reading menus is just frustrating because I know that there are probably nice things to eat, but they all sound horrible when translated. The smokey bars and restaurants were a problem but that must be common elsewhere too.
As for the mountains, my enduring memory is of seeing a star high in the sky at Verbier and then realising that it was a piste basher on the hilltop! I have not seen imposing mountains like that in Austria (yet). And I have never seen a run like Mont Fort in Verbier either - we started up the cable car, witnessed one guys fall at the top of the run and land at the bottom, and decided to get the bubble back down!
The last French trip was to Chamonix where the Aguille de Midi made me dizzy with the altitude! The walk along the ridge to the Valley Blanche looked terrifying. The run itself is in my book of 50 things to do before you die.
On a trip to Serre Chevalier we stayed at a nice hotel where they had a hotel dog called "Globule". My wife lost the key to the ski locker and the large lady owner bawled and ranted in French for about 5 minutes at us, before being led away by her husband. The food was fantastic and we had a fondue and wine tasting night with the other guests.
My memories of Austria are just of pretty bland in comparison. Maybe I have been going to the wrong places. Where should I try next - thinking of Obergurgle as a possibility for next family trip. Or have I just chosen badly - we have been to Kaprun, Zell am See and Kitzbuhel.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| skiking4 wrote: |
| alex_heney, including Kitzbuhel area as it is connected will make it bigger. |
It needs a bus connection in either direction. Mind you, so does St Anton/Lech (unless you ski down the back of Valluga), but that's a much better connection than Kitz/Westendorf.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hey anotherproblem, I'm arriving in Kitz on Saturday too! This is my fourth visit in three years. Love it everytime! Fantastic place!
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topcat, cool i'm assuming we'll be on the same flight bout 7.30am from manc?
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Hey anotherproblem, I'm arriving in Kitz on Saturday too! This is my fourth visit in three years. Love it everytime! Fantastic place!
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im trying to decide between Finland,Austria and Solvakia at the moment for next january ...i bet i will end up some where else ha ha
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In my extremely humble opinion, and from considerable experience of skiing in both countries numerous times.....
I've had many a poor meal in a mountain restaurant in France but rarely a poor one in Austria (but I like meat, dumplings and potatoes!);
If you like using something akin to a hole in the ground for a toilet then France is great... Austria is a little more sophisticated in the toilet department.... ;
The hotels and guesthouses are of a consistently higher quality in Austria than France and they offer significantly better value for money (a consideration in the current climate);
The people of Austria are very friendly.... you have to begin to understand their sense of humour and accept that the relative harshness of the German language makes them sound far more serious than they actually are.... ;
French ski instructors are great at teaching french kids to race... Austrian ski intructors are great at teaching 1 or 2 weeks a season tourists to get maximum enjoyment on the snow from their ski holiday...;
The beer is better and generally a lot cheaper in Austria....;
Call me a philistine but, controversially perhaps, I think the wine is far superior in Austria (and Switzerland for that matter), to that served in French ski resorts!
The atmosphere in Austria is jolly and fun;
The resorts are real towns which people actually live and work in year round, and they're absolutely beautiful in the main;
An apartment for 4 in Austria sleep 4 comfortably but in france an apartment for 4 sleeps 1 (un)comfortably;
The buses in Austria are frequent and on time;
The staff in Austrian bars, restaurants and hotels serve u with a smile and like they actually want you be be there;
Austria is full of Germans and Dutch with quite a few Birts, France is full of Brits and Scandinavians with the odd frenchman;
In Austria it is easy to get to many resorts independently by train;
BUT:
The resorts are generally lower in Austria - worse snow conditions in warm weather and shorter seasons (glaciers and a few high resprts excepted);
The resorts are generally smaller with less runs, or unconnected areas of slopes (although there are some good sized areas);
Run grading is more consistent in Austria... a blue is blue, a red is red, and a black is black....
Piste bashing and maintenance is largely better in Austria than in France;
And... erm.....
Go to France.... I think you'll hate Austria... 
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I used to think France was the dogs. However I did 5 days in St Anton and I cant think of a SINGLE bad thing to say about it. EVERYONE is nice, which was unexpected. The food is better and cheaper on the mountain. The Apres is out of this world. The lift system was phenomenally good. The pistes were an excellent mix of bashed and "left". The off piste is lovely - especially the one I nearly died on (from above the galzig down to St Chris)
GO. I am never going to France again.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GOOOOOO! Austria is absolutely ACE!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you can't get good skiing and good food in either country you're not trying.
Having said that it is also easier than it should be to eat expensive poor food on the hill in France. There also seem to be quite a few low ski resorts without huge on piste challenges in Austria.
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James the Last, Another vote for the St Anton area. For years I poo pooed Austria for skiing (despite the fact that I love the country and it's people) - always thougt France was better - better snow, nicer food etc..That was until 2003 when I discovered St Anton - really find it hard to fault the region as it offers something for everyone. The Arlberg region gets tonnes of snow and has one of the best if not the best snow records in Alps. St Anton is high by Austrian standards at around 1340m and although lower down after a lot of sun it can get a bit porrigy, in my 7 visits to the region the snow has always been plentiful and in great condition. I have gone other places/countries since but they never compare to St Anton. The Austrians are very customer focused so you always get good service in restaurants etc, polite, efficient and cheaper than mega French resorts (St Anton is considered one of Austria's most expensive but still better value than it's French counterparts IMO)
Toilets immaculately clean, beer is the best (especially Kaiser), food is tasty, wholesome and usually big portions (I personally find the food in the Arlberg region better than say Zell am See). The apres is just brilliant. If you want sophistication head to Lech. If you want small villages whith great snow, head to St Christoph or Stuben. If you want non stop action stay in St Anton. If you want crap beer, crap apres, small rooms, holes in the floor to pee in, overpriced food, grumpy locals keep going to France 
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You know it makes sense.
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Am I correct in thinking that due to the geographical location of Austia, that the equivalent snow for a resort at 1100m in Austria is likley to have better (i.e. ski back to resort) snow at resort level than in France. It sort of seems that St Anton at 1300 was a bit like a 1600 m resort in France, and Hinterglemm at 1100 was a bit like a 1400 m resort on France? Is the freeze zero degrees level in Austria generally at a lower altitude than in France ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rayscoops, I think that is very probably true. There is a forecast weather map which somebody posted on the "outlook" thread, and for the last few weeks there has consistently been a "tongue" of colder weather covering most of Austria and just into Switzerland, while France has all been several degrees warmer.
But it is also significant that the underlying surface both holds snow better and requires less of it to be skiable.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rayscoops, I have also read information to that effect, that the likelihood of low temps or snow at a certain altitude is higher in the eastern alps than in the western alps. Can't remember where I read it, but it pretty convincing stuff. Are there actually any French resorts (or snow) down to 750m?? I would be interested to know.
D
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lorenzo, for an alternative to Austria go to the Dolomites.
Imposing mountains - check.
Good food - check
Italian menus - check
Colourful people - at least Italians will wave their hands a lot
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Colourful people - at least Italians will wave their hands a lot
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.... whislt speaking predominantly german or ladino
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rayscoops,
I had a genuine and bonifide rocket scientist staying here last season.... (his wife was a co-editor for Where to Ski and Snowboard).
Anyhow - he said much the same thing; add about 300 meters to a French height if you want to compare the 2 countries.
Still rocket science isn't exactly brain surgery is it?
And Lorenzo, yeah I aggreee - you have got things started!...
In Austria, apres ski really is that... a big party atmosphere from abou 3:30 till 6:30... then home to shower and eating at 7 ish in half board or 8 ish in town.
Built up TO'd areas seems to have a much more resorty feel (Saalbach Hinterglem has a great evening buzz to hit compared to the quiet towns like Radstadt)
Food - I have lived here for 2 and a half years now, I have decided that in general the Austrians are culinarily retarded BUT what they do make is of a high quality and is fill your tummy stuff... dumplings (sweet savoury and meat), groestl (fired up pots and bacon with a fried egg on top) etc etc... good mountain food plus big 'house' salads. Trying to get something a bit lighter or more delicate is more of a challenge.
Having said all that I had a lovelly lunch today - Austrian noodle soup (stock cubed water plus spaghetti), salad buffet (which was fantastic with hints of Italian flavours and a great pork mayo mixy thing), boiled potatoes, rice and tomato cheesy peppery fishy thing.... All for €7.90 - BARGAIN!!
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 13-03-09 20:07; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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horizon, schoko-amaretto? playing of tuneful Austrian cheese at 3:30 in the afternoon? a man who can carry 20 pints on a train in a rammed Mooserwirt and not spill one? Shhuuush police? very tall, well dressed HOT men? a slide down to the loo?I'm not getting out of bed for less 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nadenoodlee,
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I'm not getting out of bed for less
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What about the other way round?
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anotherproblem, I'm on the 15:00 Thomson flight to Innsbruck. This was the cheapest one when we booked. So I get a lie in
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anotherproblem, just realised there are another two people from our group going to be on the 7:35am Thomson one, if that's yours?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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lol yeh that was mine i'm now sat in the hotel edelweiss
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| Yoda wrote: |
| Germknodel with vanilla sauce. What else do you need to know? |
can't agree more!!!
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