 Poster: A snowHead
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I very much suspect we will get it over the second easter week in VT, and having previously experienced it I'm not overboard with the notion of skiing on it yet. Does anyone have tips for dealing with the 0830 corduroy that you can wake up to in VT at this time of year please? That stuff that you skitter down to the bottom of the Oxalys slope turn round and look at and isn't even dented with a mark from the edge of your ski. Its noisey, clatter-y, gives you the sensation that your ski could easily go off in any direction if you're not careful and is bloody fast to boot.
My skiing partner's take on it will be to tell me not to be a whus and get on with it, and yes, when I have to I can, but is there anything to do to make skiing on it any easier please, esp. when it gets steeper? Please assume that waiting until lunchtime isn't an option!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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wait until tea time 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, that stuff is not very nice. If it's like that, you need a bit of a lie in, a long warm shower, a leisurely breakfast and a 10 am start. Make a rendezvous with anyone who wants to go out and skitter around on the hardpack.
However, round here (we're a bit lower than VT) the lack of overnight freeze - for some days now - means the slopes are fine from early on. We packed up at 2pm today, as the pleasant slooshy slushy stuff turned to glue. Late lunch - complete waste of good snow to be lunching earlier.
If you have to ski it my own approach is to be gentle and progressive with edges, stay well balanced over your skis, keep the weight on the downhill ski, go slowly and not try to do anything clever. But there are probably better ways......
And don't tell yourself it's "ice" because it isn't, and that word just doesn't help.  There's no ice around here at the moment, thankfully.
One last tip - make sure your false teeth are well stuck in.
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Megamum, put extra glue in your teeth fillings before you start. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, two options, learn to ski with race spec skis which like rock hard snow or get up later in the morning when it's a little softer, most people will choose the latter option 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Get on a snowboard with blunt edges 1st morning. After that you'll welcome the luxury of skis.
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fatbob, never a truer word . . . 
Megamum, 'angulation'
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, I'd rather ski on that than on the soup that the lower slopes at VT are turning into later in the day! I just can't turn in that soup at all - reckon it's quite easy to do oneself an injury in it
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Remember it well! I wimped out when I found I could go round the back of the Oxalys instead! Hope you have a great time!
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 4-04-09 21:27; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Villz, the trick to soup is: keep the skis pointed in the same direction as the body is moving. <- not a joke.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, sharp edges, a bit of aggression, extra angulation and extra force on turn in.
Anyway, icy (Pam W - I would submit that it is ice...) corduroy is a joy compared to icy ex-slushy bumps...
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Megamum, Have a lie in ? I side slipped a run today on my twin tips before swapping to Slalom skis for the day.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cordoruy - just ski normal turns.... Normal skiing with good balance (esp lateral) and no shoving of skis will get you there fine...
Corduruy is good.... Death cookies coating slopes is baaaaaad.....
At home we have slush most days after 11 or 12 (depending where you go) and hence refrozen most mornings.... What I was told
1) Get out and ski it - you get better with experience
2) Relax... stiffening up does not help it removes your natural "shock absorption" to help smooth out the wobbles...
I used to deliberately get up and be on the hill at 830am every day to learn to deal with the firm surface and death cookies and the odd ice ...
It does improve with mileage and technique...
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes, I must agree death cookies are worse than undentable cordoruy. I've done death cookies too - at least I think that's what they were - the icy lumps that fall out of the tracks of the piste bashers and then freeze in that shape, yes?
D G Orf, The Rossis that I used in December were getting v. close to race spec skis, I didn't get the rock hard cordoruy, but we did a red that had developed a very flat shear surface as all the fresh powder had blown off it in the wind storm the day previous. I have to say that the skis felt incredibly positive on that sort of surface - I think more so than my own ones would have done - so much so that if those 6 numbers come up on Wednesday I'll buy a pair while I'm in VT.
little tiger, You could be right about exerience helping at the moment I think it is a lack of trust in the ability of my edges to key into a surface that they don't apparently mark. They should be sharp enough as they are being serviced prior to each use, but that surface just seems to be so un-keyable I worry that the skis will just slide when I lean on the edge that is supposed to be cutting in. However, I am encouraged that you think that normal turns will hold on, maybe I just need a little confidence on the surface and all will be fine.
Thanks all for the rest of the comments - trip report will no doubt follow when I am back so you will no doubt find out how I coped.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Can you rebook your trip to Colorado? We don't even know what that is!
Outside of that suggestion, the best things you can do to minimise the damage is to:
1) Develop your fore/aft and lateral balance skills, and assume a center balanced stance with the majority of your weight on your outside ski. This will allow the entire length of your skis to share equally in engaging and absorbing the chatter,,, and let your long and strong outside leg do most of the work.
2) Work on developing your steering skills. You should try to keep your skis pointing in the direction of travel as much as possible. I call it narrow track steering, because you leave a very narrow track in your wake (in snow soft enough to leave a track). When you get your skis pointing more sideways to your direction of travel (called wide track steering) your skis slide sideways, and all those frozen corduroy ripples will rattle your teeth out.
3) Eliminate the pivot at the beginning of your turns. A pivot will put you into an immediate wide track steer turn. From number 2 above, we know that's not good.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sat 4-04-09 19:57; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Megamum, There you go, what more proof do you need to see that stay in bed until late is the best advice
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing, well, I guess there are a lot of arguments that enter into the equation when considering the 'stay in bed' stance
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Early morning hardpack ( rock hard corduroy ..? ) shouldn't a problem.......... kind of sets the tone for the day's sking and is a good thing IMV.
Treat it as a challenge and once you can ski this well, you are on your way...
Decent edging will do for this...
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| Quote: |
Pam W - I would submit that it is ice..
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I prefer to think of it as not ice - in my book ice is green and shiny and impossible to get an edge into. That rock hard corduroy is frozen slush. Ice is frozen water.
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chill, don't worry about it and follow the sun......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Megamum wrote: |
little tiger, You could be right about exerience helping at the moment I think it is a lack of trust in the ability of my edges to key into a surface that they don't apparently mark. They should be sharp enough as they are being serviced prior to each use, but that surface just seems to be so un-keyable I worry that the skis will just slide when I lean on the edge that is supposed to be cutting in. However, I am encouraged that you think that normal turns will hold on, maybe I just need a little confidence on the surface and all will be fine.
Thanks all for the rest of the comments - trip report will no doubt follow when I am back so you will no doubt find out how I coped. |
Yep that stuff has a certain "grittiness" to the feel - not like the "green ice" Pam W is talking about - and very different from a water injected race course (I can attest to this having taken a wrong turn down the race course in Whistler the day after the Canadian champs and skied top to bottom down Whistler on firm corduroy the morning before)
Remember it does not need to make a huge track to hold.... as long as you arrange it so the forces are pushing into the snow not across the surface
You have a science degree and know about vectors... I'm sure you can work it out - but if you lean UP the hill you will be pushing the ski DOWNHILL... make sure you really are balanced over that inside edge of the outside ski....
My instructor had a good description... think of using a sharp knife on a block of ice.... if you make a smooth cut drawing the blade along the block you can leave a mark and the knife will not skip/slide about.... If you put any side ways force the knife is going to skip across the block... If you push down HARD and especially SUDDENLY how will the knife behave? Probably skip/slide around? Just like the knife - gradual pressure and keep it moving FORWARD - just as you would draw the knife across rather than just attempt to "chop" down... make sure you are pressing in a DOWN INTO SNOW direction - and remember that is in relationship to the snow surface - not vertical to gravity...
Also remember stiff body will transmit all the vibration up to you and make the skis have more chance to skip around (they get knocked out of the little track they make)... So try things that will help relax you (kafi Lutz is good ... small bounces(not quite a hop) are what my canadian guy liked - get the legs working as shock absorbers...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, this technique works for me - can't remember the name, but I was taught it by Gavin Crosbie at EurekaSKI in Serre Chevalier.
Start with a side-slip, crouch, and when you need to turn, stand quickly and rotate both feet at the same time, keeping the skis flat to the hill; when you're round, crouch again. Repeat. If you feel you're going too fast, edge up to a stop and start from square 1. It's important to go from crouch to stand and from stand to crouch quickly; on the up it gives you the lightness to get the skis round fast; on the down, it stops you from slipping too fast.
The same technique can be used where things are a little too steep for your liking.
Enjoy, and remember that the rock-hard corduroy only ever lasts around 30 minutes 
See you a week on Saturday!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| wait until tea time |
That's good advice. Take a leisurely breakfast, enjoying being in the mountains and wait until the snow is a bit more civilised. At the end of the day stop for an afternoon drink at Plein Sud a little bit earlier than usual, avoiding the slush and giving more opportunity to enjoy being in the mountains and for tequila ice cream.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Rail it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Rail it. |
Explanation, Mr Spock?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Put me in the "get out and ski it camp". You'll develop better balance and weight distribution that will benefit your all-round skiing. I also agree with using some nice stiff skis.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, carve. Needs good edges, a torsionally stiff ski to keep the edges dug into the snow and good turn initiation feeling for the biting point of the ski. Slamming the edges in with the skis sideways to the slope will mean you judder and slip. Gently applying pressure with the skis pointing the direction you're going and angulating will help your skis to grip.
Skis really do make a difference. Yesterday morning on the Grands Montets was pretty hard in places on piste, and the Bandit SC80s I took out from the UCPA (they hadn't finished prepping my Legend Pros after a few large rock dings from the day before) were a nightmare. The day before it was just as hard as well but the LPs ate it up. Having said that the Bandits were a lot easier to handle in the very heavy couloir we took down off the mountain. Horses for courses.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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"Be gentle with the snow and the snow will be gentle with you". I'm not totally sure what this means but my instructor told me this and it worked if only in a Zen mantra sort of way. Ps it was an off piste course so it may not work so well in these circs! 
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achilles, Rail it Scotty
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PsychoBabble, probably not. Sorry.
Sideshow_Bob, yep, over cooking the cookie will result in sliding - just like with cars. Easy, gentle transitions required (and frankly even then it doesn't always work, in which case spoofing required...)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Last week I skied with a few people who felt you couldnt carve this stuff. I was able to demonstrate that you can. It is all about angulation really. Most intermediate/advanced skiers THINK they angulate much more than they actually do. Seeing yourself on video can help you realise how much further you can go.
J
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FAQ
- it will be my last day on snow this season, but spending time with some of the bashers will be good compensation 
-ski on until 3 ish and then more beer. Off to Zermatt on the 18th and that my friends will be my recipe for a week of Spring ski-ing. Early starts are for December - early March to get fresh tracks -April is for chilling 