 Poster: A snowHead
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I´m thinking about buying a new pair of skis to complement the SUPERB pair of Salomon Ellipse 9 boots I´ve just taken to France with me (5´7", male, 22, 67kg, fit, somewhere between advanced and expert skier, mostly Europe, like: speed, performance turns, moguls, modest jumps, off piste, and showing off stylish technique) and am currently looking at Atomic´s SX and Metron ranges, but...
... I HATE ICE!
All the rental skis I´ve ever had (with the exception of some nice Volkls) slide away from me when I hit icy patches, and more often than not I lose control, spak around like a beginner, slide down the mountain instead of ski, and end up back bottom over tit. I desperately want a pair of decent all-mountain skis which hold an edge however crap the snow. I´ve been told lots of conflicting things on the grapevine (e.g. Salomons are rubbish on ice but Rossis are amazing) and would appreciate any advice from anyone in the know who has similar feelings about ice.
As a second thing, I´ve seen some "Atomic Respection" skis advertised very cheaply on the Internet (http://www.wiredsport.com, but other companies too). The sellers claim they´re a variant on the SX10 but I´m dubious as to their quality - why would all these discount warehouses have so many of them and be selling them off so cheap if they were as good as normal SX10s? If anyone knows anything about these skis I´d be very interested in hearing your opinions.
Thanks,
Dom
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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dmott, I've been very impressed by the ability of my Head skis to turn and grip on the hardest surfaces, the only thing they've not been able to grip on is a sheet of blue ice, but I doubt that any ski could grip on that, so impressed that I've got a new pair of Head GS skis this year
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Salomons probably felt rubbish because they had too much flex, most of them do. The Volkls have a particular reputation for good handling on ice that's prety much justified, personally though (as I've been banging on before) I'm appalled by the fragility of them.
The guys I took out at the weekend hired some Heads and some Bandits both of which were fine on ice. I've got some Atomics (11.22's) and they're great but I've not tried the Metrons yet.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My old Atomics loved ice, more than snow in fact. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cheers guys, sounding like Heads and Atomics leading the way. Agree with Volkl fragility - seen more than one pair fall apart.
Anyone got any useful advice on these "Respections" then? Seems silly to buy a pair of SX10s from a shop here for 3 times the price if these ones on the internet perform as well, but I am wary of getting two useless planks of wood spray-painted Atomic colours if they don´t match up to the SX´s specs...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I used to be terrified of ice, but now I quite like its predictability. I ski on Heads, but found Rossi Bandits superb on ice too. Warning! I'm no expert!
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Not much help in deciding which but....I have Atomics and Mr HH has Heads both are fantistic in all snow conditions! I think the Heads just might have the edge....but that might just be because Mr HH is a better skier than me.... 
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IMHO Volkl 724 Pro
Endof.
Will cope admirably with all the above in the hands (feet) of a competant skiier, as long as you're not expecting Line Mothership-esque performance off piste.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise, can you point me in the direction of the whereabouts of your banging on about the fragility of Volkls - as the proud owner of a pair of trusty old P40s (which I've not managed to snap yet  ) I'd be interested to know where they are weak?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Fischer RX series or the race models are very effective on ice, as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've never really found skis particularly good or bad. That said, I can't recall skiing anything other than race skis in good tune.
IMHO Much more depends on that state of ski tune - and the skier  I'd suggest more weight on downhill ski, more angulation and a more centralled (?) stance (i.e. position where you won't fall over if you lose grip). Hated ice when I couldn't ski, rather like it now that I can ski a bit better.
Also would suggest Rossi or Atomic slalom skis - only as I like them myself. I would guess that the lower you go in terms of "ski-level" the more likely you are to find them slipping as the torsional rigidity is reduced to make them easier to ski and more forgiving. Which means you are going to compromise to an extent to get that grippy performance. Had a pair of Turquoise 7Ss in '89 that would carve ice-skate tracks on blue (frozen river) ice - most satisfying. Not a good hangover ski though (hee hee).
Anyone recall the K2 E.I.S. (Extreme Ice Ski)? Anyone ski it? Was it fun?
P.S. Very suspicious of the "Respection" - avoid avoid unless you can get to test it somehow!
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I try to avoid ice as much as possible and as I only ski in the Tartentaise valley by and large that's usually possible. The best skis I ever had for dealing with ice were a pair of K2 race skis, circa mid 90's, which were very stiff torsionally. Since then I've come to accept that most decent all-mountain skis are capable of dealing with ice, ie they have sufficient torsional strength not to twist and they are short enough not to bend too dramatically. I was a able to prove this on a very icy piste with a 77 degree pitch in La Thuile a couple of weeks ago. The pisteur who I overtook could have probably have out skied me but he was carrying 2 snow cannon nozzles at the time. I think this is more about the user than the equipment.
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You know it makes sense.
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David@traxvax, 77 degree pitch? Wow!! Didn't you fall off?
I only had to learn to like ice cos I learned and skied mostly in Scotland until I left Uni. Ice, rocks, heather, plastic, more rocks, more ice. Ah the Joys...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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obviously a typo 
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Poster: A snowHead
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ise, yeah, I thought so, but one lives in hope. Maybe there's a piccy...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Don't get Sugar Daddies!
I've discovered they _really_ don't like ice
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David No I didn't it's pista 2 down to La Thuile village which is normally just hard, this time it was hard and nasty.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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it's not 77' though is it?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The entry point most certainly is, it then gets a little easier but for about 200- 300 metres you're on one of the steepest pitches in the Alps, certainly steeper than Chavanettes, although it doesn't grow any moguls. I believe that's beacause most skieres are too terrified to turn.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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you need this I think
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I'm sorry 77deg for 200-300 M is almost a sheer drop, over that length of slope you drop vertically between 195M and 292M ? thats a blasted cliff ! Anyone who fell near the top of the slope would be dead, 300 M is 1000 ft !
Are you sure you don't meen 77% gradient that would be closer to 35 degrees, steep for skiers, the end of the Lauberhorn race track is about this angle, but not impossible. If you insist that the gradient is 77 degrees we want pictures please 
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I have bought a pair of Atomic Supercross X5 and I've got to say they are fantastic. They are 158cm (I'm a carving nut) but are very stable and great on all terrain and at £450 not too expensive for what they are. The only down side is they are bloody heavy when you're lugging them up the road after a few beers on the early one.
Brooksie
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just out of interest, where is the steepest groomed ski run in the world?
Is the Harakiri at Mayerhofen a contender at 78%?
Where is the steepest marked run? Is "the wall" at Avoriaz a contender? How steep is corbetts?
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The wall is the steepest pisted run, but I'll bet there are steeper marked runs that are not bashed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Steepest on piste I think I've skied was the top section of Ripcord at Mount Snow - apparently something like 57 degrees. Icy. And Bumpy.
I like ice and I lurve bumps and I really lurve steep, but I had to do it twice to prove to myself that I could do it more than once without chickening at the top. Just took a little more positive commitment than normally necessary.
I hear that there's a 61 degree trail on the US east coast.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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77 degrees and I'd want a rope...!!
But this is a good idea for a thread.
I seem to remember Mont Gele as pretty steep at the top and the left side of Mont fort but haven't been back there for ages. Granted there are not groomed but if you don't get there in the first few cable cars they pretty much are anyway..!!
A friend of mine says Corbett's is all about the jump in and if you have the bottle for that then skiing it is less of an issue. Haven't seen it myself but it looks about 10-15ft drop so might be able to cowboy over that if the snow was soft.
I can think of a few very steep pitches on blacks, maybe 50m or so but not the lenght of 200m plus.
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Val Mesdi is pretty steep at the top, the rule from the guides is do not fall in the first 100 metres and you will be fine. Guess what? I fell over standing looking at it, apart from that it was not too bad.
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You know it makes sense.
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Malfatta in Alagne is very steep at the entry, maybe upto 55' and guides will not let you ski it. You are roped in but that is more because of the rocks than anything else..
But then one or two colouirs that lead off of Envers du plan are very steep as well but a fall will mostly take you right to the bottom. In good snow you can stop quite quickly. It is quite narrow as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I found the atomic SX were simply outstanding on ice and very stable at speed. They were an utter nightmare in bumps, impossible off piste and short radius turn required a lot of work.
I am by no mean an expert skier though!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Boardski wrote: |
I found the atomic SX were simply outstanding on ice and very stable at speed. They were an utter nightmare in bumps, impossible off piste and short radius turn required a lot of work.
I am by no mean an expert skier though! |
Obviously not the same as my Atomic Supercross skis which are great in bumps and for short turns.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Brooksie wrote: |
| Val Mesdi is pretty steep at the top, the rule from the guides is do not fall in the first 100 metres and you will be fine. Guess what? I fell over standing looking at it, apart from that it was not too bad. |
Fairly steep, but not as steep as some of the lines JT mentions. Not as steep as the Face on the Grand Montets either which can be horrific for ice, the steepest iciest pitch I've ever skied by a long way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ise wrote: |
Fairly steep, but not as steep as some of the lines JT mentions. Not as steep as the Face on the Grand Montets either which can be horrific for ice, the steepest iciest pitch I've ever skied by a long way. |
The face must be the pitch you get to coming right out of the cable car (looking up the mountain) It is not particuarly steep, probably about 35 degrees. If you ski under the cable car from the restau it is a bit steeper, around 40 I would guess. Most blacks in the alps top out at 35 degrees even for short pitches.
As a general rule you can take most estimates, especially from tourist boards, and take a good 10 degrees of them.
Still as you mention above, if the slope is ice or verglas even a 25 pitch can be quite frightening. If you fall on ice on anything above 35 degrees it is impossible to self arrest your slide, above 45 degrees this applies to spring snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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G2 in obertauern has to be a contender for the steepest groomed run.
Bob
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
| The face must be the pitch you get to coming right out of the cable car (looking up the mountain) It is not particuarly steep, probably about 35 degrees. If you ski under the cable car from the restau it is a bit steeper, around 40 I would guess. Most blacks in the alps top out at 35 degrees even for short pitches. |
The line I mean is La Face on the Pendant glacier, it's directly under the lift. It's nearer 40' from memory and crevassed for added interest. The ice and crevasses are the real challenge of course.
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