 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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without seeing your foot......... etc etc but the best guess is that you need to be in a smaller boot which allows more space for your ankle/calf, think about how many holidays a boot will last you, and how much you actually pay for every day that you ski...in % terms the cost of a boot is a very small amount
get the correct boot and try to ignor the cost of it, if you get something in the sale then all well and good, but it is only a bargain if it is the correct boot in the right size
good luck
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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queen bodecia, take a trip to see CEM. You won't regret it 
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CEM, Perhaps you could answer a question for me too.
After years of struggling with my own boots (that I now know were too big once they had packed out) I decided to buy new ones. The boot fitter took considerable time and effort to fit me with the right ones, and they fit so snugly I hardly needed to fasten them - I tried them out at our indoor snowdome, and no sore spots or pressure points appeared, and I wore them around the house to get used to them. So off I went on Holiday last week assured of a comfortable week. Then came the problem. Although my toes didn’t make contact with the end of the boot when stood in a forward skiing stance, the moment I changed from this, to walk to the lifts, walk into the hut for lunch or stand in gondola, my toes were forced hard against the front of the boot which was very painful. I did mention this when I was buying them, but the fitter assured me that boots should fit like this to be correct for skiing. (as he put it "they are not meant for walking") On day two, the nail beds of my big toe were turning blue, and the area around the nail was bright red and swollen. My toes were so painful by the end of day two, that the next day I had to take shoes in my backpack, and take the boots off the moment I stopped skiing. I tried walking with them done up, to see if that stopped my foot moving to the front, but nothing helped, my toes touched the ends all the time when not leaning into the front of the boot. I'm wondering now if as soon as the front tongue of the boots started to pack out, and my foot moved forward a fraction, there was no room to accommodate this as the boots are such a close fit. My old boots were mondo 24.5 and the new ones 23.5. Now I have the dreaded job of returning to the shop, and I wonder just what can be done about a shell that is just too short. They were checked for length without the inner, and in a bare foot, which I know is how it should be done, so are boots meant to be like this? Does everyone else have blackened toes, can’t walk in their boots, and has to wear open toes shoes all week in the hotel because their toes are so sore?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sharon1953, sounds as though either , you need to tighten the clip around the ankle a bit more ore have the shell stretched a little to accomdate the big toe, the problem with toe nails is when the damage is done nothing feels good , the other thing that can cause this is too much forward lean in the boot compared to your ankle joint range of motion, as you stand up the calf muscle can push you forward in the boot and impact the toes. assuming the shell hasd been found to be the correct length and volume then it should be a simple fix, if too much volume then the foot could slide forward
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CEM, thank you, I did try tightening the clips, in various formations to see if that changed things, and it wasn't just my big toe, the 2nd and 3rd hit the front too, which got squeezed sideways as the boot is more shaped at the end. I even filed my toes nails nice and short to gain some extra room! If they can some how push the front out that would be great, because I really don't want to part with these, but if I have to, I would get the same ones only half a size or a whole size bigger. How on earth do they get something into the end to push it out and won't that affect the ledge that acts as the clip?
It's taken me a long time to find a pair that fit my thin ankles and narrow feet and they were in my price range, so an alteration would be ideal.
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sharon1953, if those tries were the day of hurting or in the week after, it might be a flawed experiment.
As CEM said, with hurty toes *nothing* feels good and it can take weeks for the swelling to subside enough for you to be able to feel a small but sufficient difference when one exists. Yet small but sufficient is exactly what's needed, not overkill.
The clip in question is second from top of the cuff, and you also want to make sure the heel is all the way back in the pocket when you get it tighter. You know, banging the heel of the boot on the floor kinda thing.
Stretching the toebox is really not that hard with the right tools and a bit of patience and forethought. It sounds, however, like your foot might be moving around in the boot as you walk, so keeping your heel in place would be a greater priority or you'll just bang into the stretched bit of toebox.
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CEM, understand your points entirely but I think a trip to a professional bootfitter and new full price boots is way out of my league (I'm guessing £200+?) so I'll have to leave it for now and stick to hired equipment. I guess cutting corners and buying a bargain in the end of season sales is just going to land me in the same position as I am currently in, brand new shiny boots which are no use to me whatsoever. Thanks for the advice...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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queen bodecia, who said anything about new full price boots?
You're shutting out all the cuff stretching and grinding options, just to name some low cost things that could be done.
BTW, there is no difference between 26 and 26.5 shells of the same model boot.
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comprex, you mean my current boots (currently on fleabay)...?
I think I have decided beyond reasonable doubt that these boots are too big in foot length and too high up my legs to be salvageable for me, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to put my feet anywhere near them ever again. I have taken the custom footbeds out though assuming they can be used again if I'm ever in a position to buy new boots. They may need cutting down as they were designed to fit a 27 boot...
I knew about the 26/26.5 shell thing and tried on a variety of boots in both sizes at the hire shop. Some were clearly well worn and had heavily compressed liners so felt 'bigger' than others. However, I did have the problem sharon1953 describes with all the size 26s I tried in that my toes were squished when walking but OK when leaning forward in 'ski' pose...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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queen bodecia, I take it you did -not- have anything comparable to your custom footbeds in the variety of boots when you tried them?
'F'so, I wouldn't be surprised to hear you fitting into a 25/25.5 Dolomite next season once your heel is controlled; those things can have great oceans of toe room esp. from the second toe towards the little toe.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, no I didn't take the footbeds out of the Nordicas at the time. I think they would be too long for 26/26.5 boots, even when I stand my feet on them there's about 5-6mm clear above my toes. They measured my feet at the hire shop and said I should be a size 26, but I was concerned about the toe squishing thing. I think this is why I ended up with size 27 boots all those years ago...
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queen bodecia, not those ones but similar ones:
| comprex wrote: |
I take it you did -not- have anything comparable to your custom footbeds in the variety of boots when you tried them?
'F'so, I wouldn't be surprised to hear you fitting into a 25/25.5 Dolomite next season once your heel is controlled; . |
the implication being that a proper set of customs can *shorten* your foot length as far as the boot shell is concerned.
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, CEM, I agree once the toes were sore, nothing felt good, still in trainers now which is why I am delaying to go back to the shop, though I have phoned to let them know my predicament. I do all the heel banging when I first put them on, always have done, I fasten them in the sequence shown by the boot fitter, and made sure I didn’t over-tighten the clips, as the boot fitter said that if I have to tighten them up the way I used to, it’s an indication that the boot doesn’t fit. In my old boots, I used to have to ask someone else to press the buckles down! I had to have them so tight to stop heel lift, but I don’t need to do that with these to stop any movement, as there isn’t any. I did over-tighten them to see what it felt like, and it just cut the blood supply off, and my toes were still banging the ends when I stood or walked and that was on day 1, before they got too sore. Trying to walk with boots fully fastened is not easy when you have a dodgy knee either!
So when does one decide the boot is too short and does it matter if there is room at the end if the rest of the shell fits ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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definetly go and see CEM. Otheriwse you may end up wasting more money.
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Poster: A snowHead
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comprex, I see what you mean. As far as I could tell there were no custom footbeds in the hire boots, just the normal insoles which irritatingly stuck to my socks when I took my feet out of the boots at the end of the day!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Alexandra, good heavens, you must have a high pain threshold. Once my toes were sore, there was no way I was going to walk in them anymore. When the thought of walking through the snow and grit in my stocking feet was more appealing than taking another step in my boots, I knew there was something wrong. The next day I walked to the lift in shoes, but even just walking down to the toilet cafe, and standing in lift queues was agony with my boots on - the blueness in the nail is fading, so hopefully no long term damage. I spent my youth in Clarks too, my mum would be horrified 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sharon1953, Alexandra, I had the same in my old boots, managed to get the toe box expanded (and in fact ground out by a good 5mm) before I lost the nail thankfully. In fact sharon1953's description was uncanny. I find what CEM said about the forward lean very interesting as the main issue I always had with the boots (once my big toes had space around them) was the strain on my calves of the forward lean - v tight achilles even despite faithful calf stretching exercises, so the issue of forward lean vs range of ankle movement makes sense. My new boots don't have as much forward lean as the old ones (and are hybrid/touring boots with an effective walk function) which give me much more scope of flex when skiing and allow me to eliminate any achilles/calf strain when I stop (which isn't nearly as bad now anyway with less forward lean). It did take a few days' skiing to get used to the different centre position of the new boots, but they've transformed my comfort
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i used to have similar problems with my old boots, i have always been measurd up for boots by varoius places and told 26.5 was my size (my shoe size is a uk 9 to 8.5 dependant on shoe)
A custom foot bed helped a little as i do have a high arch and standing up flattend my foot inturn stretching it out, as i said it helped a bit but not much. My old boots skied great and no problems in use but the bits in between slope and hotel room/ slope and lift line etc etc were a killer.
I upgraded my boot this year to a new pair of tecnica dragons (again in 26.5) wot a difference, they have a soft/strechy neoprene toe box so when not skiing and standing upright i can still feel the end of the boot with my big toe, but it now has a little give at the end where my big toe touches. it feels firm and tight but has the give of the neoprene at the end and is way ahead in comfort when standing in lift lines, walking etc. to my old tecnica boots in the same size
The toe box in neoprene is a great idea imho, and it is the bit i like best about the boot (much more than fancy race buckles etc). It gives me a propper fit boot with but enables me to wear them all day for a week with no problems. No tired feet at the nend of the day just ready for the next 
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Back to the subject of leg height. Can any of the boot specialists confirm which makes/models of boots have lower leg heights? It might help in future if I know roughly what I'm looking for before getting to the hire shop...
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eng_ch, I know what you mean, in my old boots I could afford a much more upright stance, but in my new ones, I am forced to stand in a ski position to relieve some of the toe pressure, but this wasn’t the case when I first bought the boots as I wore them around the house for quite some time. On one occasion the pressure of having to stand with my legs bent in a lengthy gondola ride caused both legs to tremble so much I looked as though I was on one of those vibrating fitness machines you use in the gym...god know what everyone thought. It seems a shame to start re-shaping the boot in the toe area, when the problem is that the wrong size boot may have been sold in the first place, I feel this just gets around the problem of the retailer having to offer a new pair or a refund. No one is perfect...they just might have got it wrong!
depthjunkie, I've had a good look at the liner, it's not the liner my toes are hitting, it's rock hard plastic!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sharon1953, measure the circumference of your calf at the top of the boot [preferably in inches] and let me know what it is....if you don't have your boot handy guess at around 11-12" from the floor
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Well, the good news is I sold the excrutiatingly painful Nordicas on fleabay and managed to recoup half the money I paid for them (plus kept the expensive £30 custom fit footbeds). Not not such an expensive mistake after all...
However, I have discovered that Decathlon are selling off their end of season stock including the exact same boots I hired in Courmayeur (Dolomite size 26.5) for £39.95. Is this a good idea bearing in mind it would take me a couple of years to save up £200+ for new full-price boots?
I don't think Decathlon do a heat-moulding service, but I'm assuming I can cut-down my footbeds and put them in these Dolomite boots? The hire boots seemed to be a reasonable fit, I certainly had no pain for the week in Courmayeur but they were possibly a little bit loose around the ankle area. Would this be because they were hire boots and had been stretched by all manner of feet? Would my footbeds possibly alleviate this?
I realise I'm asking a load of hypothetical questions as none of you have seen my feet. I also realise that the advice given by most is to put my trust into a bootfitter and buying whatever he/she suggests. However, my budget simply will not stretch to that (no pun intended)...
Basically it's either these cheapo boots at Decathlon or a second hand pair off the internet, or else I forget the whole notion of buying new boots and hire them for ever more...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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queen bodecia, personally I'd not buy boots from anywhere unless I had a good recommendation that they were a good boot fitter. Surely having bought incorrectly once you'd be keen to not make the same mistake twice? The old saying buy cheap and buy twice springs to mind.
Brand new boots from Decathlon may feel very different to hire boots.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kitenski, fair point. I think I'm just trying to find an affordable way to have my own boots...
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queen bodecia, at £39.95, I'd say buy them! Especially if you've hired the same thing before & liked them...
Of course, the ideal is a pair of correctly fitted boots from a good bootfitter, as you already know. But hey, you must be paying at least forty quid to hire boots in resort, I should think, so it's got to be worth a go... 
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You know it makes sense.
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Jo225, that was my thinking too. Hired boots in Courmayeur cost me €32 so £39.95 boots would pay for themselves in less than two trips. If they fit...
I'm well aware of the ideal as you describe it, I just don't have the budget. Well, I do if I forego a skiing holiday next season, which would make having new boots rather pointless. You see my predicament. I'm also currently trying to save up to get my motorbike serviced and new tyres. Another tricky financial balancing act...
Of course, all this is pure conjecture if I lose my job and house...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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queen bodecia, do you really think your skills won't outgrow a 50-flex bottom-of-the-line boot like the Dolomite GX in two trips?
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Poster: A snowHead
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comprex, I don't know what that means, but I do know that my ski skills have gone down considerably from their peak in 1992 and with 6 days a year, an old body and general lack of fitness and confidence, I don't see them improving...
What is the difference with a 'bottom of the line' boot? I was told the new boots that I wrongly bought were too 'advanced' for me, being too stiff and too high in the leg. This is something I definitely need to avoid if I ever buy myself more boots...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
What is the difference with a 'bottom of the line' boot? |
Cheap and soft plastic formulation, cheap liners; in that particular instance even the buckles are plastic. There are inline skate boots out there with better appointments, better edging, and better pressure control to the toe wheel/ski tip. The worst part is, there is very little bootfitters can do to fix that no matter how much you pay them.
The fitness you can control; better boots better fitted create confidence. In fact, if you've only had the oversize rear-entry Nordicas since 1992, I am not remotely surprised that your confidence has slid.
Old is only as you make it: I was skiing bumps, some up to above my head, with a 70-year old this w/e.
What do I mean by 'outgrow'? I mean 'wish to perform maneuvers that will be hindered by the boot, by direct blocking, by vague sensations and lack of feedback, or by simple lack of leverage'.
It could be something as simple and basic as being able to lift one ski off the ground when edging with the other, on a green slope, in a lesson.
Now, if you tell me that you can do all the exercises on Fastman's DVDs, for example, in the Dolomite GX, without bootfitter work, then by all means get them until you can afford better. Of course, if you tell me that, I will not believe any claims you make about having no skills. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I didn't realise the Dolomites were such basic boots, although the price tag should have given them away (they were £69.95 full price reduced to £39.95). However, having skied in hired ones for a week in Courmayeur, they seemed fine to me, especially after the agony of two hours in the wrongly purchased Nordicas. I am a basic recreational skier, on piste only and one week a year. My fitness has diminished considerably since my cancer treatment and I now also suffer from suspected fibromyalgia. I swim and do pilates every week, and occasionally cycle, but high impact stuff is completely off my menu now...
I also have no idea what 'Fastman DVD' is...
I understand that simply buying cheap boots because I can afford them might not be the way to go, which is why I asked the wisdom of the  . However, my alternative is hiring boots, which by the looks of things appear to be the same quality as these cheapo Dolomite boots...
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If you buy these boots the same size as you hired they're going to feel tight for probably your first two years of skiing. Rental boots are fully packed out by scores of sweaty footed renters.
You pays yer money and you takes yer chances. For 40 quid for a boot which you KNOW (!) doesn't give you too much gyp I'd go for it. You can always pop the liners in the oven (VERY low temp!) to mould them to your feet before you go away - and when you're watching telly on a sunday afternoon you can pop them on.
Ability/shmability - yes of course there are those skiiers who require a better boot - but no boot is better than a boot which fits! I don't care how high-tech your boots are, if they make you cry then you're not going to ski to the best of your ability anyway.
Edit: As for the looseness around your ankle, you may not even feel this until the boots have packed out - but you can always do the ankles yourself. Ever had a funny star-shaped ankle pad put on your liner in a bootfit shop? It's very Blue Peter with a bit of sticky-backed foam which I'm sure you could do yourself if you've got the inclination to fiddle for a while.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well, I didn't buy them. I went to Decathlon and tried them on and they were very tight. They were actually size 26 rather than 26.5 (I realise this means the same shell). I didn't even want to try walking in them. I now see the bootfitter argument for stretching/compressing the liners very clearly. I also noticed how cheap they looked next to the nice Atomic and Salomon boots. Pretty sure the Atomic ones would be too high up my legs but the Salomon ones looked the ticket, just nothing bigger than size 24. Also the Salomon and Atomic boots were £129, ouchie! Damn my fat mortgage and clown feet!
So I'm giving up on the idea of owning my own boots. There really doesn't seem to be a cheap solution. Thanks to everyone for the advice, I certainly know more about ski boots than I ever did, and I know what to ask for in the hire shop next season...
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queen bodecia, well, if it will make you feel better, the hire shops will have newer kit next year anyhow...
Did you do a shell fit, to see how much room was behind your heel and tendon in just the shell? I admit to being really rather curious at this point.
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comprex, I didn't do a shell fit. I'm afraid I'm rubbish at getting the liners out of the shells. I guess there's a knack to this...
I think I probably am a size 26/26.5 once the liners are suitably fitted and compressed. After all I'm only a UK8 shoe size (I say 'only', that's still rather large for a gal)...
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Grrr. So I had sold the painful new Nordicas on fleabay but the buyer decided not to pay so it's now gone to dispute. Ebay does my head in sometimes...
I reckon I'm probably better off waiting 'til next season starts to sell them now, what do others think...?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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queen bodecia, Wait and see the out come of the dispute. The buyer may be at fault as long as the product matched the discription.
You might still want to try sell them this season if the dispute does not work out, with excited people coming back from holidays at easter you might get lucky. Similarly at the start of the season.
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queen bodecia,hi..my gf is looking for new boots..what nordicas are they,what size are they(i see youre a 26-26.5..shes 26-26.5), and how much do you want for them(if still selling)
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FAQ
) would come out of the boot "pointy shaped"! I also had the toes punched out width-wise which did help a little, however walking is still crippling.
