 Poster: A snowHead
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...makes you stronger! ? Not to be taken literally (losing a limb or 2 may not kill you...) but does pushing your limits as a skier make you a better skier?
I ask because last week in Tignes with the family we (self, wife, 2 daughters age 13 and 10) did various runs some of which challenged the 10 year old and her dad. Sache had a couple of interesting bits, mega bumps on Foret. The really interesting one though was piste A the womens downhill on Friday. We didn't expect them to have iced it up so early. That 1st pitch, steep and icy took all my diplomatic skills to get No 2 daughter down, she possessed the skill but was q nervous she got down it fine and is v proud of herself. We are back there at half term and it will be interesting to see how she gets on.
Before any one asks , yes she does normally go to ski school, she will be going to ski school at half term as will her elder sister. We like to have a family holiday where we ski together for the week though as our other holiday is with a group of friends and we don't get to ski with the children as much as we would like.
We definitely pushed her limits the question is was that a good thing? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It can be a very fine line between skiing at your physical and mental limits and going beyond them. Skiing near the limit is a good way of making change, but going beyond can result in a catastophic loss of confidence, which can take a very long time to re-establish
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think it's a good idea to occasional go outside your comfort zone, but not by such a large margin that it causes catastrophic failure of confidence.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar, Spyderman, Amen to both of you!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kids are usually quite good at bouncing back from scary things. Boys especially tend to thrive on them.
As long as they're not going to hurt themselves (i.e they have the skills but lack confidence) then its all good
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm 14 and I can easily relate. Kids my age just like to say they skied something. They don't care how well they did it, but just like to say "O I did that!" But just don't freak anybody out too much (depends on how much they like skiing-- I want quit for nuttin') because they just might never want to be on skis again.
But exactly what is the point of pushing a kids limits too much? You should just focus on technique so the kid can actually ski the harder runs instead of wasting their time sitting on their butt down it.
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does pushing your limits as a skier make you a better skier?
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it might do, but only (in my experience) under expert guidance - so that you learn from it. I've occasionally found myself on something much harder than I'd have chosen. Having reached the bottom without mishap I just feel lucky (and foolish for having been ignorant) rather than an improved skier or better person. Pushing your own limits is OK. Having other people (especially family members) push them for you can be a recipe for disaster.
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I think that pushing your limits, so long as you don't take it to the point where you are not enjoying it or feel forced into by someone else is almost always good for you. You learn how to tackle more difficult slopes, you improve your posture as when it gets harder if your posture is poor then you fall and it improves your confidence. For me, half the fun of skiing is pushing it to a point where i have to focus properly.
And about the womens downhill i think they just like to keep it icy as i was there las year when there was no race on and every other piste was in near perfect condition but it was icy as hell.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I tend not to push myself as much as I should due to several trips to foreign A&E depts with various injuries (dislocations mainly!). I wish I had the mental attitude of "Pah, if I fall over, I'll get up again and keep going", but unfortunately my mentallity now is more "poo-poo! If I fall over there, that will really hurt, and potentially put me back in hospital". This year Im detemined to push myself a bit more than I would normally - whether I actually will or not remains to be seen!
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PsychoBabble, A great job IMV. I took my daughter skiing for the first time last easter (she 14 at the time). Fortunatetly we didn't fall out once but I had to bite my lip a lot. I admire your skills of persuasion and support for your kids.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We went up on the Grand Motte cablecar a couple of days 1 st thing in the morning and I got chatting to a bloke who, it turned out was with an army group 3rd day of their trip, never skied before and they were about to do top to bottom. Iwas impressed at that degree of limit pushing!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The original quote "What does not destroy me, makes me stronger" is from the philosopher Nietzsche's Twilight of the Idols. Not a lot of people know that.
 <Michael Cain emoticon.
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You know it makes sense.
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IMO the main benefit of pushing your limits is...the increase in confidence it gives you.
Put yourself outside your comfort zone...then you eventually become comfortable there...hence, the comfort zone has extended.
Doesnt often improve skill but like I said...confidence.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Skola, fine balance though. Pushing your own limits is OK. But having someone else push you outside your limits (someone without the judgement which a ski instructor would have, as to how far outside your comfort zone to push you) can terminally damage your confidence. I know two young women whose fathers pushed them past the point of no return. One injured herself, and has never been able to put skis on her feet since. She's by no means a wimp - she now boards, and is just getting back into it after a fall which broke a bone in her back and left her in plaster for 3 months. But her father, pushing her down an icy red slope when she was tired at the end of the day, at 14, finished her skiing career for ever. It was 7 years before she went back on the snow, on a board. She tried skis for ten minutes one afternoon and despite having had some big crashes on her board, and coming back for more, she was just a quivering, pathetic, shivering wreck on those skis.
I've seen similar things with keen sailors pushing partners or friends into conditions which they just can't cope with, and putting them off for life.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think you've hit the nail on the head there Pam. Any descent ski instructor will know your capabilities and weaknesses after a day or so and will know exactly how far to push you. I well remember, years ago, dropping down Plein Sud into Val Thorens. Near the bottom, where everything shoots left, there is a rocky outcrop that, that year, was well covered. Our instructor, Mitch, gave us the option to follow him. I'm up for anything but baulked a bit at the steep drop he'd found. I glanced nervously at him and he subtley nodded back - the kind of nod that says yes you can. So I went for it. I hit some rocks and made a complete hash of it but I stayed upright. He then just said that I'd enjoy off piste skiing - which was the perfect thing to say. I always had the option to back off.
I also remember struggling down some black somewhere in horrible condition. Ahead of us was a father screaming at his son to "ski parallel". His son, of about 14 years, had quite sensibly reverted to defensive, get down safely mode. How we felt for this poor lad.
We can all make bad calls. But there's far more motivation for coping with your own mistake than anybody else's. Bursts of adrenaline can be fun but being frozen with fear definitely isn't. IMHO, skiing should be fun.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think pushing a kids limits is fine but it all depends on how you do it. I saw a guy shouting at his (roughly) 11 or 12 year old son on a red run in LDA last year. The kid was clearly bricking it at the steepest part of this red and had parked up by the side of the piste looking around him nervously, while his moronic Dad was some way below, angrily shouting up at him to get on with it. I skied over to the kid, asked him if he was ok and tried to calm him down. After that I asked him if he knew how to do snow plough turns to which he said yes so I said, if I turn very slowly in front of you, do you want to follow me. He did that, made it past the steepest part of the slope and gingerly made his way over to his Dad.
I debated telling the Dad what I thought of him but decided against it, as I didn't want the kid to feel even worse, so he got away with me staring him out as I skied past.
The point I'm trying to make is that the kid had the skills to get down the run and had he approached the situation better the bloke could've made it a positive experience for his kid rather than making him scared of skiing and of his own Dad. I don't have kids yet but even I could see that idiotic parenting created that situation.
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That 1st pitch, steep and icy took all my diplomatic skills to get No 2 daughter down
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That's the key, just stay calm and be nice to them and they'll learn so much better and ultimately respect you for it so much more.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
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does pushing your limits as a skier make you a better skier?
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it might do, but only (in my experience) under expert guidance - so that you learn from it. I've occasionally found myself on something much harder than I'd have chosen. Having reached the bottom without mishap I just feel lucky (and foolish for having been ignorant) rather than an improved skier or better person. Pushing your own limits is OK. Having other people (especially family members) push them for you can be a recipe for disaster. |
It's a fine line, isn't it. I remember on my fourth ever day skiing being taken down a slope during the afternoon that was ghastly - quite low down, so a mixture of marble-like art. snow and porridge. I was (1) out of my depth; (2) scared; (3) furious - and the following morning was somewhat lacking in confidence. So yes, I just felt relieved to get out alive. But...
The afternoon after THAT, however, I tackled the self-same slope (having been told not to...) and loved it; a major advance for me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Ahead of us was a father screaming at his son to "ski parallel". His son, of about 14 years, had quite sensibly reverted to defensive, get down safely mode. How we felt for this poor lad.
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it's often parents who can't ski for toffee themselves who you see in this kind of situation. Often, sad to say, British ones.
One stupid woman I heard moaning at a child, quite a small one, who had fallen on quite a lumpy blue piste, badly chopped up at the end of the day. She herself was skiing it like a pregnant giraffe, and when the child fell her "encouragement" consisted of shouting at him "I TOLD you not to fall again". Partly, obviously, because she lacked the skill herself to control her own line well enough to stop right by him and pick him up.
Hers was the only English voice I'd heard on the (very uncrowded) slopes all day, and the only parent/child combo who weren't having a lovely time. I wanted to kick her. Or, even better, get the silly cow on a snowboard and tell her not to fall over.
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FAQ
I am wary of these quotes after attending a rugby match where a fan was bemoaning a bit of bad luck, another came out with the classic "you make your own luck" some wag with a very dark sense of humour responded "tell that to the people of Hiroshima!"
