 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey guys,
I'm new here at Snowheads so I thought I'd get stuck in making this thread.
I've started to carve more often now as it's a technique (which I've heard) is meant to make skiing so much easier and get to those speeds you never dared to attempt when just "skidding". My carving is catching on pretty well now and I would like some tips on how to carve at speed, more fluently and just some overall carving tips. I'm not a beginner at carving so I'd just like some tips to improve. I'm going to France in a week so your tips would be helpful!
Thanks,
-Ben.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ben3210, welcome to snowHeads! I'd suggest you use the forum search facility to search the Bend ze Knees forum for "carving" - it will provide much entertainment for an evening or two, and probably a bit of help too! Hope you have a great time in France.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for the links Sideshow_Bob. Will come in handy 
I'll do what you said and use the search function mfj197, thanks.
P.S Will have a smashing time in France (Hopefully not literally).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ben3210, get Rick's DVDs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hey comprex, could you please link me to them as I'm not sure what you mean by Rick's DVDs.
Thanks,
-Ben.
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Thanks 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ben3210, although a gross amateur compared to most who post here I would suggest that you try some skis with a short radius (around 11-12m) and bindings with riser plates (these things usually come together) as this will help you get greater edge angles and so railroad your edges more - worked for me anyway...
Carving is so addictive, and such a good laugh - a word of warning though, if you get good you will be able to turn so sharply, and at such high speed, that you may surprise other skiers around you on the piste. 
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red 27, thanks for the info. We've already booked ski hire so I'm not sure if they'll let me change to different shorter skis. Loving the idea of surprising other skiers though, means everyone will move away and I'll have the piste to myself 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ben3210, be sure to be wearing an enormous grin as you turn uphill at them at 20-30mph.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, haha, I'm sure I will
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Sideshow_Bob, I hadn't seen that Utube one before - it looks magic doesn't it? Just hands down and touch the knees and round the skis should come - it can't be that easy - can it? He's just making it look easy isn't he?
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum, the touching of the knees is irrelevant. All he is doing is putting his skis on an edge and standing on them. The easiest way to mess up a carved turn is to do too much.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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hi Ben.....sorry for my english......I'm italian.....
just one things about carve at hight speed....pay attention with small ski.....are very good for short turns.....but for speed.....i suggest you a geant ski.....because with spped the slalom one is too instable........
where are you gooing in France???
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Poster: A snowHead
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lungostyle, welcome to snowHeads
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, it is that easy if you can balance ok, have the confidence to stand on the ski and not skid the heels out and you have skis with quite a short turn radius, especially on the flat. I think the guy in the vid is on some Nordica SL skis. There's a massive difference in feel between a slalom ski with an 11m turn radius and all-round, mid-fat or GS skis. I find my slalom skis want to turn almost by themselves all the time, whereas my GS skis need setting up properly.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 8-01-09 22:52; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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lungostyle, Thanks for the tips, I'm going to Les 7 Laux which is a resort in the Isere region (Not so far from Val d'Isere I presume).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ben3210,
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Not so far from Val d'Isere I presume
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Not really, it's near Grenoble, closest larger resorts are Alp D'Huez and Les Deux Alpes.
I think the Isere region is named after the Isere river which certainly runs through Grenoble. Not sure if it goes anywhere near VDI. Somehow doubt it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Colin B, I stand corrected 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ben3210, And so do I. Apparently the source of the Isere River is near Val D'Isere. However Les Sept Laux is still nowhere near Val D'Isere.
Enough of geography back to carving...
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My skis say radius 13.7 from what I read that is not a huge radius is it - they should come round reasonably OK I guess? There are a lot of good videos that folks have found here they are useful to bear in mind alongside the lessons that you get on the snow. rob@rar, I'm sure the knee touching is irrelevant as you say - what it did appear to do was to put the upper body at a different angle? - I may experiment to see what happens - I guess it just develops the feeling as to where you need to be and once you learn it perhaps you do it instinctively. What I need to do is start controlling the tails to control the skid as said above. However, the difference this year is I know what is wrong and can start to correct things. I can't wait to come back from holiday and report on progress - I'm going to get loads of stuff sorted this year 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, yes, 13.7m radius ski will bring you around pretty sharply. I find it much better to think about what my skis are doing rather than any other part of my body, especially my upper body. In essence all you want to do is put your skis on edge and not rotate them or put much additional pressure on them. Th shape of the ski will make sure you follow a curve. What you do with the rest of your body depends on what speed you're going at, how tight your turn is, how long you 'hold' each turn for, snow conditions, etc. With all those variables you won't be surprised to learn that that there is no "one thing" to do with the rest of your body, or that it remains in the same position throughout the turn. The only constants are that your skis will be on their edges and you won't be rotating them or adding any extra pressure to make them turn.
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rob@rar,
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adding any extra pressure
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I thought that's what you have to do to avoid the crime (I think it's a crime, isn't it?) of 'park and ride'?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, stand in front of a mirror. Reach down to touch the outside of your knee while keeping your legs straight and not bending your knees. See which way your hips go and how your legs angle relative to the floor?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
rob@rar,
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adding any extra pressure
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I thought that's what you have to do to avoid the crime (I think it's a crime, isn't it?) of 'park and ride'? |
No, more edge angle is what you want. The problem is likely to be too much pressure (skis will judder as they constantly grip, then break the grip, then grip the snow) so you have to absorb that by flexing your stance.
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Hurtle, no, park and ride is a little different, it means going to -one- edge angle and -one- body position no matter the other variables rob@rar mentions.
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, comprex, I see (I think). I must vary my edge angle - and if necessary my body position - according to circumstance, but not apply pressure to do so? I can't quite visualise that, if the truth be told.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| I must vary my edge angle - and if necessary my body position - according to circumstance, but not apply pressure to do so? I can't quite visualise that, if the truth be told. |
If you are carving your turns you're going to be going very fast. That is going to generate huge G forces, so you have all the pressure at the ski/snow interface that you need for the skis to grip the snow. In fact, you're going to have so much pressure that there is a danger that you'll overpower that level of grip, and the ski will break free and skid sideways slightly before it grips again. The G forces will build up as you progress through the turn, so it can be necessary to absorb some of that force by flexing your legs at the end of the turn a bit like a shock absorber.
Incidentally, we teach people to flex their legs at the end of the snowplough turn for exactly the same reason - to manage that pressure.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| rob@rar, comprex, I see (I think). I must vary my edge angle - and if necessary my body position - according to circumstance, |
Yep.
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| but not apply pressure to do so? I can't quite visualise that, if the truth be told. |
Imagine standing on a platform that tilts up from the side then gets flat again. One leg gets shorter, one leg gets longer. You're still just plain standing throughout, no need to cock a hip or do any particular pushing up down or sideways.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, comprex, good combo of explanations, thanks. I'll try it - very shortly - though I can't see myself having much success on the ice that I am apparently likely to find in the 3V next week. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| rob@rar, comprex, good combo of explanations, thanks. I'll try it - very shortly - though I can't see myself having much success on the ice that I am apparently likely to find in the 3V next week. |
It's tough on ice. Needs a combination of courage and sensitivity, neither of which I have an abundance of. Don't rush the start of the turn as you won't give the ski edge a chance to bite into the snow. If it starts to slide (because you've banged it onto the edge really suddenly) it's very difficult to make it bite. You want a smooth, progressive action, which can be a bit scary when you're "waiting" for the edge to cut into the snow!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hurtle, To start try just doing it in a traverse... angle your skis just a bit downhill (from across) and start to slide ... as you do ROLL onto your uphill edges... the skis will turn uphill and you will(eventually) stop..... then gradually increase the amount of downhill direction...
Eventually start by pointing downhill and turning uphill to a stop by simply tipping your feet to that uphill side
Do this in both directions...
You are now doing HALF a turn...
See DVDs for the rest but you get the idea - it is like eating an elephant - one bite at a time...
To tell if you are doing it "right" .... take a look at your tracks... you should leave 2 lines just the width of your ski edge in the snow.... anything else means you are not carving (eg a wider line, lots of disconnected bits etc)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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little tiger, yes, up to that point on, say, a corduroy piste, I have no particular problem. (I have been known to approximate at least part of a carved turn from time to time!) It's the notion of a smooth, 'unpressurized' change of edge angle, on more variable terrain, that is more problematic. Thanks anyway, you describe the movement very well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hurtle, Try re-reading the ILE thread (post) of Fastman's this transition is a great way to change edges in arc to arc turns - it will let you feel a connection to the snow rather than so much "float" or disconnect.... I find this feels far 'safer' than OLR (where I feel I am diving down the hill much more)... You are always starting with the little toe being pressured just a touch and the change of edges on that foot then happens for you... you just have to make sure the other foot keeps up which is pretty easy if you are used to skiing parallel as it is pretty natural.... and you have control of your rate of "topple" via the speed you extend and relax those legs... and you are extending the new outside foot in order to maintain snow contact...
I can use an ILE transition in powder, on groomers, on hardpack, cut up fresh snow, and I even used it skiing on those death cookies in the video.... So it is useful transition to have in your bag of tricks anyway...
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there is a danger that you'll overpower that level of grip, and the ski will break free and skid sideways slightly before it grips again.
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in Warren Smith's first video, in the carving section, he emphasizes the need to feel the ski pressing DOWN into the snow, not pushing OUT. Which maybe amounts to the same as said above, but I find it a useful thing to think about.
Why does everyone keep going on about ice in the 3 Valleys? Is it icy down there? As I said in another thread, there's little or no ice around here, in fact I've seen none, though there are some hardpacked areas. It's been too cold for much ice problem.
I am skiing with a friend who arrived with the most ginormous skis I've ever seen - they were miles above her head. She spent yesterday on my 156 Wave Magics and once I persuaded her to do far less and showed her easiski's "ankle rolling" exercise down a gentle track, she was away. Couldn't believe how little she needed to do.
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Ben3210, imho most important is a stacked position thruout. Progressive ankle up edge change without turning. Extend, incline, long leg-short leg. Angulate to manage forces and increase inside ski weighting only towards the bottom half of the turn. Return to fore-aft neutral, slight counter to redirect mass along flow line. Repeat.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hurtle, FWIW I think the doctrine of no pressure, only edge is just semantics. Legs are extending and braced, body is stacked and skis are bending. If they were edged the same amount but not pressed on they wouldn't bend as much. My take is that it's more helpful to consider pressure in a turn as being active and created at the top of a turn and but mainly just managed at the bottom. At speed, less effort is required to create pressure at the top of the turn, because if the ski is edged momentum helps the ski decamber, such that it does almost become about pressure management rather than creation. However one of the reasons for a stacked position is that it puts the body in the strongest position to push on the skis at the top of the turn to produce the comma shaped turns (most of the turning is completed well inside the top half of the turn cycle) that slalom racers often aim for, and part of the pressure 'management' is still ensuring that there is sufficient pressure on the skis.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| Hurtle, FWIW I think the doctrine of no pressure, only edge is just semantics. |
From a teaching point of view, especially as an introduction to carving arc-arc turns I think "no extra pressure" certainly worked for me. If you want a skier who is relatively new to pure carved turns to modify their turn shape surely you would ask them to increase or decrease edge angle? Managing ski pressure at the top of the turn (other than simply transferring weight from one set of edges to the other) is a high order skill if you are going to keep the skis carving. Not something that I could do with any level of success.
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