 Poster: A snowHead
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The above quote - certainly not impartial - is taken from a Reuters report filed from Val d'Isere by Astrid Wendlandt, concerning the current unprofitability of ski manufacturing, against a surge in ski rental: Stormy weather for ski makers
The quote is from Eric Vaesa of Ski Republic, a chain of ski rental shops in France.
Car rental co-exists with car selling (although this industry also seems to be in crisis at the moment). People buy or rent houses (although this industry also seems to be in crisis at the moment).
Will the trend to ski rental be unstoppable now, or will people buy skis again in future? I guess it partly depends on how well they are maintained, and this quote from the article seems quite significant in that regard:
| Quote: |
| Rental shops make their money back on a pair of skis or boots after renting them out for three weeks, pocketing attractive returns during the five-month skiing season. |
From the manufacturers' point of view, the margins squeezed out of them by rental chains bulk-buying their skis is encouraging them to think about renting their products themselves, but ...
| Quote: |
| Some ski makers argue that entering the rental market now is not an option as prime sites at the bottom of the pistes have all been taken by powerful local families. They worry that shops would stop buying from them if they competed with them directly. |
Any comments on this? Have you stopped buying skis, and switched to rental ... or vice-versa?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Several comments.
First, that ski rental prices are clearly non-competitive - probably due to the continued growth of chains like Ski-Set and Intersport but also due to gentlemen's agreements.
Second, we rented when we were away from our usual base this year because of the hassle factor, and because 'budget' airline transport charges are high as well (though only half the rental price of 'premier' skis). If, however, we had risked putting more than one pair of skis per bag there would have been a significant saving taking our own skis and in retrospect I feel we should probably have done so.
Third, that manufacturers need to think about reducing their retail prices so that they encourage ownership and do not rely so heavily on the rental market - difficult given their sponsorship and marketing commitments.
Fourth, that there are bargains to be had so I have only bought skis out of season or in the second-hand market.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Rental (snowboards for me) was an attractive proposition due to the high costs of ski/board carriage on planes. However, as long as you share a bag between two then this becomes affordable again and means that it's worth having the equipment once more as you know what you're getting and can get familiar with your own kit.
I have skiing friends who will never buy their own gear - just doesn't make sense for one or two weeks in the year. When ski/board carriage was free it was more likely that they'd have bought skis, but both have now confirmed they won't buy skis as the airline charges are too expensive PLUS any advances in ski techology means that as long as they get the good gear, they get new skis each year rather than outdated 4-year old, "old faithful" type gear.
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Don't think the car buying vs renting analogy works as one doesn't tend to replace the other. I would think that most people who rent cars also own them but just don't have them available to them in that particular place (i.e. when on holiday). The house buying vs renting is closer to the mark, IMO. And, according to reports, house prices are dropping and rental prices increasing as the level of supply vs demand in each sector alters.
As well as people putting-off buying to rent instead, I would also reckon that many people who, in the normal cycle of things, would be looking to upgrade their skis this year, are instead sticking to their current model for at least another season. I know I'm in that boat.
Ultimately, skiing (and even more so the purchase of skis) is a luxury which (and I know lots of/most  will take take umbrage) is expendable when times get bad.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I mainly use my own skis -though I sometimes rent because of local conditions making my Missions unsuitable. The pounds prices for skis still look reasonable. OTOH, renting must consume less resources, and so may be good for the planet - even if it is not good for the ski industry. If I had to switch to renting as a norm, I would want very strong assurance about the quality of the binding checks, though.
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The person who made that comment should ask herself what the market for her company's products would look like without rental.
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Went back to renting for one trip this year as a 'test' vs taking my own. Took my own on the second trip.
Renting:
Less hassle on the journey, and no ski carriage fee
no need to wax and edge my skis
no worries about skis being nicked or damaged (took out the ski hire insurance option)
BUT
Back to the hassle of queuing up to hire, wasted about 40 mins on day one.
Limited selection of skis available (small hire shop in Saalbach)
Cost about £90 for the week
Skis reasonably well prepped and in fair nick, but not as good as my own
Owning:
Certain of what skis i would be using (B2's MMMmmmm  )
Certain of their state of tune and service (thanks to SpyderJons excellent tuition)
No time wasted queuing in a hire shop
Skis also insured so loss or damage not a real concern
Cost of transport £57 but taking skis and boot bag gave me much more capacity for other gear within my overall weigh limit, It's really a struggle to fit boots into a check in limit of 15Kg when they weigh 3 and the case weighs 5!
Overall I will be taking my own skis in future, the cost of taking them is more than outweighed by the savings in hire costs and 'faff' and it's much nicer to be sure of what you will be skiing. However if I didn't already own ski's I would think twice about buying as the saving is marginal.
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| Axsman wrote: |
Cost about £90 for the week |
Is that typical of rental prices? I paid £250 for my Magfires. I'm just glad that hiring cars at GVA doesn't cost more than the third of the retail cost of the car for the pleasure of using it for one week!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Prefer having my own skis but I am in the luxury position of being an instructor and gettin cheap ski kit, and can have 2 pairs of skis. but I do see the advantage of just renting for people. I would always reccomend my students to buy good ex rental skis as if you know the right shop and what you are looking for you can pick up some great stuff away.
I Dont think the rental market will kill ski sales but I do think prices will have to drop at retail for people to start buying again
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| Quote: |
Cost about £90 for the week
Is that typical of rental prices?
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Paid 65€ for a week's ski hire, took own boots.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar,
Just checked with Ski set for a weeks ski hire in La Rosiere (this was a purely hypothetical example  ) .
'Silver' without boots €53.20
'Gold' €69.30
'Platinum' €80.50
As a comparison I also looked at the same deal in Ischgl:
'Silver' without boots €97.60
'Gold' €122.40
'Platinum weren't offered.
Then you have to add damage/theft waiver. BTW these are the 'discounted' web prices , the 'public' prices are about 25% more! (does anyone actually pay them?)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I just paid (in Morzine) 172 Euro to hire a snowboard for my nine year old for 5 days. Outrageous, and the boot hire was extra.............
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You know it makes sense.
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| kyoto49 wrote: |
| I just paid (in Morzine) 172 Euro to hire a snowboard for my nine year old for 5 days. Outrageous, and the boot hire was extra............. |
That is staggering. You can rent a 15 grand car for roughly the same money.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We used to take our own skis - now we don't and I can't see us buying more in the near future because:
1. Its a lot of luggage to carry and fit in the car with 2 kids so we would need roof rack on the car to get them to the airport, and would probably want to remove the rack before leaving the car in a long term car park - which means hassle at both ends of the journey probably in the cold, damp, dark on the way out.
2. We would need a much bigger car or a ski rack on the hire car
3. The carriage charge for skis (even two in each bag) plus the need to service them when you only ski for a week seems quite high
4. at least for another 2 years assuming Snowell keep the same deal, our sons skis, boots, and helmet are free as long as at least one of us hires skis.
5. we aren't experts. although I do feel more confident on my own skis (20yrs old now!) we don't need the latest and greatest gear - and the first time I tried carvers I had the wrong length - because I had rented it wasn't a problem, but if I had bought them I would have been stuck
We paid £134 to rent 4 sets of skis & poles, 3 pairs of boots and 2 helmets (both kids sets were free this year). I am sure the extra cost on the hire car, servicing and carriage would be more than that.
The only thing that would persuade me is that you can get on the slopes quicker if you have your own kit - so it could make a difference between skiing the first day and not skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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kyoto49, that is staggering
I've (just) pre-paid €222 for three sets of skis, boots, helmets for our kids for 6 days hire. Including their insurance against all forms of damage! For kids I wouldn't do anything but hire.
I own my skis, but probably only change every 4-5 years. Too expensive for me to do anything but.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kyoto49 wrote: |
| I just paid (in Morzine) 172 Euro to hire a snowboard for my nine year old for 5 days. Outrageous, and the boot hire was extra............. |
Oh dear - I hope it was a really good one (or that you can cancel)
If you book an adult board with Snowell you get a 'teenager' board with boots & helmet for free. The cheapest adult board is 108E for 9 nights.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skimom wrote: |
| kyoto49 wrote: |
| I just paid (in Morzine) 172 Euro to hire a snowboard for my nine year old for 5 days. Outrageous, and the boot hire was extra............. |
Oh dear - I hope it was a really good one (or that you can cancel)
If you book an adult board with Snowell you get a 'teenager' board with boots & helmet for free. The cheapest adult board is 108E for 9 nights. |
Sorry - just realised it was a 9yrs old for 5 nights, not the other way round... in that case the price is only 70E (sorry, don't want to upset you - but even if you missed out this year its worth knowing for next year as the free kit is for up to 10yrs olds).
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or if you don't need the adult board then the kids one is 62E
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 25-02-09 12:41; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sorry - I think I was pressing the quote rather than the edit... took me a while - but its sorted now?
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| Quote: |
Sorry - just realised it was a 9yrs old for 5 nights, not the other way round... in that case the price is only 70E (sorry, don't want to upset you - but even if you missed out this year its worth knowing for next year as the free kit is for up to 10yrs olds).
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This is great marketing because very few adults and teenagers will book boards together! Its normally parents on skis and kids on boards. But as boarders get older I am sure this will change  as the average age of boarders gets higher and they are more likley to have kids boarding with them as opposed to old ski fogies bringing their cool kids boarding
Bode Swiller, That is a brilliant example and really puts it all in context.
Great thing about bringing your own skis is that you can stuff the bag with all your extra stuff avi gear etc
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Last week in Vallandry we paid 340E for 1 set of adult skis and skis+boots for 2 children. Insurance was 45E on top. This is where you really notice the new exchange rate.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Last week in Arabba, for my two late-teens / early twenties kids : two "Silver" skis and boots with insurance for 7 (NOT 6) days = €140. As far as I could gather the skis only would be about €55. As for the reasons described above by sevral people, when my skis expire I will not be replacing them. The kids skis were very good performance skis, in great nick and really well serviced.
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I had my own skis but have now sold them and have no intentions of replacing them. They were getting a bit old-fashioned despite my only having used them for 4 weeks and didn't really suit my skiing any more. By renting I can take advantage of newer equipment and it works out cheaper in the long run: Cost of old skis minus sale value on ebay divided by four weeks plus four lots of airline carriage adds up to more than four weeks of ski hire...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Isn't this just self-serving toss from a manager of a leading discount rental shop saying what a fantastic service he offers? And production of almost everything has shifted to Asia - simple economics.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Given the cost of carrying skis on flights, maybe this should read "airline baggage charges are killing ski makers". I can't believe the rental market is that big since the majority of the market must be mostly brits. After having paid £115 to rent just skis for 8 days in les arcs this season, I can't see how this happens. OK, they were decent skis but the price is still crazy! This is the first time I have rented in recent years as there was no way for me to take my own pairs with me.
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I've pre-booked my skis (superior quality) for six days in Courmayeur for £60. There seems to be a huge difference in rental pricing between resorts. Yet again it looks like the French mega-resorts are hiking prices...
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You know it makes sense.
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queen bodecia, did you see the prices above for Ischgl? it's not just the French.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Actually has anyone just showed up at a hire shop and hired without booking? I can't believe the '25% discounts' offered for pre-booking on line are genuine, but I'd really like to know for sure.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Axsman, Ischgl is one of those resorts I'd love to visit one day but it's out of my price range in every respect...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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queen bodecia, You can do ischgl on the cheap if you stay at Galtur just down the valley. There's a free bus runs every morning and the accodation there is significantly cheaper.
Oh and don't drink jagerbombs either -they add up quickly (and you quickly lose count) !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting. I don't think many TOs offer Galtur so choice might be limited, but certainly worth a look in future. Ta...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GB & I skiers will obviously have a skewed view on this compared to our continental cousins but if ski makers really wanted to boost ownership they should pressurise or lobby the airlines re free or cheaper ski carriage.
Its a bit rich to moan about rental killing the market when the volume manufacturers are the ones chucking vast quantities of rental slop into those shops.
I would be surprised there is a "trend" to rental other than that more indie short breakers might rent in addition to owning as economics and convenience dictate.
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Axsman, DIY not an option for me as I am a solo traveller. Every time I've priced it up it's been way more expensive...
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supply and demand wil cure everything.. eventually
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| narc wrote: |
| Given the cost of carrying skis on flights, maybe this should read "airline baggage charges are killing ski makers". I can't believe the rental market is that big since the majority of the market must be mostly brits. After having paid £115 to rent just skis for 8 days in les arcs this season, I can't see how this happens. OK, they were decent skis but the price is still crazy! This is the first time I have rented in recent years as there was no way for me to take my own pairs with me. |
I couldn't agree more. I do a fair number of weekend/long-weekend trips, and it's getting to the point where the cost of renting and the cost of schlepping my own is about the same. The only thing that's keeping it close is the exorbitant price of rentals. I would add to that the lack of transparency in exactly what their rental classifications mean.
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If skis are not selling, I very much doubt it's got much to do with the ski rental market. Anyone who skis more than 2 weeks per year and considers it a hobby rather than a casual holiday will always buy their own skis. If these people are not buying skis it means that:-
a) They have no spare cash for new skis - probably the most likely reason right now
b) They don't think the new skis are significantly better than their current skis
If the rental market is booming, it probably means there is an increase in the number of casual holiday skiers, who I would imagine make up the vast majority of rental sales.
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FAQ
at least Dick Turpin had the common decency to wear a mask and carry a gun when he robbed people 
