 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi all,
I'm new on here so be gentle!
I am looking to take the family, 2 adults and 3 kids under 9, skiing for the first time late this year / early next. To keep costs down the likelihood is we will drive to a self catering chalet, probably in the Avoriaz area as this is what a skiing friend has advised. We are restricted to school hols and are thinking of going either the week that includes New Year or Feb half term.
So, is Avoriaz ok for beginners? Anywhere more suitable?
Am I right in assuming that Christmas / New Year is less busy but has a high risk of no snow, whereas half term would be fairly guaranteed snow but would be incredibly busy? When people talk about busy, how long would you typically queue for the lifts? Are we talking 10 mins? 1/2 an hour? Longer?
Any help greatly appreciated, this could be an expensive mistake if I get it wrong!
Many thanks,
David.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
captaindarling, I'd definitely avoid New Year. Too cold for newbies (and many oldbies), on average. Short days and dark afternoons at close of play.
Feb half term is fine for skiing, but is peak season.
I have alway taken my family skiing at Easter. Usually great weather. High ski areas like Avoriaz usually have near-maximum snow depths in late March or early April. Long days. Temperatures much milder and friendlier. If you pitch your trip to commence on the Easter weekend, the crowds disappear by mid-week.
Many other resorts like La Plagne and Arc 1800 are ideal for beginners. You can usually get good late deals for the second week of the Easter school holiday, too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Hello. Welcome to Snowheads. Not been here long myself. As far as I was aware New Year is the busiest time of the year, Feb half term slightly less so. We skied over the New Year this year, Alpe D'huez, and to be honest with you, yes, queuing for a lift is a pain but not overly so. We only ski in the morning as we dont want to put our daughter in creche all day, but if you are able to ski most or all of the day then dont worry, you will get loads of skiing in. I would say a half hour long queue is about right during a busy period. Feb you will have a better chance of snow. New years day was great as the morning was really quiet, everyone still in bed with hangovers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
captaindarling, welcome to 
Christmas week is generally much quieter than New Year and Half Term.
Unless you are teachers then take them out of school. The end of January will see you have MUCH quieter and safer slopes for you all. Smaller ski school classes, quieter transfers, cheaper lessons, and far cheaper and better holiday experience
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
captaindarling, welcome to s!!!
New Year will be very busy, however, February is almost unbearable in France. Having said that, I found the PdS (of which Avoriaz is a part) was not too bad for lift lines, even at peak season. It would still be better in the middle of January, but hey ho.
I would disagree with the statement "high risk of no snow" - whilst the snow is less consistent through the years at New Year, it is usually skiable, if slightly patch on a couple of runs. Avroiaz is high, so they should be blessed with tempeatures low enough throughout November and December to lay man-made snow down on the main runs, so whatever happens (barring the apocalypse), you'll have snow to ski on.
Also worth noting that despite being damn expensive, NY is cheaper than February (and Christmas cheaper, and quieter, than NY).
The first lift up in the morning might be a half hour wait if there's only one main way up; I seem to remember, however, that Avoriaz has a few lifts going in different directions (unlike Morzine which has a chairlift, but one main gondola to the main plateau) so it shouldn't be horrific, though still expect a 15-20 minute wait. For the rest of the day it should flow a bit better, but 5-10 minutes is usual.
So, a little annoying at times, a bit busier, a bit more waiting, but still well worth it if it is the only time you can really make. Easter is also a possibility and much quieter, however it can be a bit warmer and may have ice in the morning and slush in the afternoon (then again, you can also get lots of powder days at the start of April).
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 4-02-09 13:02; edited 3 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'd echo the comments of David Goldsmith and Frosty the Snowman. When it's busy it's not always the lift queues that are the most daunting - the sheer volume of people on the slopes can be quite off-putting for new skiers. Christmas or Easter would be better bets if you have to stay within school hols but it is worth thinking about taking them out during term time with them all being pretty young.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hello captaindarling. For the cost of a week at half term in Europe, you could (probably) get a couple of weeks in Canada at Easter if you nick the kids out of school a few days early to avoid the Easter flight surcharges. Snow will still be great, instruction excellent, few queues (what a weird word 'queue' is), earthly paradise, etc, etc. I'd recommend Banff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
captaindarling, Nobody has really answered your main question.
I can't really answer it very well, since I have never skied at high season (having no kids, I can go when I like, and off preak is both cheaper and quieter).
But skiing off-peak periods, I have never had more than 2-3 lifts in a week where I have queued more than 5 minutes, and most of them are usually more like 1-2 minutes, with some being just ski up and get on.
Just how much worse it will be at peak periods, I'm not sure, but I would guess that bottleneck lifts could easily have half hour queues, with most lifts being 5-10 minutes. But I emphasise that is mainly guesswork on my part.
I'm not at all sure that Avoriaz (or any other large resort) is a good choice for beginners at peak periods though. It is quite a large resort with extensive links, which as beginners you are unlikley to use, but will be paying for in both lift pass and accommodation costs. You would probably be better off looking at one of the smaller resorts, and possibly even another country (such as Austria), to get both lower prices and quieter slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
captaindarling, Do not worry about snow in Avoriaz, have been out for the last two years end of November/ early December and had plenty of snow!
Best weeks for you re school holidays are Christmas (although as DG says would be cold) and easter! New year and the Half Term (4 weeks in France) would be crowded. If you really have to go during half term will be nice but you may have to wait for 10 - 15 mins to get out of the main area but would not wait too long after that.
BTW welcome to s
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Wow, so many quality responses in such a short time!
Hadn't even considered Easter - how does this compare costwise with feb half term?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
captaindarling, should be about 40% cheaper! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
captaindarling, and it is great for kids. Warmer weather, lighter nights, it rocks. Avoriaz is not a bad choice for Easter. Check Term terms as Easter is fairly early next year AIR and some schools may take off the 2 weeks after Easter as oppossed to either side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
captaindarling, I'll whisper this (as it can start a fight) but some snowheads with children of this sort of age have been known to take their kids during school term-times - very quiet and cheap.
Obviously if you or OH are teachers this isn't really and option.
Different LAs have differing views on whether this is permitted
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
In terms of time for lift queues - Feb half term is not good time. Easter can be busy to though, but the weather can also be more settled.
I would suggest going Christmas and head back soon before New Year. We have been doing this for several years now and it is so lovely to be somewhere snowy, and resorts generally do a really nice Pere Noel thing for the kids on Christmas eve. If you are newbies, don't worry about it getting dark early - TBH you will be so tired you'll want to stop! Can be cold over that period.
In terms of lift queue times, I have stood for e.g. 10 - 20 mins to load into a big gondola, and lifts that are connections to other resort sectors can be a scrum. Again, that might not be such a big issue if you are new and would not be going so far. If you are in ski school you will also get priority in lift queues in France as they tend to have separate lane to load you quickly.
I would recommend Grand Massif, Flaine [if you can stand the concrete]. The bowl in Flaine looked really nice and flat and lovely for beginners when I was there at Christmas this year. The other resorts also had a lovely familly feel, and it is only about 1 1/2 hours transfer from Geneva by car. Have a look at Samoens, Morillon etc. They have all that nice chocolate box look. Flaine is more 60s post modern.
I like Serre Chevalier, which has a lovely big bowl above the village of Chantemerle for beginners.
gOOD LUCK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Boris wrote: |
captaindarling, I'll whisper this (as it can start a fight) but some snowheads with children of this sort of age have been known to take their kids during school term-times - very quiet and cheap.
|
Obviously you don't care about your kids and are only concerned about your wallet & good time - rant , splutter, rigtheous indignation etc 
Will that do for a fight?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
captaindarling,
I am a guilty person over taking mine in term time, more than once. There are a couple of potential disadvantage if the youngsters go into ski school. If your holiday coincides with European hols or if it doesn't and some naughty Europeans have done the same, you may find your kids having communication problems in a group. Not with the instructor but between the children. If there's a large proportion who only speak French/German etc and yours are split up, or just two or three by themselves, it may be difficult for them socialising. Also if it's termtime and quiet the ski school may lump ages and/or abilities together in a big children's class. The latter did happen to us once, in Austria but after speaking with the school they put ours with the gorgeous 21 year old Swedish Truls on their own for a week. Shame I couldn't have joined them and I've never forgotten him  . Ok, they still didn't socialise with other kids, for part of the day, but they were already advanced skiers (way beyond Mum and Dad) and were even moreso by the end of the week, plus we had the advantage of meeting every day for lunches. They also seem to have survived into adulthood without being pyschologically damaged by being deserted by their parents for a few hours a day.
NY in various parts of Austria we've found it reasonably quiet and we've been there at Easter and based in Morzine which is close to Avoriaz at (an April) Easter and the snow and slopes have been quiet and perfectly skiable in the main but you can't order the weather!
I'm with alex_heney on country and resort, I think a small Austrian resort is better (but a whole new topic - or old one - if you browse the forum) but I am, and always have been, smitten by Austria and am biased.
Wherever you go and however, I am convinced you will have the holiday of your lives; there are always pitfalls to try to avoid but nothing compares to a family holiday in the mountains and on the white stuff. Enjoy!
Aneira
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I agree that Christmas and Easter are a better bet (crowds-wise) than New Year or half term. Statistically it is true that snow is likely to be better in February than at Christmas though in the past two years the reverse has been the case. I wouldn't consider a holiday at half term, both because of the insane roads, pistes and lifts, but because it's so expensive. We used to take ours out of school and go in the cheapest early January weeks.
I wouldn't do a big French resort like Flaine, especially if you end up going at half term. My daughter and son in law are teachers and went there last half term - they are both very experienced skiers, and also surfers, windsurfers etc (ie not wimps) but they were both freaked out by the combination of exceptionally crowded pistes and very poor snow (not Flaine's fault, it was poor all over last February).
A small Austrian resort sounds good - or for that matter a small French resort. However, the quality of ski school will be the key factor for you all. Which might make it worth looking at resorts with a branch of the British Alpine Ski School (BASS) or a similar outfit who guarantee small groups (I think there's one at Avoriaz).
But don't go at half term OR New Year. This year, with superb snow, our resort was most pleasantly quiet at Christmas but vastly busier at New Year (though the thought of a half hour lift queue makes my blood run cold; we only waited 30 mins in a whole day at New Year, not on one lift).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
If you're forced to go in the school holidays, choose your resort carefully "Ski Factories" like Avoriaz, Tignes, La Plagne, etc. will be unbearably busy. Pick somewhere like Sainte Foy or La Rosiere and there'll be no problems at all. Both great resorts for beginners as well. I'm biased because I run a chalet in Sainte Foy but really, Christmas/New Year had zero lift queues here. I was over in La Ros both weeks and it was the same story there, other than one or two bottle-necks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I took mine out of school the first time we went and we went to Tignes. They were in a ski school class of 6 - my two and a scottish boy (kids came home saying they were the only english ones which we were surprised at as it was supposed to be an English class), two dutch kids and a german. The class was run in English and German and some French. We also booked them into lunch club - it turned out they were the only kids in the lunch club so every day an instructor took them for lunch and then played with them in the snow or did a bit more skiing till we picked them up. At first we were unsure about this, but the instructors that took them to lunch typically didn't speak much English and so their French improved no end - as did their appetite for trying 'new' foods that they wouldn't look at if we'd suggested them - they had a much improved 'cultural' experience and the pistes were less busy.
Last year we went Thurs-Thurs in half-term so they missed just 2 days of school - we went to Samoens. The first 2 days were great, really quiet, but then it got busy - although not unbearably so. Going Thurs-Thurs saved us £600 on flights, but made accommodation a bit tricky to find to say the least - we did end up though right in the centre of Samoens for just £750 in a 2-bed apartment. Ski school was impossible to organise so we booked a private lesson to get them back in the swing of things.
This year no-one has SATS and nobody is at secondary school so we are going out of term again, and travelling Sun-Sun to get cheap flights and avoid the various footy matches that they are playing in or going to - not so difficult to find accommodation and we aren't bothering with ski school this year. Again saving £00's on accommodation and flights compared to half-term
I would say for under 9's if you can take a week out of school hols then the experience outweighs what they miss at school.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
This is great - never been on a forum where the responses are so comprehensive!
Personally I wouldn't have a massive problem taking them out of school and then making the most of the cheaper periods with all the benefits that would bring, BUT, OH is a school governer and seems to spend half her time rejecting term time holiday requests from teachers because its against school policy, which would make a term time hol for us a tad tricky. Unless they were all sick  .
Christmas week sounds like a possible - but I can't get my head around how Christmas Day / santa / presents etc would work away from home having always done the traditional 'family' thing.
So, Easter prob sounds favourite at the moment.............
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
captaindarling, we went away as a family (with next door neighbours) over Christmas a few years ago. It was absolutely fantastic. The hotel laid on a great banquet, no one had to worry about prepping the sprouts, stuffing the turkey, washing the dishes, watching an excruciating hour of Eastenders etc etc etc.
We took a small present each to open on Christmas Day (just a little token gift, rather than anything expensive or large), and skied together. We then opened any remaining gifts when we got back home - the wait made it more exciting, and let's not forget that a number of Orthodox Christian calandars have 'present opening day' on January 6th.
We genuinly had a great time and the whole experience was so much more stress-free than a usual Christmas for the ladies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Another vote for skiing at Christmas. Lovely atmosphere in resort and it somehow makes all the usual Christmas fripperies seem less important when you're in the mountains enjoying the skiing. Easter can also be good, with normally much nicer weather, longer days, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
captaindarling, Haven't read the whole thread but we have 3 kids, now about the same age as yours. We have taken them out of school for the last 4 years the first week of January. Usually the quietest and cheapest week of the year. I would envisage still taking them out of school until after the oldests 2nd year in secondary (a few years away) and then would most likey aim for Xmas week as the family week.
We drove this year for the first time and travelling in the roads were dead but it was manic the otherr side with the New Year week leaving. Heres a thread I wrote last year on our first experience of seeing the area busy for traffic. It was awful
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37979#892921
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
captaindarling,
I agree with most of the above ie Feb is crowded and expensive, New Year is pricey but in my experience less crowded and Christas lss crowded. I also like Easter for skiing.
If though you do want to go in Feb you should consider going outside France. I have skied a couple of times in France in Feb and since thenm have been elsewher. I have been going to Austria and Switzerland for a few years now and find that although not quiet is quieter than my memories of France, it is also a bit cheaper than the major French resorts. France is a great place to ski but in Feb there are cheaper less crowded alternatives.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
captaindarling,
As others have said, Easter is a good bet, becasue of the light and the relative warmth, and yes, nowhere near as busy as the Feb break ( based on photos and friend's horror stories rather than personal experience tbh). 10 min queues qoudl be almost pleaseant I fear. ( some bottle necks, even at the 'quiet times' - e.g. the Agiulle Rouge in Les Arcs 2000 can take up to 45 mins).
We also have moral high-ground problems with OH being a governor, but have had no issues about going later in the year for the past three years (other than the desperate wait whilst everyone else on here posts about the great time they are all having ... which may result in two trips next year, Christmas and Easter )
Then there is an old question: - why is it called 1/2 term, when it costs twice as much, the lifts lines are twice as long, and the pistes twice as crowded? If you can, I would seriously recommend to avoid.
Christmas and the Question: "How can Father Christmas find us when not at home?" I am told is answered by telling him in the letter, so that he either delivers early, or redirects, or leaves a pile to be found on return: depending on which is easier...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
captaindarling, one year our three kids got VERY small presents on the day, with a card telling them we were off on a surprise family ski holiday on the Saturday after New Year. Even before I got to spend the majority of the ski season in the Alps I just could not have contemplated a 45 minute lift queue. If I have more than one, or possibly two, chairs full of people in front of me when I reach a lift I feel hard done by. The big French resorts are always fairly busy, because the Brit TOs fill them up with low-season skiers when the French aren't there. The small French resorts, without any British TOs, are very quiet outside the French school hols. A friend and I had an entire big wide cruisy red run to ourselves today. The whole thing. That's quite normal. There's just no point going to a big busy place when you're a beginner who can't take full advantage of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If your in St Foy busy is when you see someone else on the piste!
It always seems to be this way, and as for queues at the lift its more of a case of chatting to the lift man waiting for someone else to join you for a chat on the way up.
But tell tell anyone
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
