 Poster: A snowHead
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Natives' resort reporter Andrés Hidalgo in Soldeu has accused the French government of a virtual blockade of the Pyrenean resort of Andorra after he claims, the French government refused to clear roads to the resort leaving 6,000 tourist stranded... Snowheads may remember that we reported that 300 Brits had to spend an uncomfortable night in their coaches when they got stuck in heavy snow.
http://www.natives.co.uk/news/2005/02/20ando.htm
To be honest, Andorra may look very important when you live there but the local French authorities probably had other thiings to do when the biggest storm of the winter hit their mountains. Electricity supplies were cut to many French villages for several days including one ski resort and effort was concentrated on clearing roads to local communities. The French state has invested 10s of millions of pounds over recent years improving the road link to Andorra depsite the fact that Andorra is a haven for smugglers and a home to dodgy financial institutions.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
The French state has invested 10s of millions of pounds over recent years improving the road link to Andorra depsite the fact that Andorra is a haven for smugglers and a home to dodgy financial institutions.
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Do residents of Andorra, or its tourist visitors, pay any taxes to the French state? (that's a genuine question - I don't know, but it would be very interesting to know more about this).
Who runs Andorra, by the way? Does it have a democratically-elected government? The existence of smuggling and dodgy financial institutions suggests corruption in government, if a blind eye is being turned.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As far as I remember, Andorra has two heads of state: the French president and a Spanish bishop. If I'm right, the French can't really complain about it being a tax haven, etc - it's their version of the Channel Islands.
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All you need to know here David (if you trust them WMD & all that!))
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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With 80% of their GDP from tourism you would have thought that making arrangements to keep the roads as clear as possible would have been a priority.
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| Slowplough wrote: |
| All you need to know here David (if you trust them WMD & all that!)) |
Nice to see "Disputes International: 0" 
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| With 80% of their GDP from tourism you would have thought that making arrangements to keep the roads as clear as possible would have been a priority. |
according to the Native's article they offered snowploughs to clear the road... maybe a solution is to make the whole access road from Porté Andorran territory then they can keep it clear themselves? Although this is probably simplistic because if avalanche's threatened the road who would keep them clear.
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Slowplough, thanks for that. If the US decides to invade Andorra (the CIA info. noted) to 'smoke out' the smugglers we can assume that the roads will be cleared.
The Andorrans may, of course, prefer that the roads are blocked in this scenario.
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There's no doubting its an odd place.When I was there(El Tarter)it had a sort of Spanish feel about it  As it runs its own democratic government,I would imagine its co-principality status is more historical than anything.Mind you,neither the French or Spanish will ever give way because of its gateway status.Difficult to see how either side could receive any significant tax revenue,no one appears to pay any 
I was told the native language was dieing,rapidly.Also told that young Andorrans preferred Spanish over French(though this may depend on which side of the hill you're on)It has got to pee the French that so many tourists use their facilities to access Andorra.Its easy to picture the French sticking two fingers in the air at every opportunity.Now that Andorra is,apparently,spending shed loads of its 'funny money' to upgrade the lift structure,I would think the French are even more distressed  I,like many,like the place;but it is a torturous transfer.
When we were there,saw loads of Spanish busing it in for a days skiing.Don't recall much traffic from the 'other' direction 
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| Quote: |
| I was told the native language was dieing,rapidly |
If you mean Catalan, I'm surprised. My understanding is that Catalan is thriving in nearby Spain. Catalan identity certainly is - you see far more Catalan than Spanish or French flags in the Catalan areas of both France and Spain.
I'm also unsurprised that Andorrans lean towards Spain rather than France - it's a geographical thing. The road into France is long, steep and tortuous, whilst the Spanish access road is relatively wide, flat and straight. Also, the capital is much nearer Spain than France, and the main road up the valley to France is gridlocked for much of the year. A few years back I drove there from Perpignan, down on the French coast, and my journey home via Spain was considerably quicker than the 'direct' route through France. The French mountain pass still had snow beside it in June.
I'm surprised that so many tour operators use Toulouse as an access to point to Andorra. It's bound to lead to delays when bad weather strikes. But perhaps that's only their customers' problem...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="Jonny Jones"]
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I'm surprised that so many tour operators use Toulouse as an access to point to Andorra. It's bound to lead to delays when bad weather strikes. But perhaps that's only their customers' problem... |
What do they care on the few weekends that reps and billies get stuck overnight or their coach spins off on a hairpin. Much better than half an hour's extra flying to Barcelona. I think you have hit the nub of it Jonny.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lourdes airport is closer than either Toulouse of Barca.
I understood that the massive lift infrastucture modernisaton in Soldeu was due to the investment by a Spanish bank (Banesto?)
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| T-Dub wrote: |
| Lourdes airport is closer than either Toulouse of Barca. |
Could be a useful stopover on the way back.
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You know it makes sense.
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laundryman,  Wonder if it would improve me skiing.......
Been to Lourdes though, a strange place, calm serene Grotto, surrounded by tacky tourist shops selling plastic Virgin Marys.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Helen Beaumont, I'd heard that. I've been in the region a couple of times, but I must admit to not have being tempted to check it out.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Jonny Jones, snowskisnow, Andorra falls loosely within the Basque region so Basque language, Euskara, is also likely. Basque culture and Euskara language is alive and kicking (just visit Bilbao and San Sebastian, and ask the Spanish & French governments every time the Basque separatists bomb something/one).
I also imagine the French were having enough trouble in their own Alpine resorts - I imagine the French thought processes were something along the lines of "Well, at least skiers in Andorra can get out on the Spanish side....inside our own country's resorts we're having enough problems clearing roads as it is."
In any case I'm with rob@rar.org.uk - who exactly is responsible for roads and clearing thereof? And, even if it is France, considering the roads from Toulouse link Andorra with a significant proportion of their skiing punters, surely the Andorran local authority has a back-up plan for road clearing if France is unable/unwilling?
Seems a weird situation.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The French have a history of being difficult when it comes to letting people go through France to get to another countries resorts, by selective pricing they made it impossible to run a ski train through France to Switzerland so I would not be at all surprised if there was a little bit of this going on with Andora, not that they would ever admit to such a thing of course
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Toulouse v Barcelona: Landing Fees. Just did a quick check, and the difference in landing fees is around €100 for a 737 or A319 (basically the Easyjet fleet) Toulouse charge approx €220, Barcelona charge €320.
Reducing costs by 1/3 makes a big difference to the budget airlines!
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| Manda wrote: |
| Andorra falls loosely within the Basque region so Basque language, Euskara, is also likely. |
Loosely as in 'not'. Catalan is the local language/dialect. The Basque country is wedge shaped, with the easterly (thin) end well to the west of Andorra.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Reading my original comment about Toulouse vs Barcelona as an access point for Andorra, I'm surprised that I expressed surprised that tour operators should take the cheapest rather than the best option for their clients. In addition to WTFH's observation about landing fees, Toulouse is significantly closer to the UK than Barcelona. Fuel costs, aircraft depreciation and staff time would reinforce the benefit enjoyed by Toulouse. I imagine that, as a smaller airport, Toulouse offers a shorter turnaround time for aircraft, too.
So next time you're stranded in a Pyrenean snowdrift and unable to reach your resort, you have only yourself to blame. You got your holiday £2.50 cheaper that way.
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Manda, laundryman, Catalan is the official language of Andorra. Spanish (Castillian) is widely used and in Pas, French is the dominant language. If you hear a Catalan speaker it can sound like a dog barking in comparison to mainstream Spanish with hard endings to words. Of the roads up from the Spanish side, the only "good" main route is the Barcelona road. I am not surprised at the actions of the French, it may have money as its root cause-as in "give us more/some"
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
So next time you're stranded in a Pyrenean snowdrift and unable to reach your resort, you have only yourself to blame. You got your holiday £2.50 cheaper that way. |
Well I bloody didnt!!! I booked up to fly to Barcelona last May and the bug gers still changed it Toulouse, their reason was " Barcelona couldnt guarantee them landing and take off slots" what the?!?!? (First Choice, Last Resort)
And Catalan is thriving as far as im concerned, I studied it at Uni, and our tutor was paid by the Catalan Regional peeps to come and "spread the word" , also comes in handy for the Valencia region as its pretty much the same
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| Quote: |
| Catalan is the official language of Andorra |
. Glad that's sorted! I only mentioned Basque as it has a thriving regional language and speakers are predominantly in the far north west of Spain and south west of France so I imagine some Euskara might be heard in Andorra, if only from passing Basques..... I heard/saw Euskara frequently in Pamplona/Bilbao/San Sebastian, which is only a hop skip & jump from Andorra although granted Andorra is closer to Barcelona - both fall squarely within the Catalan "catchment" area. (Am off to hunt out the Euskaran for "So what does a Catalan do when the French won't clear his roads"  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Manda, Not sure, you may do better than me, I am still struggling with Castillian, can get by ok in Valencia though. Found my Spanish was not understood in Pas, so switched to French-that worked
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snowbunny, hubby gets very confused with foreign languages.When we went to Barcelona last year, he didn't know hos French from his Spanish, and I think he ended up speaking Catalan,
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I know the French customs have been checking up at the boarder.
When we were there this year, we were stopped on the way back to Toulouse to have the drivers papers checked etc.
Apparently other coachs too were being held up adding 15 - 30 minutes on the journey.
But there has been a massive investment in Andorra with the linking of the pistes / resorts and it seems mad that the transport infrastructure isn't being reviewed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I know the French customs have been checking up at the boarder
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More victimisation of the Darksiders. Where will it end?
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Frosty the Snowman, Possibly better than chucking up at the boarder 
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You know it makes sense.
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rob and sharon said
| Quote: |
| there has been a massive investment in Andorra with the linking of the pistes / resorts and it seems mad that the transport infrastructure isn't being reviewed. |
Bingo - except I wonder who, exactly, is supposed to be responsible for "reviewing" it? Andorra? France? Spain? A combination thereof? Eurgh. Sounds like a diplomatic nightmare.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I spent 15hours on the 13th of feb getting into soldeu
2 spent finding my ski's, after the french baggage handlers refused to take them off the plane (union thing), 1 spent in a car park while the driver worked out his plan of attack, 2 spent driving uphill in a blizzard, 30 minute spent putting chains on, 1 more hours up hill, 1 hour spent in another car park while the french closed the road, 5 hour later after driving in through spain we arrive in the resort! As our hotel was 2km out of Soldeu and uphill. As we set of looking forward to getting a few hour sleep, as it was 4am, the bus started to climb, then slowed down as the blizzard started again. When the driver started to pull away he slid across the road, trapping the back of the bus against the crash barrier, leaving us trapped for a further 2.5 hours, untill they could find another bus to pick us up!
The rep had jumped ship 3 hours earlier, the driver was french and had driven in storm conditions before! And i was sat on the back seat singing ( Self Preservation society )
FANTASTIC!!!!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman, you need to visit Lourdes. It is a very, very weird place indeed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The more I read, the more I grateful to the fact that I tend to travel in Switzerland by train
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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...and the more I remember why I've never gone back to Andorra.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="davidof"]<b>Natives' resort reporter Andrés Hidalgo in Soldeu has accused the French government of a virtual blockade of the Pyrenean resort of Andorra</b> after he claims, the French government refused to clear roads to the resort leaving 6,000 tourist stranded... Snowheads may remember that we reported that 300 Brits had to spend an uncomfortable night in their coaches when they got stuck in heavy snow.
http://www.natives.co.uk/news/2005/02/20ando.htm
To be honest, Andorra may look very important when you live there but the local French authorities probably had other thiings to do when the biggest storm of the winter hit their mountains. Electricity supplies were cut to many French villages for several days including one ski resort and effort was concentrated on clearing roads to local communities. The French state has invested 10s of millions of pounds over recent years improving the road link to Andorra depsite the fact that Andorra is a haven for smugglers and a home to dodgy financial institutions.[/quote]
Hi, <b>I´M ANDRES HIDALGO</b> the guy who wrote that article and many others on Natives.
<u>First of all, the article shows MY OPINION and not Natives´</u<>. We, the reporters dont make money with Natives, its an Ad-Honorem activity, trying to keep the people informed from first hand.
I live in Bordes d´Envalira wich is very near to the French border,<b> I work in a Hotel as receptionist and 2 of the buses that where in the middle of that storm belonged to my hotel, so i know very well how was that issue since i did the check in to all that people who came very late, hungry and pissed about the road status. I know what happened that night, because the police, firefighter and mountain rescue teams were in the lobbie of my hotel keeping us updated about everything.</b>
Its true, that night was a mess but i dont mind if French authorities got "worst things to worry about" the fact is the fact and I dont report for France, I report for ANDORRA, and they didnt cleaned up the road. thats a fact and I dont mind if you like the truth or no. ITS A FACT.
To post that problem was very usefull because half of the british tourists that come to Andorra enters by France, and i thought that information was important. Many people wrote me about this problem and I tryied to keep everyone updated about the accesses status.
Again, I dont mind if French authorities were too busy over those freaking nights, THE ROAD THAT ACCESS TO ANDORRA IS PART OF FRANCE, IS A FRENCH ROAD AND ITS HIS RESPONSABILITY TO CLEAN IT UP TO KEEP ALL ACCESS OPEN.
Thats all i want to say.
Andres.
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Hi Ian, if you want to know the snow status in Andorra, check my snow reports at www.natives.co.uk 
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FAQ
Sounds like you had a fun trip 