Insurance

A snowHead

wots the best one for a family of 4 who ski 3 times a year? I'd prefer to buy one that "works" ie no squabbles when things go wrong. The wife normally books the insurance but she's asked me to ask all my net friends for any info.

Help please

A snowHead

I use the SCGB, covers you for just about anything, including unguided off-piste, however it's definitely not the cheapest. If you search the archives there's a fairly recent thread about this very subject, with some thorough (one might almost say anal!) research by my fellow snowheads.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

mij, We fit your profile (3 weeks x 4 people), plus a summer holiday to the US or France and occasional long weekend etc abroad. We've gone for Egg's multi-trip annual deal. It includes 17 day winter sports cover in the basic price. 10% discount if you have an Egg card. Seemed the best value a couple of years ago and we've renewed since, but without going through the research. Haven't needed to make a claim yet (gosh, it's difficult typing with your fingers crossed Little Angel

).

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mij, we got ours through www.direct-travel.co.uk
Cheaper than SCGB , off-piste covered, 3 levels, depending on your preferecnes. Had a claim in July, paid up quickly. A friend recommended it .

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Direct travel insurance looks good. For me, is slightly under 1/2 the price of SCGB equivalent, and with better payouts.

Thanks.

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I've got to admit, direct travel looks quite good to me too.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Just had a long trawl through direct travels web site.At first sight it looks very good.Premier European cover for us(family of 5)inc winter sports is £73/year.Looks to be very comprehensive.Payment limits look to be more than adequate(£10mil Medical inc Search&Mountain Rescue,Repatriation)£2mil third party liability.All the usual limits for delay,loss of possessions,money etc.European off piste covered anywhere so long as "local authorities deem it safe"(check first and if you tumble guess you would need confirmation that they said conditions were OK)Is this possible/practical anybody??No guide required!!Loads of other info.One little quirk I spotted;NO COVER for dryslope use!!or Bobsleigh.Gotta tell you something??All this backed by AXA,who I know to be one of the most reputable(if thats possible with insurance wink

)

There has to be a snowHead out there who can comment from inside the industry.This looks a good policy,but is it?Cant help feeling you dont get a lot for £73 quid these days;or am I being a bit sceptical??

After all it is free

Spotted something in the w/end Torygraph which said that travel agents will from January '05 no longer be able to sell insurance on its own unless they have some sort of special financial services cover/authorisation - which most indepent companies won't be able to afford. They will still be able to sell insurance along with flights, hotels, tours. Bit of a nuisance since my friendly travel agent used to do me good deals on ski holiday cover - much cheaper than the T.O. option and she'd knock off 5% from the T.O. holiday too if I insured with her. This year I'm going independent so I guess it'll have to be the internet for insurance cover. Looking forward to more recommendations on this thread.

I also (like Laundryman), have the Egg insurance (backed by AXA). (5 person annual multi trip with inclusive 17 days skiing) but it came free because I also took out house insurance with egg at the time. I think it would cost about £70 otherwise.

I guess what you buy depends on what you want it to do. There was quite a discussion on this somewhere else on the matter of whether your company would pay out if you skis were stolen from outside a restaurant. Seems that not many cover that one. On the Egg/AXA policy I enquired on the situation and found that they would need to be locked up/together if left unattended.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I can recommend Ace Travel Insurance for when you do have to make a claim !!

I booked them as they were the cheapest for me .. but when I broke my leg, they were absolutely brilliant. Arranging for ambulance to pick me up, scheduled flight home with 3 seats for raised leg, wheelchair in both airports, and paid up my Medical Expenses straight away.

All totally hassle free and handled by really pleasant customer service agents who totally reassured me.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

personally use worldwide travel insurance.........but never had to claim.

An interesting one i'm watching at the moment is a policy being drawn up by SCUK (snowboard club UK) www.snowboardclub.co.uk They are getting something together that is very very comprehensive, includes park, off-piste, dry slope, grass skiing, mountain boarding etc. Also written in plain english.

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snowskisnow, "Local Authorities" never "deem it safe". At the very best it is "low risk". This sounds like a potentially blanket get-out.

There are some very stringent terms regarding ski equipment in the SCGB insurance e.g. original receipt etc. My Salomon X-Screams are practically worthless under these. And unless you lock your skis at lunch they are uninsured.

You know it makes sense.

Thank you all for your contributions. My wife is now very impressed with all my new found knowledgable friends. I'll search all the options suggested.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

One further thought re 'safe conditions'.There you are,scudding around in knee deep and luvin it snowHead

You've checked with lifties/notice boards etc and all seems fine(no nasty chequered flags etc)You take a tumble,doh Embarassed

You bend,split,crack something that results in a claim.Whats the chance of the resort management/ESF or whatever,verifying that conditions were say 'reasonable' and that off piste presented 'little or no significant risk'?Purely for insurance purposes you understand Laughing

A snowHead

snowskisnow, I'm reminded of the Python sketch in a dodgy broker's office, with a hapless claimant (business was still done face-to-face in those days!). It went something like:

I'm sorry sir, but Clause 27 f (iii) quite clearly states that no claims will be met under any circumstances. Now, if you'd hadn't been such a skinflint, and paid the extra premium for our fully comprehensive policy...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I was on an annual policy with Journeywise last year. Came very close to having to cancel a holiday. When I checked the situation with them they told me ski passes weren't included in what I could claim back. I think this is wrong as a ski pass is pretty well integral to a skiing holiday.
I'm now trying a Marbles annual policy (who assure me would pay out for that sort of loss). Fingers crossed that I never need it.

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I'm also looking for the perfect annual policy. Some of my findings so far..

Egg - got an e-mail from them the other day offering an annual Europe family policy for just £20 Very Happy

. The problem is the (lack of) off piste cover "covered for off-piste skiing provided that this is with a guide and is not undertaken against local authority warning or advice." Also only covers 17 days skiing - just short of the 3 weeks I'll be doing this winter.

Insureandgo - seem to be quite reasonable priced but again have off piste restrictions. Cover is provided except in "areas designated as unsafe by resort management". I e-mailed asking for a definition of this and the reply was "This is defined as: areas that resort management declare are not safe for off piste wintersport activities". Their silver policy covers 17 days wintersports and the gold policy 24.

Argos - wintersports is defined as "Skiing, land-skiing, mono-skiing, cross-country skiing, heli -skiing, off-piste skiing, snow boarding, ski boarding, snow mobile, sledging, luging , tobogganing or ice skating." There appears to be no other restrictions for off-piste Very Happy

. Only 17 days are covered.

Direct-travel. As already mentioned has a condition requiring a statement that the off piste area you ski in is safe. This policy has an interesting slant on the number of days of wintersports cover, unlimited as long as no single trip exceeds 17 days.

Still looking Sad

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I've used snowcard.co.uk before and am quiet impressed by what they cover, their full T&C are on their website

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Guys, I'm worried that some of you might be pushing water uphill in your search for REASONABLY priced off-piste cover of the kind you seem to be after.

I'm not necessarily pro-insurer, but the limitations of the beast need to be kept in mind:

The risk that insurers associate (rightly or wrongly) with off-piste ranks somewhere just below base jumping. i.e. the risk of injury is so great as to be uncontrollable. Insurers therefore compromise by offering to insure you if you limit your off-piste to "safe" areas. Insurers rely resort management opinion as to what constitutes "safe" areas - some of you are unconvinced that this is realiable opinion, but it's the only realistic method available to insurers.

You CAN obtain cover for the kind of off piste and the length of time that I think you're hoping for, but bespoke policies are by their very nature inherently more expensive than off-the-peg.

Insure&go, direct travel, et al offer quite literally the best prices for the widest cover available in the "reasonable" price bracket. People on this post have done a good job of summarising the usual suspects, and I wouldn't want you to hold onto too much hope of finding a better mousetrap.

But do let us know if you do!!!!! Toofy Grin

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

see: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=2913&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=insurance&start=40
for a lot more on insurance.

In there is a comment where I read the Ts&Cs for a few policies after I was burnt.

Summary: I will be using Snowcard who cover:
* £10m medical, £2m personal liability
* off piste is covered (so if you get bumped off the piste there are no worries - and since we're going for 2 weeks I may even get good enough to do a proper off-piste!)
* specifically cover gear (inc hired) left outside restaraunts on the slopes (no-one else mentions this - and frankly if it's going to get nicked, that's where it'll go from!)
* specifically cover travel delays due to crashes (though they require a police report - good! that stops fraudsters taking advantage)

One comment I read is that if you are 'on-piste' and make a mistake, eg sit on your tails and slide off the side of the piste and down an 'off-piste' hill, are you on-piste or off-piste? What if you're just playing in a snowtube by the side of a piste?

When I emailed an enquiry about cover they phoned back and explained things to me. They also offer varying cover periods etc etc.

My experience has been that if you buy on 'lowest price' then don't be surprised when your claim is refused Smile

I also realised after talking to friends that skiing can hurt - a lot.

HTH

After all it is free

lbt, I agree that you may have problems getting your claim paid up, but it is unrelated to the price.

I paid one-third of the price for insurance of a guy I met skiing in March who did in his cruciate ligament. He had a nightmare time trying to fly back, and is still trying to get his medical expenses claim paid up.

My trip back was booked for me within 2 hours of calling the insurance co. His insurance company had all week, but he was given just 5hours notice... he was phoned at 11pm at night and told to be ready to go at 4 in the morning !!

I was back at home while he was still stuck at the airport in Austria, even though he had left resort 1.5 hours before me. His insurance company had booked, but not paid for his flight back (or an ambulance to airport for him). It took him almost 24 hours to get back from Austria, with various connections (rather than a direct flight), and no assistance booked at the airport for him.

I do think if you can use an insurance co that you know other people have had a good experience with, and check the small print to ensure it covers what you need, than that's a better way to gauge it then cost.

Sonya, so who was he with wink

Actually don't answer as it could be legally a little awkward for Admin, it would I think be hearsay (if that's the right term and spelling)

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Sonya, fair comment. Premium price doesn't mean premium insurance Smile

I think that some people do just buy the cheapest they can (and, TBH, I've been guilty of it too - but luckily just lost a couple of hundred pounds) - and I would guess that cheapest is far less likely to be the most appropriate!

Like I said, I read the fine print to come to my conclusion - but like someone else said "So who's had good - or bad - experiences with Snowcard?"

It's definitely why experiences count - so who were you insured with?

And has anyone else had any dealings with Snowcard?

D G Orf, I'm pretty sure that it's not illegal to tell stories about your experiences (yet) - after all this isn't the USA Wink

Libel is (AFAIK) is the closest in the UK - and this isn't libellous - which has to intend malice whereas Sonya is presumably being honest and relating a bad consumer experience!!

So Sonya, if you know then I'd spill ... and, to start, I think AIS Insurance are cr@p.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

lbt, If Sonya had first hand experience with the insurer that would be fine, but she's reporting somone elses problems rather than her own

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I'm with Direct Travel.....mostly because they offer unaccompanied off piste cover and more than the usual 17days in an annual policy. (laundryman, you might want to look at your cover....17days does not equal 3 weeks skiing, your policy will be void before your last week is up!).

Reading the comments above I'm now worried that our off piste cover is a bit dodgy....anyone any other thoughts on this requirement for it to be "safe"...surely off piste never is?

I always find that annoying that insurance companies invariably seem to offer inappropriate lengths for policies.
Surely the most popular length for winter sports should be some multiple of six?

brian

homphomp, I'm in the same direct travelling boat as yourself. I've e-mailed them asking for clarification, I'll let you know if I get a response.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

lbt and D G Orf, problem solved .. I don't remember the name of the guys insurance co ... so won't be spilling the beans !!

I had booked mine with Ace Travel Insurance, purely because it was cheap !! Having never had to claim before, I wasn't really expecting to need to use it! In hindsight I was very lucky Smile

A snowHead

homphomp, I'm also interested in what response brian gets. However I anticipate a repeat of the "safe means safe" routine.... rolling eyes

For what it's worth, it's not that your off-piste cover is dodgy - it's just the nature of the beast that insurers have necessarily to rely on resort management for expert opinion as to when an area of off-piste is "safe": no insurer can afford to place a man in every resort to report back every day of the year. If only they could! But then premiums would soar....and we'd be complaining about the price....

Paul Roberts, from what I can make out, snowheads tend NOT to take typical length wintersport holidays favoured by the "popular" masses. So as far as snow-sport holiday insurance customers go, we (for the most part) are not like normal people... in the nicest way possible, of course!!!! Smile

A snowHead

A few people have made comments about 17 days of cover etc, but how does the insurance company know how many days holiday you've had if it's an annual policy?.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I asked Journeywise this question and they answered "Trust". Hmm...

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Manda, I take your point about Snowheads but that's still a tiny minority. I'll be amazed if 6 days isn't by far the most popular skiing duration. (Of course amongst Snowheads it would be 365 days)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I used to use Snowcard, until I found out that their definition of "a day's skiing" starts as you close your front door in UK and drive to the ferry/airport and finishes as you arrive back at your home. So by definition, if I fly to Malaga for 2 weeks and spend a day at Sierra Nevada......... Also because I wanted to hire a kayak from the beach pedalo man on my summer hols, they raised my annual policy price to £140 (for a couple) up by about £20! Puzzled

This all came 1st hand by phone from the man in charge. Now with Insure & Go, they have told me that "a day's skiing" is one "spent on skis" - sounds very sensible.

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Manda, The problem is that I have unguided off piste cover to just for those days when I fall off the drag lift then have to stuggle through the trees to get back on the piste....or just plain get lost! I would never do proper off piste skiing without an experienced guide or instructor, I'm simply not good enough. In this vein I certainly don't check with the local resort manager before planning to fall off a lift or get lost!! My worry is that, like all insurers, this is a get out clause so they don't have to pay out!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I got a phone call from InsureandGo this afternoon following up the enquiry I made yesterday - offering to answer any questions I still had and offer a discount if I bought today.

On the off-piste question I was told that to satisfy the underwritters it would be necessary to get written confirmation at the start of each day that the off-piste area I would ski in is safe.

Nedless to say I declined their offer.

After all it is free

Insurance is a product that people buy on price, because it's a 'distress purchase' ie you have to have it, so you look for the cheapest. Well companies are no different, when we were casting around for insurance for ourselves and our staff we compared all the features, worked out what we needed as a base and went from there. We settled on ski-insurance.co.uk as we found they were one of the very few who would give cover to seasonaires and their possessions, off-piste skiing as standard etc. They also gave us a link from our site directly to them, all the terms and conditions are freely available, there's no refering to underwriters and they give us a small commission on any businees that passes through our site which helps to defray some of our costs. Are they good, well we neverhad to claim yet, nor have any of our guests but if you can judge an insurer by the efficiency of their administration and i believe you can, then we shouldn't have any problems.

AB Ski, I would suggest that no european resort is ever likely to give a written confirmation that off piste is safe as it would open them up to legal action if even a minor avalanche occured Shocked

brian

Reply from Direct Travel:

"What this means is that we would not expect you to ski off-piste where the
Local Authorities have issued a warning suggesting that an avalanche is
expected between grades 4/5. If this does occur then they will close the
run, giving skiers plenty of warning by placing a notice usually at the
bottom of the ski lift and the actual area is sometimes cordoned off."

Which, on the face of it, seems pretty reasonable. I'm keeping the e-mail anyway !

Help!!

Insurance

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