 Poster: A snowHead
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Well...I returned from Chatel France New Year with the above injury, stretchered off slopes....in a full leg cast for 3 wks, now in a donjoy legend 4 pt knee brace for 4 wks, no weight bearing......consultant won't tell me anything, whether he is going to or not going to operate??? Tore medial colateral ligament, ruptured anterior cruciate ligament.......no idea if they are going to operate does anyone know anyone who has been through similar from skiing injury? 
Anyone know any sites to get information off other skiiers with similar injuries.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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marisa40, what a sad first post. But welcome to snowHeads anyway. If you play around with the search function, you'll find lots of relevant stuff on here. Hope you find lots more to entertain you while you're immobilised.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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marisa40, welcome to snowheads  I think this should be in the piste and one of the mods will probably move it there.
If you do a forum seach you'll find loads on acl etc
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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marisa40, welcome to SnowHeads.
Why won't they tell you anything? I suppose they may not know yet what they are going to do, but surely they have told you that much? Go to your next appointment armed with a list of written questions, and don't leave until they are answered.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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thanks everyone for the prompt replies brought a few awaited tears.....not nice being like this as you can imagine and my family are not used to me being so inactive....will look for these forums not used to the site yet....just desperate and don't know how long I am going to be like this....
 nice to hear from you all......
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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marisa40, sorry to hear that. Welcome to snowheads.
My wife had the same injury on her fourth day of skiing ever. She was dead-set that she wanted an operation to get back to full fitness and went to several doctors until she found one that would do it. Some of the doctors told her she wouldn't need one unless she did high-level sports. However, she's a doctor, so having read up on everything, she felt that doing the op would be much better for her in the long term.
It's not an easy recovery but she did the op, did the post-op rehabilitation religiously, and was 100% fit afterwards (and took up skiing again).
I guess the moral is to get second and third opinions if you're not convinced by what you hear.
Good luck!
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Did she have to pay for private medical help to get these other appts. with other doctors.......having never been in this position before I don't know what to do....glad she is better and glad to hear she is skiing again... something I do not want to give up.....Any advice on what I can do or say when I go in a week Monday I really want to have the op. as I want to get back to full fitness too. Thanks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Got it thanks, hope u do too!
Read Sue's comment about the uk docs writing her off to the blue badge carpark on that forum, how can they do this....how would they feel if they had to suffer for yrs to come just because they feel it isn't that necessary.... if they don't know u how can they know how much sport means to u.... how can they make these decisions????
Christ I'm not asking for a facelift, or a tummy tuck, it's my bl***y knee........ 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ACL yeah but combined with grade 3 torn mcl......does that mend on it's own without surgery. u hear so much about acl but not when combined.....nd does he mean the surgery is routine then why won't my doc tell me n e thing??
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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marisa40, have you had an MRI scan yet? if not, they may not know for sure exactly what the damage is
my own experience was that they did not push me very hard in one direction or the other but when i said i was a pretty serious skier and wanted to do that in future they said the operation would be a good idea
having your ACL repaired is a pretty unpleasant operation but it is pretty routine these days
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marisa40, I am not a knee surgeon. Bullard was out for 18 months before with a much bigger knee injury as well. Seems to be talk of either 'repair' and 'replace in these instances - but I might be completely off the mark.
Best wishes anyway. Try to keep a positive frame of mind. Don't let it get you down too much.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Good idea to have private medical cover in these circumstances to prevent NHS cheapskating over clinical desirability.
First thing is IMO don't rush into anything and let swelling go down as I think you get a better result though no doubt yoiu can do your own research on clinical studies. My surgeon (who had worked with Steadman in Vail) thought the US (&CH) approach of trolleying people straight into theatre from the slopes was not particularly desirable.
Consultant probably has to see a clear MRI before he can make a decision. FWIW I skied for years on no ACL before having it done but everyones' mileage seems to vary on this one.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'v had an mri scan and he clearly knows what damage is done.......I won't be put down by my age, I spent yrs in the forces serving my country, and working since I left paying all my taxes, never had to have surgery or nhs treatment......always kept fit, brought 3 children up and gone to the gym, cycled all my life, why should I be put down just because I'm over 40. Just because you are young shouldn't give you a ticket for better care than us over 40's....I can tell you I have more energy than most girls I know who are 20 yrs younger....not that I want to compete.......quite upset that this view should be taken, and if it is taken it's a general view and I will fight it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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marisa40, Worth emphasising that tennis, running & skiing are your main hobbies, you work in a circus as a trampolinist and you'll have to take up smoking, alcohol & smack if you can't do them 
Have a grown up conversation next time you see him. It may not be cheapskating it may simply be that he genuinely believes that you can make a near full recovery with conservative treatment and that due to your previous level of activity your muscles are capable of coping. Remeber any surgery is not necessarily a slam dunk and can take longer to recover from than the original injury.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi fb
I sometimes wonder if people understand how fit u can be even with age.....i will be havin a very grown up conversation with him....I did try but didn't have as much knowledge then as now....
thanks
agenterre, fb, nick l, and eveyone else........
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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a few other things to consider
- they don't usually rush you into surgery; a common protocol is to wait for all the swelling to go down, for the patient to do physio to rebuild some of the muscle mass and improve range of movement and only THEN have the operation. some people go without an ACL for years then decide to have it done
- it is a grim injury all round because you have to go through 2 rehabs if you have the repair - one after the injury and one after the op. this is one reason why docs don't get everyone to have the repair
- i am not sure what the usual protocol for a grade 3 MCL tear is. certainly up to grade 2 it repairs on its own
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i am not sure what the usual protocol for a grade 3 MCL tear is. certainly up to grade 2 it repairs on its own
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I had a minor tear in the mcl (I assume that was a grade 1 or 2, not sure what that means though?) many years ago playing footy. Knee swelled up like a basketball and for a few years afterwards it still gave me problems. But it did heal by itself although even now, 15 years later, I still get a little twinge when it gets very cold. Contrast that with a good friend of mine who had a major tear of his a few years before (same cause, football injury) who went to the doctor and was told if he had snapped it completely then he could get it done on the NHS but as he could still walk there was nothing they could do on the NHS! Poor bloke had to give up footy which was a shame as he was an outstanding player. It's a horrible injury for sure but if it's not a major tear then, as you say, it can repair itself eventually.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Been through it 5 times now and am still skiing and still active. They tend to look at quality of life more than age these days. You should have no trouble finding an experienced KNEE specialist, as opposed to a general orthopaedic surgeon. Always ask what their speciality is or go to the Knee Geeks forum (www.Kneeguru.co.uk) and read up on the knee anatomy as well as all the alternatives. It is much easier surgery these days but the rehab is a hard slog. I've returned to skiing after a revision in August 2008 of a badly done recon. Did it in just over 6 months too and only 6 weeks off work.
Most important thing I have learnt is to have as much mobility (called ROM -range of movement) as possible BEFORE any surgery and as little swelling as possible. The MCL is capable of repairing itself for some strange reason. There is no repair for a ruptured ACL - it has to be reconstructed using either a graft made from tissue from your body or donor tissue (autograft versus allograft). You could do without it if you have really good muscles around the knee but any loss of muscle and no ACL will result in even more damage and eventually you will damage the cartilaginous surfaces on the tibia and femur where they meet - end result arthritis.
Good luck - get it done as soon as you can then you won't miss next season's snow!
Sue
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thanks sue
i will be seeing him in a wk and will be armed with plenty of questions and will be demanding reconstruction asap.....perhaps this is why he is waiting for the mcl to heal and the swelling to go down....and for rehab and movement to be regained....that makes more sense. And the rehab after surgery only 6 mths and only 6 wks off work, brilliant....yes next season can't wait.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Samerberg Sue,
Complete thread hyjack but is your username on kneegeeks 'kaput knee' by any chance?
marisa40,
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why should I be put down just because I'm over 40. Just because you are young shouldn't give you a ticket for better care than us over 40's...
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My knee man has promised to replace my ACL if I decide I need it any time before my 80th birthday. The day before I met him he'd fixed the ACL of a woman in her mid sixities (on the NHS) so yes it can be done.
So far I'm managing happily without it (in-fact my 'good knee' gives me more problems) and am back to skiing, sailing, cycling & even thinking of running again - although that's been more a meniscus issue.
Good luck, try to stay positive and go visit the kneegeek forum on www.kneeguru.co.uk where you'll find lots of support, information and inspiring stories.
Sharon
Crikes just realised I mention kneegeeks so often that I'm begining to sound like a pimp for them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I didnt injure myself skiing but did tear my ACL and MCL stopping and twisting playing football, so i guess quite a similar injury.
I was in BUPA but didnt get sick pay from work so tried everything to get fit without surgery.
MRI scan was inconclusive, surgeon said even a keyhole inspection would lay me up for a couple of weeks (this coincided with my engagement and new house purchase, oh and also a brand new car).
At this point i could hobble around as long as i didnt step with my weight on the outside of my left leg. If i did i would just collapse immediately. Even though i tried hard i would still collapse in agony a few times a week. Surgeon asked if i wanted to try physio or go straight for surgery. Obviously with my circumstances i chose physio.
I got the England rugby teams ex physio. Had sessions on a tens machine and physio. Unusually for me i kept to the programme and within a few months i was okay. I have since skied loads without any problems besides the usual twinges everyone gets from working it hard on the slopes.
All i would suggest in conclusion is to take your time and this late in the season why not try physio to see if you can build it back up. if that doesnt work you will still have time for an op and rehab to get on the slopes next season.
Whichever way you decide i wish you well.
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It is worth considering that a lot of joint problems (particularly in the over 40s) can be down to Arthritis,
aka, wear and tear.
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You know it makes sense.
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ski-injury.com knees Scroll down - there's a whole lot on ACL - in cluding treatment and prevention. Welcome to sHs. I hope your knee eventually recovers well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I won't be put down by my age, I spent yrs in the forces serving my country, and working since I left paying all my taxes, never had to have surgery or nhs treatment......always kept fit, brought 3 children up and gone to the gym, cycled all my life, why should I be put down just because I'm over 40.
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i will be seeing him in a wk and will be armed with plenty of questions and will be demanding reconstruction asap....
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My commiserations on your injury. May I suggest that there may be a little room for deliberation. If you consultant "won't tell me anything" because he won't then shame on him - if it is because he can't yet make a reasoned decision then be thankful that you have an orthopaedic surgeon who is will to give the situation thought and time to evolve (they are not all like that). I can understand your frustration but rushing won't do any good in the long run - if it is as nasty an injury as it sounds you may have to spend a long time getting right. If I understand the feeling of other posters correctly that "they can fix anything these days" sadly not true - do enough damage and it can be too much - that seems usually to be the preserve of motorcyclists.
I am a slightly concerned about you demanding an operation asap - would that be before my elderly patients who fought through Normandy or spent time in Far East POW camps and are now awaiting knee replacements (I have both)? Sorry if my contribution appears confrontational but it not intended as such - it is intended to offer a note of caution.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Have you actually asked your surgeon these questions that you obviously have?? It is easy to say that your consultant hasn't told you anything but you can ask as well. The NHS has a policy of concordance i.e patients also have some responsibility for their treatment and management. The NHS is a good thing , and with the 18 week wait, nearly everything is completed within a sensible time scale. (18 weeks from referral to definitive treatment) it is not unreasonable to try a conservative approach in the first place as many have already stated.
Best of Luck
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi Marisa40..
Here's my 10 peneth!
I am currently in Fernie BC (Canada) doing a ski instructor course. Three weeks ago, I was messing around on a virtually flat piste, doing 360 degree turns (on the snow, not in the air!!).. I fell awkwardly, and have totally snapped my ACL, I have grade III damage to both my LCL and MCL and have torn my meniscus (cartilage).. I would love to have the required ACL reconstruction surgery here in Canada but the wait times are vast, so I'm thinking I will end up going home, going private, so that I can try to repeat my course next year. The MRI I had here confirmed the fears of the A&E doctor. I've been seeing a physio since then, and a kinesioslogist and have pretty much full range of movement now so am now researching braces, skiing for the remainder of my season (its finally snowing, the legendary Fernie POWDER has arrived) and if the rest of the intact ligements go.. heck, I have to have surgery anyway, so the surgeon can fix everything while he's got me cut open!
I haven't enquired about getting the treatment on the NHS because I assume the waiting list is longer than I am prepared to wait, but I really don't think being 40 should rule you out? I am also 40 and will join the list while I research private ortho's on my return!
I'm not sure if you're in UK or still abroad? If you're still abroad, can't you get your insurance to pay? Mine would pay if I could get treatment here.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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marisa40, - sorry to hear your bad news.
I went through similar last April (only ACL) and paid for my own op at the end of May (decided chances of NHS op would take too long as I wanted to ski again this year) - BTW I'm 54!!
Will be skiing again at the end of the season (had been OKed for earlier start, but thought it was prudent to delay a little)
You'll find loads of useful info on this website - http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/ - loads of people posting their details, and giving each other lots of help & support - almost as compulsive viewing as snowheads 
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