Edges angle question

A snowHead

After a week in Verbier last week my 5 stars need waxing & edging. They'll probably need the odd repair also as the snow was a bit sparce!

I can't seem to find any info from Volkl on what the angles should be.

Should I be requesting any specific angles or do I just leave it to the shop? If I leave it to them what angles will they set?

Ise, I know you've made comments about factory edge angles elsewhere so I'd be interested in your opinion.

Also, I planning on going to EB's at Castleford but would I better waiting until I'm in C1550 in Jan.

A snowHead

My 5 stars are on a 88/0.5 angles, I've no idea what the factory edge was and I'd be fascinated to know what they shipped at. I have no idea what constitutes a normal angle in the average ski shop, you'd could get people here to start asking their local service guys, it'd be interesting to know the answer.

If you're serious about the condition of the skis then you ought to consider doing it yourself and play with the angles, start at 90 and drop in two steps to 88 and see if it suits you. Below 88 you'll maybe need to reduce the sidewall to get the angle and it's starting to get serious and hard to get back to higher angles.

Edges can go quick, being able to tune if you're away for a week will make the skis more consistent each day and gives us a consistent base (pardon the pun) to work on our skiing.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ise,

Thanks for that. A further question though......as the angle reduces, say from 90 to 88, how does this change the characteristics of the ski?

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At 88 you're increasing the grip of the ski on turns, this is usful on hard pack/ice or steep slopes, there's a marginal speed increase as edge friction is reduced the ski should run a bit quicker but it's probabaly not important.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

ise, I currently run my Sally 3Vs at 88/1.5, that reminds me, I need to get the vices out again soon... Very Happy

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Wear The Fox Hat, I have 5 pairs to do before the weekend, I really must do something about them.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

ise, Wear The Fox Hat,

So guys, you're both using an edge angle of 88 degrees but what does the 0.5/1.5 angle do & what's the performance difference between 0.5 & 1.5?

After all it is free

spyderjon I'll try to explain...
88 degrees is the side angle, i.e. the angle between the base of the ski and the side of the edge, so a 90 degree would look like this.
________|

Whereas, an 88 degree is something more like this...
________\

(greatly exagerated)

So, the next one is the base angle. Instead of the edge being flat with the base, you put a bit of angle on it (and I've no idea how to show this using ASCII characters!)
The greater the base angle, the more you have to commit to a turn to get the skis carving, but also, the more they will run true on their edges in the turn. Racers will run with maybe 3 degrees on the base.

Wear The Fox Hat,

Great graphics!

I think I understand. So the base angle (ie. 1.5 degrees) is effectively a chamfer that 'breaks' the edge where the side angle meets the base?

If I want to buy the gear to tart up my edges whilst away what do I need to buy?

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If you look at Facewest they sell small kits which is a good start.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

spyderjon, the Toko manual is available here for download.

I think most shops will set recreational Volkls to 1base/2 side for 89 degree enclosed angle. This is perfectly adequate, so long as there are no burrs left on the edge. Very basic kit would include something to take the burr off, and something to sharpen the side angles only. Mistakes in base-side edge bevel are nigh impossible to correct without a base grind.

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spyderjon, please read what follows in a strong "Dirty Harry" accent snowHead

Before you go attacking your very expensive edges with files, stones, angle grinders and hedge trimmers, ask yourself "do I feel lucky?" Do you honestly believe that you personally will be able to feel the difference between 88° and 89° ?

Please don't take this comment as anything other than genuine concern for your wallet Shocked

By all means use a small diamond file or stone to remove nicks and burrs, but think very carefully about going further.

I have always skied my new skis "as received", whether direct from the manufacturer or from a shop (but then I don't race). One thing I have consistently noticed over the years is that, after the first "service", they never seem to have the edge grip that they had from new. I'm not as wise in the ways of the force as ise and His Excellency, but this suggests to me that the manufacturers had it about right and that most shops may be doing something that they shouldn't.

Alan Craggs, seems a fair point to me. I noticed on one of the above links the DaKine edge tool is quoted at 90 degrees (dont know if its adjustable). If its not then surely if the skis are ground to anything less than 90 and you used this you'd end up blunting the edge even more.

You know it makes sense.

Alan Craggs, well if they ground too much they'd be robbing you of any base angle that was there.

As I understand it, a bit of tune makes things a little bit easier, so I'm all for it.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Lightly tuning your edges with one of those 90 degree edging files generally works fine, and also extends the life of your skis: it takes away less metal than if you do an 88 or if you get a shop to do any kind of machine tuning.

A snowHead

A snowHead

What do people use and recommend for edge tuning at home?

I've got a Toko multi-angle tool (I think it was called a 'Pocket Tool' or something like that, it's not in the current catalogues anymore). It has two sets of small files at right angles, you can dial up different angles. I'm not sure how much good it's doing my skis - the files don't seem to sharpen that well (how sharp should the edge feel when you've finished?). And I have doubts that it guides any sort of accurate angle, it's hard to keep it all evenly pressed into the edge and base with each file stroke

Could be time to invest in some proper diamond files, vices and file guides methinks?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The multi angle tools are fine to take on a trip with you I find but at home in my "ski service and storage facility" I use real files. I'm not too impressed by the actual files in the multitools and I agree with what you about the accuracy.

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files get completely boogr'd by the little burs that form when you kiss a stone or rock (it tempers this tiny part of the steel to very high hardness) that's why you have to remove these burs with a diamond stone and then your files will stay sharp and able to dress your edges (I'm staying out of the angle question 'cos I set my board angles like skis which makes it very twitchy but carve like nothing else on earth).
As for edge sharpness, you should be able to peel a sliver of fingernail when you draw it across at any point on the edge. don’t try to remove too much metal when you use an edge tool if you’re just dressing the edge and not shaping the angle.
ps. the alpine boards in the vid will have edges you can shave with Shocked

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I only ski neck deep powder so this all seems a little irrelevant...

On a more serious note, I replaced my broken 9Xs with new ones last year, and having skied a pair on loan I found the new pair hideous. Nasty snatchy grip and a strong disinclination to slip - making stopping an entertaining event. One trip through the edge machine and they were back to being a joy.

So in that very small samplpe, manufacturer's edge didn't do it for me. Anyone got ideas as to where one might find out what config they dial in at the factory?

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks for all the feedback. As far as can I gather, I think this is how it works:

A low base angle (say 0.5) makes it harder to go from edge to edge but gives great grip when you get there, like a slalom ski. Whereas a higher angle (1.5) makes going from edge to edge more forgiving, especially at speed.

The side angle determines the level of edge hold. 90/89 give a reasonable level but is still forgiving. Less angle, say 88/87 gives higher performance, especially on hardpack & ice but less forgiving etc.

Have I got it right?

I'm still unsure what to set my skis to.

Suggestions sought on appropriate angles for a strong S&R level 7 skier on 5 stars who loves carving (especially after my Warren Smith course in Verbier last week). I'm thinking 88/1 or 88/1.5 ?

After all it is free

It must be worth checking the angle Volkl uses for your ski? The dealers should have a tech manual. I would want to know, before I picked up a file. And what angles are on them now?

At the end of last season, I discovered that my skis were being serviced incorrectly. A flat base and 90 was all the shop ever did or had tools for. I had assumed they returned them to the manufacturers spec.

Whatever angles you select, you can be one step closer to a consistent tune.

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Ise - You obviously know what angles you want.

But, if Spyderjon knows how his edges shipped, and what they are now, at least he will have some basis for his decision.

(Sorry, I had adjusted my post before I saw your reply)

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RobertC, ah, I get you, yes, what you don't want is to alter angles each week, that'd be pretty irritating Very Happy

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ise, Yes, and shortlived!

Took my 5 stars in to EB's at Castleford yesterday morning & had a chat with the technician. He said that in his experience that Volkl ship the 5 stars with side angles between 90 & 89 degrees (although they're always consistent on each pair) & with a 0.5 side angle. Because of this varience when servicing they always cuts them to 89/0.5 unless specified by the client, which is apparently very rare.

RobertC, EB edged & waxed my skis earlier in the year & set them to 89/0.5 so I know what my angles are currently set to which as you state (& the technician agreed with you) is important to know.

ise, with the technicians blessing I've gone with your set-up of 88/0.5 which should give me a bit more edge grip but will still feel like my 'old' skis going from edge to edge etc.

You know it makes sense.

Let us know how the five stars feel with the new set up, Spyderjon.

I have enjoyed this thread, here in Japan, while waiting for snow. I could not get a clear answer about the edge angles out of the Japanese shop that sold me my 5 stars. That trouble you had, ise, by the way, scares me off touching the edges myself.

I just hot waxed all the family's skis this weekend - my first try at hot waxing. And we will be off to Niseko next week to try out our new skis. I suppose the famous powder is not quite the right thing for supersports...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Seriously though, unless you race on bullet proof hardpack, you only need edges that are not too bumpy and wiggly, if you stick to the pow, you don't need them at all.

Help!!

Edges angle question

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