 Poster: A snowHead
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It's pretty early I know but we are already thinking about next year and are planning a trip to Les Arcs in March en famille... all 10 of us! So I'm trying to get some information together.
Does anyone know...
- When the skitrain (Eurostar) tickets for next winter become available?
- What the approximate cost is likely to be if we manage to book early? (left it late last year so paid a fortune)
- Whether the train is likely to stop at Ashford or will it move to Ebbsfleet next year?
A long shot I know but you never know, there may be the odd Eurostar expert browsing this! Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Gerard McNeely, I'm beginning to realise that this is not an easy question to answer because:
In season, Eurostar run through-trains from St Pancras (via Ebbsfleet) to Moutiers, Aime la Plagne and Bourg St Maurice, reclining seats, no couchettes.
Alternatively, you can catch Eurostar to Paris Gare du Nord and change to SNCF to the same destinations - if I have understood it correctly you generally take the SNCF trains from Gare de l'Est during the day and Gare d'Austerlitz at night for couchettes (don't quote me).
Or alternatively again, you can take something called the Snowtrain overnight (with couchettes) that leaves directly from Gare du Nord.
Confused? - I am.
The couchettes vary too - "1st class" means 4 to a cabin, "2nd class" means 6 - and with 6 lots of ski baggage too that can be problematic - and I don't think that the Snowtrain (the convenient one, from Gare du Nord) has 1st class.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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NEVER AGAIN. 
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Unfortunately, despite two extra days skiing, that's my sentiment exactly. 
Horrible and cramped couchettes and an absolute pain getting between all the various forms of transport. Whoever said that going by train is the civilised way to get to the Alps had never done it...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There is a direct Eurostar to BSM in Winter with a promo return price of about £99 (I think) but getting that price will be at a very early booking date. Schedule is supposed to be released soon.
I don't think I'll do the couchette again and there is some talk of a minibus (16 seater with 10 passengers . . . enough room for plenty of kit - - and a beer shop) from somewhere in the East Midlands for next year. Maybe Peterborough via Norwich, BsE, Ipswich and all points A12 South 
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Nick L,
Its actually Gare de Lyon for the daytime change in Paris to Bourg.
Would agree not to do, ever, an overnighter again without couchettes, however, I haven't done it with, but friends who have done the 1st class option have rained plaudits on it. Each to their own I guess.
Daytime change, 1st class each way, excellent. Less than £200 a head return (fairly late booking - using railbookers.com - you can only book SNCF 60 days in advance) excellent stuff, and will be repeating next year for the 4th consecutive time.
It is civililised, comfortable, spacious, gets you there mid afternoon on the Saturday, and beats the crap out of the airports+ transfers if travelling in large party and particularly with kids.
I am a zealot!
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skisimon, which train version did you do then for the EOSB?
Was it the Friday nighter that arrives Saturday morning and then leaves the following Saturday night?
Was it cheaper or more expensive than flying at the time?
I have had a look into getting the train before now and have always fancied trying it, especially when I went for 2 weeks to Val D the other week and the launderette in Val D cost me a fortune to do the washing! For 2 week holidays I can see the benefit because luggage weight isn't a problem by train, but because I'd have to drive to London to start with I've ended up flying from Gatwick instead and have never got round to it.
Masque, re minibus as in driving the whole way to the EoSB instead from East Midlands area?
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| Quote: |
| with 6 lots of ski baggage too that can be problematic |
When we did an overnight train from Paris it worked OK, because the other 4 people were young Italians who actually wanted to sleep, not young Brits who wanted to drink and brawl. Got off the train at Aime La Plagne and jumped on a local bus to La Plagne for a few francs. But yes, there's no room for baggage; essentially you stow it on your bunk. You must travel light. On the way back, for whatever reason, I had a whole compartment to myself (my husband having been flown home early by the insurance company because the roof blew off our house in a freak mini tornado and I stayed on in the chalet without him). So it was very pleasant. You don't necessarily sleep all night, but it's comfortable lying down. I wouldn't pay much to sit up in a seat all night. If sitting up in a seat all night you might as well go by coach at 30% of the price.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w,
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If sitting up in a seat all night you might as well go by coach at 30% of the price.
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Hmmm very true. I reckon if I ever go to the Alpes by train I'll do the daytime option, but do you get any extra days of skiing that way? Can't look on the Eurostar website to check because the ski train bits aren't operating yet.
I also looked at coach travel recently too and its very cheap indeed, I just don't know if the savings are worth the time sat down all that time. Saying that a chap I spoke to in Val D said him and his wife prefer coach travel instead of flying because they get on it and stay on it and thats that. Does anyone know how often the coaches stop on a journey to the Alps i.e does it take forever because they stop for an hour at a time or something like that?
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| Quote: |
Does anyone know how often the coaches stop on a journey to the Alps i.e does it take forever because they stop for an hour at a time or something like that?
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when I've done coach they've just done a pee stop, every few hours. It doesn't take long, with two drivers. No longer than an expensive flight to Canada or the States!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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VolklAttivaS5,
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| I'll do the daytime option, but do you get any extra days of skiing that way? |
Not really. You arrive mid - late Saturday pm, and leave 9:30 ish from Bourg on the Saturday. So, well... no!
But.
I understand that they may be running daytime Sunday services as well next year, which might work, but don't know if that's going to be part of a Sun-Sun package.
They did a Sunday return a couple of times this year IIRC so people had to be careful about the accommodation they booked since there was a need for an extra night's stay.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Gerard McNeely, could you amend the thread title as it links to the trains website unless you click on just the E to get into the thread. If you use Euro_star or similar it won't.
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Nick L, Note the standard Eurostar does NOT have reclining seats which makes sleeping a bit difficult.
But for me it is the quickest and easiest "door to door" way to get to the 3V's. I take the saturday DIRECT service from St pancras and am in Moutier in 6 1/2 hours is bliss. 30 minute check in, no wait for baggage on other end, no hire car at airport and a 30 minute cab or coach ride up the hill and I am skiing.
I usually take the saturday day service getting in early evening without hitting any transfer traffic and then take the Sat evening (around 11PM) service home and get a bit os sleep knackered after a weeks skiing, getting in early to St Pancras.
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You know it makes sense.
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Whether the train is likely to stop at Ashford or will it move to Ebbsfleet next year?
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The Ski service only stopped at Ashford this past season but I heard from the customer service people that Ebbsfleet is under consideration which would be great.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What's the parking situation like at Ebbsfleet/Ashford? I can't always get trains that work for me in terms of linking up with St P but if I can drive to either of those then it would make life easier for me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, ah yes the direct service from London St Pancras to Bourg St Maurice would be my preferred option which takes a bit longer than to Moutiers but still 7.5 hours isn't bad at all and once you're on the train that's it, I assume you pay a bit more to have the direct service rather than the cost of a Eurostar to Paris and then an SNCF to the Alps from there? The Saturday evening option direct back to London St Pancras would be good to get the following Saturday as an extra ski day.
FenlandSkier, I did have a look at parking at London St Pancras and it was very expensive. I don't know if I would get trains to match up from Hereford to London St Pancras as I think from here the train goes to Newport first, then a short change to London Paddington and then the Underground to London St Pancras, so a little bit of luggage moving for me if I go via train. Because of that I just don't know if flying or rail is least hassle?
Which version did the EoSB people do by train for some of them to say they wouldn't go to the Alps by train again? Do you know?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FenlandSkier, ashford seems to have plenty of long term parking, i used it a couple times without worries and i understand but havent used it but ebbsfleet has a deal with bluewater shopping mall you can park there and get a shuttle to the station.
i paid 175 by memory on the last trip for the direct but i think it ranges from around 150 to 225 depending on dates. take out the need for a car or coach from the airport and the price isnt too bad IMO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| [Which version did the EoSB people do by train for some of them to say they wouldn't go to the Alps by train again? Do you know? |
We went Eurostar to Paris, Metro across Paris to join the sleeper service to Moutiers. I know some have vowed never again but I'm one of the ones actively looking to do it more often.
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FenlandSkier, There's parking at Ebbsfleet as well as Ashford. Unless you live nearer Ashford (like me) Ebbsfleet will be no different - in fact it's a bit less of a walk from car to train.
I'm not sure about the overnight on the Eurostar .. wonder if there's an early enough TGV from Paris Sat morning - so ski Sat pm ?
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FenlandSkier, what did you like about it that the others didn't? How did you get from Moutiers to VT?
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I think the biggest faff was getting across Paris and this is got rid of by travelling on the Snowtrain (which leaves from Gard du Nord). Other than that, I did not find it too difficult to get to sleep (once we had got rid of the party animals!) A touch of spirit alcohol helps, as do the earplugs which they supply.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How come you guys didn't take the direct train from London St Pancras to Moutiers either on the Saturday morning or the Friday night and then back to London St Pancras the following Saturday morning or Saturday night? That would be the option I'd be going for if I do ever go by train and that eliminates the getting across Paris thing. Is there a snag with the direct option and that's why you didn't go that route?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 8-05-08 16:59; edited 1 time in total
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It just worked very well for me VolklAttivaS5, I left home about 1330, 1 taxi and 2 trains later I got to St P, the Eurostar was a pleasant experience catching up with old friends and some new. The sleeper was a bit different, but I did get some sleep in (after we ran out of booze) and all of a sudden we'd arrived at Moutiers. From there it was a quick taxi ride straight to the door of l'Oxalys.
Being refreshed and ready to ski first thing in the morning wasn't something I could have done flying in the same sort of timescale.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FenlandSkier, thanks. So you left at 13.30 on the Friday and arrived at the Oxalys early the Saturday morning like 8.00am or something? Did they let you dump your stuff at the Oxalys and get changed and that to go skiing on that Saturday?
I see from the website that the direct service ceased operating after 13th April-that would explain why you had to do the change in Paris option then?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 8-05-08 17:15; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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1428 Train from Spalding
1523 Train from Peterborough
1730 Eurostar from St Pancras
2100ish arrive Paris and take the Metro from Gare du Nord to Gare d'Austerlitz
2226 Sleeper service to Moutiers
0700ish (I think) arrive Moutiers, choice of either wait 45mins for VT transfer bus (cheap) or take taxi direct (dearer).
We got a (very) early check-in to our rooms but dumping the bags with reception would have been an option as well.
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FenlandSkier, thank you, ooh you are helpful! The VT transfer bus, is that the one that's run by altibus or someone?
So even though it was on a train, off a train, on a train, off a train quite a few times in a row you would definitely do the same next year instead of flying?
How much is the taxi from Moutiers to VT? I see its about 30 mins transfer time, apparently.
Sorry to keep asking you so many questions! 
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You know it makes sense.
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My problems are all with the sleeper train-
First class (advance ticket so not expensive) from Nottingham to St Pancras was very comfortable.
Eurostar from London to Paris was fine, IMV definitely not worth paying any more to upgrade to first class (v expensive).
Bit of a pain lugging bags across the Metro from one station to another, but at least it's all on the same line.
The sleeper to Moutier. Good in theory but there's not enough space on it for skiers bags, and the carriages aren't ventilated well enough. 1st class is barely acceptable, second class is horrible.
My main problem is that all this came to £280 odd. I could have flown Easyjet from Eastmidlands to Geneva, and spent two nights in Geneva (Friday on the way out, Saturday on the way back) and paid for transfers, and it would have been cheaper, and I'd have got the eight days skiing, and two nights of better quality sleep.
Overall I'd love to use the train again in theory, but in practice I thought that it was very expensive and not very comfortable.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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VolklAttivaS5, the direct service from St Pancras does not have couchettes. In First Class the seats recline and are three acroos the carriage, in Cattle Class they don't recline and are four across. Don't expect to get any sleep as the staff seem to wonder up and down the carriages all night and the pneumatic end-of-carriage doors are wonderfully noisey as each one comes through... again... and again... and again...
Having done both, the couchettes with change in Paris is infinitely preferable IMHO. On one of the trips this year I came back during the daytime (still changed in Paris) and would agree that this is probably preferable to flying as it seems more relaxing watching the countryside go by rather than standing in yet another security queue at the airport.
There was a bit of a scrum at the Eurostar check-in at Gare du Nord on both return journeys however (not helped on the second occasion by a huge number of Japanese which British Customs seemd to take an inordinate amount of time to clear).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Kramer, yes I can see what you mean. I've worked out the cost for me and it seems it work out to be about the same as it cost you. Flying is a lot cheaper although who knows if the same sort of flight prices will be available next year or not. For the EoSB next year it will have to be East Midlands for me too because I couldn't see any flights from Birmingham this year, they put the kybosh on them after 13th April I think.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've sat down, worked out the costs and I would have been £10 in pocket if I'd driven . . . mind, I don't know what L'Oxalys(sp?) charge for parking. Two or three in a car would definitely be better value. If I did the train again I'd take less crap (which I'm working on anyway) and I'd go for the seats but take a sleeping roll and crash in the cycle space . . . I'd have slept just as well there as I did in the pressure cooker couchette.
I think the Friday TGV would be the best option with a night in Moutiers or BSM. There's a couple of very early trains from BSM to Moutiers that'll cost you 3 Eu for the ticket.
Next year it'll be a minibus with a dozen or so in it . . . or perhaps a Lardie Expedition Coach ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque, we paid 30 euros for 4 nights at L'Oxalys, special  rate. normal woudl have been 50 I think.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Re: EarlyTGVs from Paris - at Easter, Friday being the Bank Hol, we went Fri pm E-star to France, had a very pleasant evening in Paris, hotelled in a room for 4 for €100 (ie €25 each, inc breakfast) close by the Gare du Lyon and caught a TGV early enough to arrive in BsM for lunchtime. V civilised, and a great way to start a holiday.
Parking at Ashford iirc used to be £40 per week, expect it is slightly greater now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| Next year it'll be a minibus with a dozen or so in it |
reading this discussion it looks as though chartering a coach from London could be something to think about?
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pam w, would you get 40 people who wanted to travel by coach? It's not the best way to travel of you want to get any sleep.
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Elizabeth B, I've no real idea of the economics of coach travel, but people make a profit running coaches to the Alps for £60 return so to compete with those high train prices maybe you wouldn't need a full coach. That would make it more comfortable - and you'd get no less sleep than sitting up in a train, or on a couchette with all your luggage round your ears. And it would be right to the door, unlike train, and allow two extra days on the slopes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just to echo some comments above. I would rather sleep in an airport than take the sleeper again. It may be ok for elves or pixies but not good if you are full size and like lifes little treats (such as a shower).
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I've done the snowtrain (Euro$tar to Gare du Nord, then change on to the sleeper service at that station) a few times and always had enough sleep to function the following day. In each of the coaches one of the cabins was allocated as a luggage store so bigger packs and skis could be kept there. On the way out a shower and breakfast at the hotel when we arrived in resort refreshed us for a day's skiing, and on the way back you can pay a few Euros for a nice shower in Gare du Nord so you do feel relatively human for the Euro$tar journey to London. Next season I'm going to look at either TGV or Euro$tar daytime services as the cost of car hire and petrol is getting to be prohibitive for every trip. Just wish it was a bit easier to book the train tickets, and that it could be done further in advance.
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FAQ
