 Poster: A snowHead
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... I recall that the finest man-made snow I ever skied was in the first snowdome ever built in the UK. In fact, the snow was as near perfect as you'd ever ski on a mountain.
The snow was made by a guy called Malcolm Clulow, back in 1989. He'd converted a unit on an industrial estate in Telford into (effectively) a huge freezer, based on a system of burying coolant pipes in the bed of the piste itself. So any heat was extracted from the snow, under the snow (along with heat in the air above the snow). In other words the system reversed natural conditions, where heat is sucked from the snow by the freezing of the atmosphere.
The snow was, frankly, breathtaking, because I'd skied loads of artificial snow on mountains by then (1989) and it had always been disappointing.
I haven't spoken to Malcolm Clulow for a while, but I believe he's still actively involved in the technology. His original company was called Snowmec, which became Acer Snowmec. Perhaps his most impressive project was Ski Dubai, the snowdome that's linked to a shopping mall in the Emirates city and has a lot of novel design features. I know he also engineered the snow at Milton Keynes, which the operators have sometimes been criticised for. Is the snow any good there these days?
It would be interesting to read of skiers' experiences of any snow that Snowmec (or competing companies) have made recently. The Telford slope had low usage, because it was essentially a laboratory and testing ground (only about 30m long). Making snow for high traffic and consequently high erosion presumably means that you have to harden it up and therefore make it less beautiful.
The snow at the first major snowdome in the UK - Tamworth - was made by a different company, which was involved in the very first public snowdome of all (in Adelaide, Australia). This used a method of making ice and pulverising it (I think).
Anyone know anything technical about snow in snowdomes, and the state of the art?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The snow at Castleford is pretty good - no icy patches at the last sH ski test there. It seemed a little bizarre, somehow, to see a proper piste basher in the shed next to the slope.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The snow at Chill factore is nice compared to castleford. Complete different feel to it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sorry to hijack the thread. But I was hoping to go to either Milton Keynes or Tamworth as I have never tried skiing on artificial snow before. Which one is better?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I use Milton Keynes 2 or 3 times each year but in the past I have been to Tamworth a few times.
Tamworth has the worst snow (usually).
The problem with the others when they have been there for a while is that they are very reluctant to close the slope and hack out the old ice that has formed by years of compaction. It was in the plan but when the time comes they don't do it. This has resulted in periods when the snow quality goes down. Sometimes the glycol pipes get broken because of this slope ageing, and that is even worse as the glycol spreads far and wide and mixes with the snow and it becomes sticky. Then they have to hack up part of the slope.
If you go after new snow making the snow is still quite good, but after heavy use you can get icy patches. Unfortunately some peole try it when it is less good and think that is what it is always like.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 5-12-08 12:27; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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o11y, Don't know about Tamowrth - MK had the odd icy patch when I went there.
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I remember, but not too well, a program on Radio 4 (as is the want of gentlemen of my age) about one of UK snow domes. Perhaps there is a podcast available. Life is too short, unless one is to make a career out of it ,to wade past all though the enviromental concern about atificial snow making on the mountains and at snow domes to find reference to this program.
I recall the expert said they had the possibility to make 'perfect' snow as unlike outdoors the conditions could be controlled for perfect temperature as can the atomised water droplet size controlled. The snow is not subject to freeze thaw deterioration but as you say subject to wear. The eskimos apparently do not have many words for snow but there are many variations of snow with different crystal formations, size and mixture. What is perfect, I kind of like large snow flakes that fall like feathers and squeak when you compress it. The Canadian rave about champagne powder but I was not lucky enough to find acres of virgin champagne; what they had was pretty good but was said it was inferior by the mountain host. Perhaps I need to go o Utah or Japan but in the meantime I am working on my technique in readiness.
Although one  said the snow at Cas for the recent ski test was good, I thought it was too granular - like sugar and not slippy, perhaps a waxing mismatch ?
So why not use sugar, or something better & avoid needing to use refrigeration  If you look at http://www.snowbusiness.com/ you see they use paper/ plastic which looks authentic - I wonder what it skis like
On the sme program there was a boffin who had invented self lubricating skis which sounded viable, don't know what happed to that idea
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....but in the absence of anything else!
I find Braehead ok. There are occasionally icy patches but then there are occasionally icy patches on mountains. It is annoying when they fill the slope up with ramps and jumps and things but, I guess that's where the biggest market is. The snow is quite granular and I don't take my best skis, it's just nice to be able to ski in the summer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I much prefer Milton Keynes to Tamworth because MK has wide straight slopes but Tamworth has a bit of a blind corner to go round at the top and so everyone takes the same line which creates a massive icy patch. The plus side of Tamworth is that it has a magic carpet lift rather than a button lift, but you have to walk along green matting to get to the bottom of the lift as there was no snow laid out at the bottom. At least at MK you can ski right round the corner to the bottom of the button which does have snow.
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It's interesting that no other UK snowdome has copied Tamworth by installing a travelator, which presumably has a higher uplift capacity than a draglift. I recall visiting Tamworth as a building site, and the late decisions they took on the travelator installation, and its teething problems, so it's interesting to see positive comment on it.
The Tokyo Ski Dome - the most expensive snowdome ever built (now demolished for an IKEA) - had a travelator and two detachable quad chairlifts ... and no draglift.
Tokyo had brilliant snow on its opening day. Tamworth was harder underfoot when it opened. I'm not sure which snow system is being installed at Hemel Hempstead - anyone know? And what kind of lifts are they putting in there?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I haven't been to Tamworth for quite a while but when I visited MK I remember thinking the drag lift to the top was much quicker than the travelator at Tamworth, where it seemed to take an age.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Could be worse Dendex eeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww
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David Goldsmith, every time I ever went to Tamworth one of the travelator was out of action. However, I do wish MK had gone the same route, I know of several people who have been put of MK as they hate draglifts.
I seem to recal being told the Tamworth snow is scraped ice, whereas MK is snow.
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You know it makes sense.
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From a commercial point of view, if you load skiers on a travelator (running at lower speed than a drag, but presumably with skiers closer together) you have a relatively short queue and lots of people on the lift. People don't necessarily get fewer runs - they're on the lift rather than in a queue.
Psychologically, people are therefore more likely to be on the move all the time (watching skiers come down) and maybe not realising how few runs they're getting for their money!
What's a typical number of runs per hour in a snowdome? At Tokyo the set-up was amazing: quick rides up on the high-speed chairs, and a pacy gradient. But I guess it lost lots of money, for one reason or another.
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