 Poster: A snowHead
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..... opened today. (Except that it didn't because of the wind, but the thought was there.  ) Apparently they have fished the draglifts out of the crevasse and put them the right way up again.
You have free access to La Grave if you have a pass for 6+ days or a paid-for season pass. Otherwise you can buy an extension ticket for 12.50€ or 17.50€ depending on who you are and what type pf pass you hold.
Access from 2Alpes is by chenillette as usual, limited to 500 people per day, departing daily from 10:00 to 13:00 except weekends and holidays (weather permitting). Return trip is on foot, last lift up from La Grave at 15:30.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a Site of Special Skiing Interest, it's beneficial that access to La Grave's ski area is uncertain and limited. There have been historic threats of its swallowing by the 2 Alpes' 'ski-conurbation', which has done so much to spoil the mountainscape.
The contrast between the two areas is one of the world's ski phenomena, and long may it remain so.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Excellent news, time to avoid the crowds. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard,
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..... opened today.
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Which is one of the reasons it was so quiet a couple of weeks ago  We walked up to the top of the glacier from P3. It took about 45 minutes - compared to less than 5 when the lift is running.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You have to get an extension the day before even if it's free. they can only sell 500 per day, and there's no LG - LDA tickets this year, so be warned.
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That sounds like excellent news.
Can I get this straight? So, the lift that was broken is now fixed and it is back to normal again?
I'm heading to l2a in a week's time for a week. can't wait obviously. la grave sounds really interesting. can someone explain what the exact story is with it?
1. I'll have a six day pass. what do i need to do to get to la grave? sounds like i have to book an "extension pass" the day before which won't cost me anything. where do i get that?
2. how do i get there exactly? is there a hike involved?
3. does the l2a 6 day pass work over there or do i have to call into the ticket office when i get there?
4. how do i get back? is there a hike involved? is there a separate lift pass required to get back?
5. i understand that it is not advisable to head over there without a guide? is a guide absolutely necessary for a group of advanced skiiers. if so, where would be the best place to arrange this and approximately how much would i expect to pay?
many thanks in advance for any comments/advice.
Cheers,
Moe
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moesymoe, If you don't know the terrain... get a guide. It's a big valley and there are no marked routes. Great fun though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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1. Book a place on the chenillette. Ask at the lift office the day before.
2. In the chenillette on which you booked a ticket. Leaves from the top pf the glacier.
3. Not sure - check with the lift office.
4. You walk from the top pf the lifts at La Grave back over to 2Alpes.
5. Ask at the Bureau des Guides in the central tourist office in 2Alpes. Going with a guide will mean a) you are less likely to fall down a hole and die; and b) you will have more fun with someone who knows all the routes and the best conditions.
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moesymoe, I posted this earlier - on the 'tell me about la Grave thread'
just back from la Grave after skiing Friday-Sunday.
Skiing at La Grave is not like other lift accessed off piste.
1. There is no easy option at all.
2. The 'normal routes' Chancel and Vallons whilst marked on the map are not marked or signed on the mountain they are not 'itinerary runs'. Chancel starts of on a glacier- with unmarked cravasses. It leads to the Chancel Refuge but to get there you have do some really very tricky skiing and traverse across a very steep slope. Vallons starts down some steep slopes and you need to keep clear of the 'chutes de glace'- the serac falls. Both require skiing what are hardest tracks I have ever seen- narrow- rutted/ bumped up with roots/rocks and tree branches. Impossible to relax without a fall and injury (and these are the flat bits). Then steep bumps to the bottom. This is all without going anywhere near any of the couloirs. Actually you can't relax anywhere.
3. If you don't like it- tough! Skiing off piste often means an easy ski back to a piste - or a shortish section of vertical 300-500m or so. If you don't like it then just keep going it will all be OK- not here - if you don't like it tough! If you get out at the top (3200m) then the next stop is 800m below the full package is now 3200m-1450m (sadly the top lifts are out of action due to massive rock fall on the Trifides poma) without human powered ascent.
4. Following other people is a really bad idea. Quite often folk ski off piste with a vague idea of where they are going- following what appears to be the 'beaten track'. This plan- whilst obviously flawed usually works on the basis that 'I'm really quite a good skier- if lots of people have been down here I'll be ok' This logic does not apply at La Grave. If this is your first visit then chances are that (almost) everyone around you is much much better than you and most will be quite happy to ski 45' couloirs/abseil into something even steeper and have all the kit in their rucksacs.
5. The snow may be very tricky/cut up/bumped.
I found it fantastic fun- but very hard work. Perhaps using new skis for the first time was a mistake- Line Prophet 90s which are stiff and very unforgiving (unlike my Foils which are a doddle to ski off piste and allow all sorts of errors to go unpunished) but by the end of the first day- with about 6000m I was completely knackered- a big fat sweaty mess- enough steam to heat a small town and with legs that would not turn.
Get fit- very and if like me you carry a stone or two then loose it.
On a positive note
1. Very friendly place- if you see someone on the mountain / talk to them in the gondela then the chances are you will see them again- at the huts or in the bar later. If they are from the UK and you talk enough you'll find that know people in common. If you have chatted to other folk in the resort- they will know them- it really is very friendly.
2. The skiing is fantastic! But demanding.
3. Food on the mountain is excellent- especially at Chancel and very good value - Vacherin Mont D'Or with lots of spuds, salad and jambon cru €18- compared with a horrid tartiflet and mangeld salad at the same price in a 'self' at Le Rossiere earlier this year was a total bargain. Other very good meals such as chicken liver salad with walnuts €12.
4. Great places to stay (Edelwise)
5. Free skis!! Edelwise has a Black Diamond test centre- where they let you try skis- for a day or more for free- and not just any skis- really good ones- with touring bindings and skins and if they have your size boots as well- gratis.
6. Free cups of tea!! At the gondela mid-station- fantastic!!
will post some photos soon.
moesymoe, you ask if a guide is necessary/ how much would that cost-
it is a potentially very dangerous place- with no physical effort on your part you will be dropped off at over 3500m in the Alps- ok so far this is not much different to a regular days skiing- but then- instead of going down in an area mappped, signed, avalanche controlled, patrolled and with hazards marked you will be making your way down. Not just a bit but over 2 vertical kilometers. Between you and the and biere serieux at the bottom there will be; crevasses (do you have harnesses, ropes, ice screws, prusiks/triblocs and slings- can you rig a pulley system to get out? chances are you won't fall in a crevasse mind) big cliffs which are not marked (when I was there last month a German man in another party staying at the same hotel fell over one-150'- he was 47- he had 2 kids- he died- this was the first thing I heard when I got out of the hotel door with my skis and boots for the first days skiing- he and is group were with 2 ski instructors- not guides), none ofthe slopes are avalanche controlled- are you confident that you can find a safe way down assessing snowpack as you go whatever the conditions (can get naturally pisted but if there is fresh snow this will be more difficult) it is a vast area with multiple routes down, the way the lifts work is to deposit very small numbers at the top at any one time when you ski there you are essentially all alone for long periods- you can't depend on being able to follow someone else. If you do follow someone else then as above the chances are that they will be very much better than you (advanced skiers or not) that they will ski very fast off piste, will have years of ski/ mountaineering experience and may well be heading some where just a bit scary, one option is a a young American pair I met in the la Grave gondola some years back is to 'follow a guide and carry a long rope' he and his mate had come from Jackson hole for the winter and skied at la Grave just like that- each with a 50m rope in their rucksacks so they could abseil down anything they got ino- by following guided groups).
Lots of people ski there without a guide, but I wouldn't now- I might have when I was younger/not married/ no kids/ no money. It's all about how you take risk. But to decide you need to know what the risks are, how well you are able to mitigate them, what risk you are prepared to take- for what benefit....split a few ways the cost of a guide will be very very small compared to the total cost of your trip.
here is the link to the guides office 05320 La Grave - France
Tel. +33/(0)4 76 79 90 21
Fax. +33/(0)4 76 79 96 90
www.guidelagrave.com
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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one of the easier couloirs- bannane
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Chancel and Vallons are red run steepness at best.
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... and the Les 2 Alpes to La Grave link is a bad thing.
There are plenty other mega-linked resorts in the world.
La Grave is one of these special places that needs to be preserved.
If you want to ski there, then do it properly, and take the time to make a specific visit.
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You know it makes sense.
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moesymoe, I would not ski it without a guide,(they know the mountain, I don't) but I would ski it every time you get the chance. It is wonderful and does need to be preserved.
Skiing how it was intended to be.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bad_roo wrote: |
| Chancel and Vallons are red run steepness at best. |
Ignore this. Looking at bad_roo's other threads- and stuff on TGR he is obviously far too talented/fit/fearless to give useful info to normal people! Really.
If you are happy to lap couliors at 45' etc then Chancel and Vallons will offer no challenges as such - but if you are a 'good skier in most resorts' then you will get a big shock at la Grave and whilst you would be unlikely to die without a guide getting one might help 1. stay friends with the people you persuaded to go 2. avoid having a really really bad day 3. get home before dinner's ready and the pub shuts . This in climbing parlance is called an 'epic'- I have had many involving unplanned nights out on several continents (Dolomites, Himalayas Morocco), climbed up and down icy couloirs with not much more than a pen knife and reduced one of my oldest and biggest friends to tears (he quite reasonably thought he was going to die by falling down an enormous cliff) these sorts of life experience are possibly character building although if I knew then what I know now I'd have avoided them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Drove round today, no bother with the passes, definitely the best way to do it as you can get there much earlier.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[quote="edsilva"]
| bad_roo wrote: |
| Chancel and Vallons are red run steepness at best. |
Ignore this. Looking at bad_roo's other threads- and stuff on TGR he is obviously far too talented/fit/fearless to give useful info to normal people! Really.
If you are happy to lap couliors at 45' etc then Chancel and Vallons will offer no challenges as such - but if you are a 'good skier in most resorts' then you will get a big shock at la Grave and whilst you would be unlikely to die without a guide getting one might help [quote]
On a clear visibility day with unfunky snow I have to agree that Vallons & Chancel are not particularly tough - this Sunday for example they were packed down and bumped slighty like an afternoon piste and only the upper pitch of the Vallons and the traverses out to P1 would upset a confident intermediate with some decent route finding ability.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Ignore this. Looking at bad_roo's other threads- and stuff on TGR he is obviously far too talented/fit/fearless to give useful info to normal people! Really.
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He's right, though. With the exception of the wall at the top of Vallons there isn't anything over 30 odd degrees in either route.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gorilla, I'd say that's right. However the entry into the area from the restaurant can be quote interesting - icy moguls leading to icy rutted traverses. And getting out at the end can be quite icy, rutted and mogully, too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Swirly, agreed - not everyone has a wagon handy, though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| Quote: |
Ignore this. Looking at bad_roo's other threads- and stuff on TGR he is obviously far too talented/fit/fearless to give useful info to normal people! Really.
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He's right, though. With the exception of the wall at the top of Vallons there isn't anything over 30 odd degrees in either route. |
well firstly the wall at the top of Vallons is right at the start- so it is intimidating you don't know it will get easier, then the whole thing is unpisted- so whatever the angle it can be tricky, then the length- far longer than most people who ski in resorts will do off piste in one, you can't really see all the route from the lift- especially the traverses and lower section,....
Having skied there for a long weekend with a guide I would consider doing Vallons (and Chancel) without a guide- but not if the snow or weather were wobbly. Wouldn't recommend a first visit unguided to anyone who was not very competent and experienced off piste (unless they were very skint).
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For sure the Vallon & Chancel can be technically straightforward.
And no steeper than a red run.
However the main difference is that your in a high mountain area above 3000m.
With no marker signs or ski patrol to hold your hand.
With that come lots of objective dangers -
Such as variable weather, variable snow, avalanches, serac fall, crevases, avalanches, navigation etc.
La Grave is wild skiing in its purest form - where you take 100% responsibility for your own safety.
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Haggis_Trap, agree, they are 2000 vertical mtrs of navigating... and you do indeed need to be sure of what you are doing as there is no telling what some people are planning to ski.
In good vis...not such a problem and if you can ask people.... they are generally respectful and helpful but not a place to 'wing' it.
If you can't ski gullies like Banane then you shouldn't be unassisted, IMV
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JT, any thoughts on how steep Banane is?
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not much more than 35degrees would be my guess
less steep than triffide 1 and that is about 40 i believe
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Arno, thanks. Reckon that I could take that on. Not keen to see Triffide 1 again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, If that....I would have thought... It does look very impressive tho' from edsilva's, pic which is why I commented on it...
There were some pics of skiers in it on this site, but I can't find them.
Once you are over the lip you are into normal territory ..........
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| JT wrote: |
| ......Once you are over the lip you are into normal territory .......... |
I thought that rated a thread.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
La Grave is wild skiing in its purest form
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What, with three lifts and a mountain restaurant? I think not.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, finally got round to doing Banane on Friday, did Derobe too, great intro to couloir riding. Banane has the added advantage of looking so much steeper than it is.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They're good fun, aren't they Swirly. Banane in particular feels so impressive with that great cliff to your right when you're in it, but is so wide there's lots of opportunity to ski/board it however you like. You get the same with La Voute too
(photo just catches the end of the cliff, it extends back up from this spot a couple of hundred metres). You will need a guide for that one though, and there's a 25m rappel to get into it.
What was the entry into Derobe like? I've only done it once because the top 10m or so is normally pretty tight, the one time I did there was only just enough room to sidestep down that section and there was a good selection of rock and ice to catch you out if you weren't careful. Once into it though it was really good fun - just tight and steep enough to keep you on your toes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I skied Banane when I was about 13, would love to get back there to see if I can remember the routes we took with the guide (with another obviously).
I'm maybe off to Alpe D'huez soon, I'm guessing it's not really feasible to get all the way across to La Grave as well?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, it was ok, narrow for the first 5-10m or so I jump turned down that bit, it's probably not even as steep as Banane IMO. The snow was really good, bumps in the Banane but none in Derobe tbh I think it was soft enough that even if you fell you wouldn't have gone anywhere, maybe if you lost both skis you would have slid to the bottom. We've been talking about La Voute but you're right about the guide, I think finding it would be hard enough. Have you done the Freaux? That doesn't sound anymore technical than the others, just longer.
Spikyhedgehog, I guess you'd need a car to get there from AdH doubt it's on their lift pass either, well worth it if you can get there but there's a heck of a lot of stuff in AdH too.
I'm going to seriously open myself up to a flaming here but IMO if you're the kind of person who wants to seriously ride at La Grave then the first couple of times you go then you don't need a guide. Of course this requires you to be fairly knowledgeable about general off piste safety but then you probably should be if you're going there and on a normal day the dangers are pretty damn obvious. Most of the "first time" guided groups seem to do Vallons, Pateau (sp? called Terrace in the guide but I gather this is the correct name), Banane and maybe the Col du Lac via the Girose this is the only one where you might need a guide (glaciated) but if you did the first three and Chancel (which lets you look at the couloirs before doing them) then you'd have had a pretty good day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Swirly, Freaux is fine, no problem at all - just need the snow conditions to be able to get out at the bottom (only done it once, never really been in condition on other trips), and you need a lift/hitch back to the village. Sounds like this year it shouldn't be a problem. Not sure how easy it is to find the entry, as of course I just followed my guide - I think you end up in pretty hairy positions if you get the route to the entry wrong.
I actually agree with your final para - provided the visibility is fine. Main danger with Chancel is if you follow tracks that are away from the main group you may end up at the top of a cliff with a long walk back up. I've done little more than touch the surface on most of my trips. Guides are definitely required though to open up what the place is really about.
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Guides are definitely required though to open up what the place is really about.
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I agree, the other day we saw a rando group getting out the lift at P3, the next time we saw then they'd just traversed under the face of the Meije, carried on across the next glacier to a small couloir in the top corner then climbed up that. I don't even know how they got to the glacier! We think they may have gone to the Col du Girose skied the back and then climbed back up. Wouldn't be doing it on a board and snowshoes anyway!
Then there's other things like the Pan de Rideau, once again I wouldn't go there on my board (mainly because the access traverse looks like death on a stick). Most would want a guide, but not everyone would, you need to know where you're going to avoid the Seracs but it's fairly obvious and you can get a good look at it from across the Vallons. Chiroze is similar, probably needing a guide even more so, the route finding at the top looks bloody hard underneath is obvious but getting there: wow. Hopefully we'll have saved enough money for a couple of guided days later in the season to get a chance to hit some of these bigger lines.
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Spikyhedgehog, La Grave is about an hour away from AdH. Provided you are not averse to an early start it is perfectly feasible to get over there for the day. Quentin Delavignette in the AdH guides office has worked in La Grave fairly extensively and I would recommend asking him or a colleague what will be good and where on any given day. His site is at www.delavignette.com - there are not very good photos of me in there somewhere and rather better ones of someone that looks a lot like Horizon.
Swirly and I are about here all season so drop us a line if you fancy meeting up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spikyhedgehog, alternatively, get a guide and explore ADH's multiple charms off piste 
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Arno, gorilla, Just booked my trip and getting excited now. Bring on the 28th of march.
ADH is worth exploring then? I have faint memories as a child from a couple of days there. Any tips?
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FAQ
but did raise a smile. 
