 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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But I didn't see our name there! Was all that hard work for nothing? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cathy Coins, maybe next year is a more realisitc proposition? Natives has been around for some time and the Ski Club has been around since the dinosaurs were skiing, so I think a relative newbie like SnowHeads wasn't likely to attract that many votes in its first year.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As you say rob, "all the winners seem to be as you would expect".
At least it was until I got to Best Winter Resort Bar
1. Pub Le Ski Lodge, La Tania, France (23%) 
2. Dicks, Val D'Isere, France (21%)
3. The Office, Chamonix, France (12%)
Is that because it is the only pub in La Tania?
Just shows the whole competition is a real farce.
The real Best Winter Resort Bar is of course Le Saloon in Belle Plagne.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This is all very peculiar. Snow Awards themselves have not posted the results on their own site, despite saying:
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"The results will be announced on October 14th 2004 and they will be displayed on this site."
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Why would the results be released to natives for publication, before they're released from 'the horse's mouth'?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes David, odd as you say.
I was also interested to see the logos at the bottom of the page.
The snowlife logo looked awfully like our snowheads one without the snow.
In the Sticky thread there have been many votes for the yellow-on-blue version.
I wonder if we should rethink this.....
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 14-10-04 21:27; edited 1 time in total
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Disagree with the bar results, best bar in the Alps IMHO is Willy's bar in La Rosiere, just ask Mark Hunter and wait until Flying Squrriel has finished refurbishing the Funky Ecruriel! Some new nominations for next year and we've got to start the Snowhead's campaign early.
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The results are up on the snowawards site, look at 2004 Winners in the menu at the top under the logo !
It is interesting to note that only 2 of the by popular demand companies made it to a top 3 place Ski World (3rd in both Best Winter Chalet Operator and Best Overall Winter Operator) and most impressively Pub Le Ski Lodge, La Tania, France with 23% of the Votes in the Best Winter Resort Bar catagory, does anyone else find it odd that 23% of the voters had been to the same bar in La tania and could still remember it ? Mind you Dicks in val despair came secon with 21% third was The Office, Chamonix with just 12%, now I wouldn't want to suggest anything but do any of those bars have internet terminals in ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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D G Orf, you're right (and maybe it was there earlier and I didn't spot it) but it's mighty peculiar that nothing appears in their news section, and the results are presented in less detail than by natives.
The number of votes cast is not stated. Concerns of multiple voting have been expressed in our previous threads about Snow Awards.
In the interests of all concerned it's important that the organisers run the thing transparently, with clear safeguards against multiple voting, and with proper scrutiny available for nominees/candidates.
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Call me an old cynic, but aren't all industry "awards" "ceremonies" nothing more than an excuse for self-congratulatory back-slapping 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've just realised that would involve a degree of contortion!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith, there is also a PDF file with all the percentages for the top 3 positions in all catagories, however there is no info as to numbers, not event the total number of people who voted.
It was also interesting to see who were on the panel of Judges who decided which were to be the 5 starting names in each catagory
They have links to:
Ellis Brigham
Salomon
Ski & Board
Ski Club of Great Britain
Good Ski Guide Magazine
Daily Mail Ski & Snowboard
Where to Ski & Snowboard
The Good Ski & Snowboard Guide
that they all acknowledge
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David@traxvax, Which one is Willy's Bar in La Ros? I didn't realise La Ros had a night life!
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You know it makes sense.
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At the risk of being shot down in flames....I think Natives is the best snowsports website and a worthy winner. The amount of information on the site far exceeds any other that I've seen. However, as snowHeads builds up different sections (such as news and snowBase then there's no reason why we can't be competing next year.
Shame they didn't have a "Best snowSports forum" category 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The '2005 Nominate Now' section of their web site just takes you to a page about discussing sponsorship or advertising. The more we look at Snow Awards the clankier the whole thing seems to be. Did anyone get a response to pointing out to them that multiple voting was probably rife ? As predicted, they have not declared the numbers of votes cast - only %ages. And this gem from the News section ...
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| Voting for 2005 resumes on October 14th also, we have new categories which include some fun categories - the site will have a few tweaks to make it look and perform better for you. |
a) I can't see where voting is possible now. b) the site looks just the same as ever, including trying to flog tickets for cancelled events. And from the Home page ...
since they can't even spell 'encouraged' I have not bothered to check these sites. Ambition they have - skill is lacking. Integrity has to remain suspect. 
<< Edit - not one of these 3 links is up and running - tells you something doesn't it. This whole thing is either a not very successful con or just sheer incompetence. Another grammatical howler ....
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| We will develop a mechanism that will incentivise the UK public to consider an Alpine experience rather than tradition beach holiday's. |
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Poster: A snowHead
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Do we really need to incentivise the UK public to go on ski holidays ?
Seriously it must be a bit difficult, we have TV shows where complete beginners are taught to ski (really badly) by a family of South Coast hoteliers, rather than proper ski instructors, where the TV coverage of successful racers such as Chemmy was virtualy non existant last year, and where when we do get coverage of ski events, they're on at 1.55am and have more film time showing the onlookers cool reflective goggles and faces than they do actually showing those people doing the competition.
Is it any wonder that the UK snowsports team gets so little support ! Then we get the Snow Awards site which just seems to be a way of paying the website builders wages and for a large number of commercial organisations to pat themselves on the back ! Grrrr 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think the sponsors should be very carefully reconsidering their position as regards Snow Awards. Put it this way - from what we now know about it, would any one of us give them a penny of backing? I'm not convinced it's even worth nominating snowHeads again - if the voting ever gets going, that is...
Great idea - appallingly poorly implemented and showing no signs of getting any better for next year. Sad really.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I contacted Snow Awards from their site as follows
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| Voting has not restarted for 2005 awards. There were possibilities of duplicate voting last time - has this been solved ? The web site has not been updated and (for example) is still offering tickets for a cancelled event. I wish you well but unless things are tightened up considerably, the integrity of your award system is compromised. Regards, Ian |
They've replied
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Thanks for your email, it is always great to get feedback good or bad. I would like to assure you that multiple voting never occurred as every vote was scanned by an operator, many people tried but they did not get through, our security software is as we needed it last year but like the whole site is being reviewed. The whole site is being updated as we speak and I am sure the new look will please most people - with everything we have had to work on recently we have slightly neglected the 2004 site, so accept our apologies. The Snow Awards is concept born by enthusiasts and financed by them so we really need everyone's support, as with everything in its first year we are learning quickly but we know that the Snow Awards are hear to stay.
Im disappointed to here that people are not on side as we are doing this for the public, we also raise tremendous amounts for performance athletes so im sure the comments are by jealous parties who do not fully understand our concept or integrity, I hope that you will continue to revisit - we are at resent still receiving nominations for 2005 and collating the data.
Thanks for understanding and patience.
Adam Sullivan
The Snow Awards 2004 |
I make no comment on this now - but I invite snowHeads to chip in ...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's not clever to criticise people who've raised legitimate questions as "not on side" or "jealous parties'. It's a bit defensive and immature, really.
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I would like to assure you that multiple voting never occurred as every vote was scanned by an operator, many people tried but they did not get through
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It's not clear what this means. If someone visits a dozen different computers at a dozen different internet cafes, adopting 144 different identities and email addresses in total, what type of scanning or operator prevents that person from voting 144 times?
If people feel that they can gain commercial advantage by winning awards then, sadly, they may abuse a voting process to make or organise multiple voting.
I would have thought that a large independent panel of judges, who can only vote on ski enterprises / categories in which they have no interest, would be a more reliable way to determine awards like this.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I wonder if it is not possible to computer-generate votes, apprently coming from different IP addresses. Not that anyone involved in the Snow Awards would, of course. But unless secure sites, passwords, and IDs are used (in which case casual voters wouldn't bother) I would have thought that any voting should ot be regrded as much more than a bit of fun.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith, Unless I'm missing something, and something in the system discounts votes without the voter knowing, I can categorically state that my wife, Hannah and myself all voted from the same IP address, using three different email addresses. Our separate registrations were accepted, and we each went through the voting process successfully.
As I have my own domain (with unlimited email addresses possible) I could have gone through the same procedure as many times as I wanted.
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I notice that a certain Mr Adam Sullivan joined snowheads yesterday so perhaps he'd like to reply in person to this thread ?
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And you could vote by fax - so if you switched off your fax machine's auto identity, you could merrily churn them out with as many 'names' as your imagination permits. Sorry Snow Awards - I remain unconvinced that duplicate voting was not possible.
When I contacted them, I also suggested to Snow Awards that they should have another look at this forum where some doubts were being raised. I recall someone from the organisation did pop in and post some time back and was welcomed. My mention of doubts probably prompted most of this bit of his reply .....
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| Im disappointed to here that people are not on side as we are doing this for the public, we also raise tremendous amounts for performance athletes so im sure the comments are by jealous parties who do not fully understand our concept or integrity |
We snowHeads certainly are not jealous - we want it to succeed but transparently and honestly. The claim to be fund raising for athletes is a new one on me - I don't recall seeing anything about that on my visits to their site - but I might be wrong. The award ceremony could have been a fund raiser - but that was cancelled. Unless there is other sponsorship money, how does it raise funds for the skiers and boarders?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would be very interested to know a little more about the ...
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we also raise tremendous amounts for performance athletes |
Over on SnowRacers, the question of underfunding of snow athletes is very much a topic of conversation, and we applaud the efforts of all those working to help move things in the right direction.
Do these "tremendous amounts" go directly to the elite athletes themselves? To the Home Nation organisations? to Snowsport GB? To those struggling in the lower half of the pyramid? Perhaps Adam Sullivan could be a little more specific?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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From memory there was something on their site about a charity ? Auction to raise money, but how it was distributed I cannot recall
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not so sure about the Natives being the best website. Take a look at its "Places" section. I presume this is to inform the skiing/boarding public of what resorts have to offer, they list 25 resorts worldwide.
To be quite honest, and not intentionally wishing to flatter Snowheads, this is the first website I have found that actually calls a spade a spade. Most websites have minimal information, if any at all on 95% of our planets ski resorts. I personally subscribe to Snow-forcast.com as its a very useful tool during the winter for me but I have had to write to them and provide correct details (including the location) of my home resort, Sun Peaks. I supplied the info about a month ago and it's still not been updated. Their info is 4 years out of date.
It is my humble opinion that a great deal of these website and organisations such as the Snow Awards are maintained by individuals who are lining there pockets and not producing anything of value. Its the old-boy network all scratching each others backs.
Its so dissappointing as I for one, and i get the same impression about you guys, are passionate about snowsports and are reletively well informed. They must think we were all born yesterday.
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FAQ
