 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, it's sort of a Friday thread but there's a serious side to my point too. My wife and girls have been skiing for years and years now - wife a bit older than me (I'm 47) and girls are 23, 21 and 16. My point is that as time has moved on, whereas I'm keen to try more difficult things, do more off-piste etc, they've become more reserved. They're perfectly good skiers, in fact I'd said advanced intermediate+ or more (the girls have skied every year since they were about 4, sometimes twice annually). The issue with the girls is maybe a bit more to do with the "I want to ski with Mum" sort of thing but with my wife I get a bit more frustrated. I daren't tell her we're going on a black (I tend to do all the route planning etc) but 9 times out of 10 once we're on it it's not an issue and occasionally she'll even say she's pleasantly surprised. Anyone else experience this and do they have any remedies ? Is it a confidence thing ? Surely it's not age related. OK, I can go off and do my own thing (and occasionally do) but it's fun to ski together and it's the only family holiday we have now so I like being with everyone.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You're lucky - I can't get mrs perv to do a red let alone a black! The remedy? Search me. I took up snowboarding (partly) to slow myself down but after a couple of days was on reds so that didn't work. If I have to ski with the wife I tend to cut the corners off the runs by going off-piste and then meet up with her lower down. Not always possible of course.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not when there's cliffs in the way !
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dsoutar, I would say that my wife was until a couple of years ago "going the same way" as yours. The things that have a difference for her are:
1. Improved fitness
2. Lighter, ladies skis
3. A few good quality one-to-one lessons
4. Taking a holiday with some friends whom she was determined would not out-ski her 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nick,
Good point, especially 1 I think. Every year she says "I must get fit" and tries but she has put on a few pounds in the last few years and finds it more difficult to shed them as she gets older. It's easier for me as I cycle loads off and on and though I am just as inclined to put on weight, I can shift 8kg in 2 months if I have to (I know, I shouldn't allow that to happen but I get lazy in the autumn). She does now have her ladies skis and they have helped but maybe point 3 is the way to go. Point 4 didn't really work 'cos we have friends where it's the reverse (the wife is the really agressive skier), so she just says "Great !, you go off with her and I'll ski with the husband"
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dsoutar, same thing has happened to me as to your wife! It's biology, we don't have the same testosterone, and I think confidence is something that decreases with age.
I think women need to concentrate much more on technique, so that they can be very confident they have the skills - in fact are over-qualified to ski whatever it is they’re about to ski. These skills are best built up on slopes where your wife’s confidence doesn’t come in to it, ideally with some lessons from a good instructor.
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dsoutar, re Nick L's no 4 - this might work well if she went on a girl's weekend? Did for me - one of my friends is slightly cocky, has been skiing for much longer than me but not a huge gap in technique. Funnily enough I became much more 'gung ho' all of a sudden. Did my first black on a girls weekend. Sent a pic of the piste sign to hubby & boys, they were surprised, mind you so was I 
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Nick L has identified some key points there. All relevant to me, too. I find if I am following someone else round a ski area - which I've done several times in the Espace Killy - I have absolutely no idea where I've been. I still have little or no idea of the area, whereas if I'd planned the days myself I'd have a general feel for the geography. That gives one a much greater sense of mastery and control, rather than just "tagging along" especially after someone faster and more confident. So maybe allocate some "route finding" days to the other members of the family (and promise not to moan .
My daughter was a neat and tidy but very slow skier until an Aussie complete beginner cousin came with us. He was very athletic, strong and fearless and having discharged himself from ski school after the first boring day was threatening to overtake her down reds by the end of day 3. She was absolutely determined he wouldn't, and her speed just rocketed. She never looked back.
I'm not a fast skier on the whole, and have no problem at all with "slow days" which give a chance to look around and enjoy the view, be sociable, practice doing silly things on one leg etc. It's trying to feel you're always having to go a bit faster than you want to keep up with a hustle merchant. I did push myself one afternoon when out with a guy who had been nagging his wife about her slowness all the morning. She opted out in the afternoon, insisting she "didn't want to hold anyone back". She's a lovely lady and I'd enjoyed the morning with her and felt very cross with him as he really was not quite as good as he thought he was. For not very reputable reasons I decided to up the pace in the afternoon and rather than let him go in front, which was clearly what he always did, I hustled myself to keep out in front and enjoyed seeing him get a bit flustered and out of breath. It was very childish, but enjoyable to give him a taste of his own medicine.
If your wife doesn't have some mates (or the girls) who might enjoy a separate trip she might like to do one of the "Inspired to Ski" courses for women - which might well be less competitive than the mixed courses. But maybe she really has no particular wish to become a sh*t hot skier, preferring to have a relaxed potter with the girls, feel 100% in control all the time (maybe that's a girl thing - I do, too) and not risk challenging your position as fast man of the family.
If your wife improved her skiing to the extent that she could outski you if she wished, how would you feel about it? Some men would find that difficult.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As a lady skier in her fifties dare I suggest that enjoyment is what is at stake here? I have no need to prove anything to anyone except myself. I know I can get down a black if I have to but certainly don't seek them out deliberately. On our last ski trip I noticed my 27 year old daughter adopting the same attitude! She is the most elegant skier I have ever seen and skied the long black in Alpe d'Huez (forgotten its name) without batting an eyelid - but now she seems to want to enjoy skiing rather than 'prove' anything. I suspect there is also a male element of trying to outdo each other in the bar describing your days skiing?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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All,
Thanks for your responses which in general have been helpful. The point that maybe the last few posts haven't quite answered from my OP is that my wife is sking much more conservatively that she used to. She used to ski off piste but now it's a no-no and I just wanted to try and understand why. I agree that like most good women skiers she probably has better technique than me. I could undrestand if she hadn't skied any difficult stuff in the past.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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dsoutar, Do they wear helmets? My friends wife, who goes away with us regularly has been skiing for years and in the main gets private tuition, but was still very cautious. That was until she got a helmet and all of a sudden she became more confident. Whilst not exactly doing off psite, her confidence and therefore ability improved immediately.
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Janska, agreed. I feel no urge to ski "more difficult" runs and if faced with a choice between a red and a black usually choose the red. If faced with a choice between a day blasting round mindlessly at high speed and a focussed ski lesson I'd always choose the lesson. As for the men boasting about their day's skiing - absolutely. Once they've stopped pouring scorn on anyone taking more than 2 hours from Calais to Reims, that is. I don't know whether competitiveness is biologically linked with testosterone or not, but your average woman is less competitive, I'd say, than your average man. I normally feel no urge at all to "compete" with anyone on a ski slope - it was only because the guy I spoke of above had been so obnoxious to his wife that I got all childish (or male!) and determined to get one up on him.
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You know it makes sense.
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Another reason to try and get my wife doing off-piste again is it's nice to get away from it all a bit. There are loads of itineraries in the Alps which are not technical demanding at all, in fact some of the stuff people do is way too hairy for me (see another forum I've started in Resorts). I've spent most of my leisure time in the mountains over the years and we both really appreciate their beauty (maybe not the young girls though unless there's some young good looking male skiers around).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PamW - I can do childish as well if I have to - fun isn't it!! We are going to Lech on 14th December - fancy racing round the Weisse Ring?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Janska, Have fun! I've always fancied Lech - never been, and not likely to now, as we have an apartment in France. 
dsoutar, I'd like to do some off-piste too, and have had some lessons in powder, but am pretty useless and definitely lack confidence, which I don't on-piste. I'd love to do a week's "off piste beginners" course but it's too expensive and as we have our own apartment, which is a moderately expensive undertaking, holidays which require paying a lot for accommodation elsewhere in the Alps are OUT. How does your wife see all this, incidentally? It's all very well doing things that are hard work, expensive, sometimes uncomfortable and occasionally dangerous provided you've decided for yourself that it's what you really want. I like sailing but have learnt from experience that someone who didn't really want to come can get quite stroppy when it gets nasty!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My daughters (21 and 19) are both confident, competent and adventurous skies. I'm the same, but less competent. My wife is quite competent (able to negotiate blacks in most conditions) but not so adventurous. We normally plan quite long trips together, but the girls and I will frequently do sections off-piste while arranging to rendezvous somewhere very specific at the bottom of a piste with Mrs L.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 21-11-08 16:16; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Janska, agreed. I feel no urge to ski "more difficult" runs and if faced with a choice between a red and a black usually choose the red. If faced with a choice between a day blasting round mindlessly at high speed and a focussed ski lesson I'd always choose the lesson. |
I don't quite understand that, as to me skiing other stuff (off piste, trees, bumps, zoomy stuff) is the equivalent of a focused lesson, just learning by doing. Bimbling about on easy reds and blues is just blasting round mindlessly, whether at high speed or no and I'd much rather see what else is on offer.
Maybe its a learning by doing/learning by being shown thing that broadly falls over the gender divide?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mrs Boris is the same - just enjoys her skiing but no wish to go mad.
Like others I have developed a strategy of:
1. Skiing alone
2. Meeting at set points and taking different routes down
Luckily my kids are now old enough to be getting good - so I ski with them!
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Great !, you go off with her and I'll ski with the husband"
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Are you sure she is "skiing" 
but really, this is and interesting topic. My OH is a pain. I think it is in the mind. She will happily ski down any red untill she see's it's a red !! then she's scared, frightened and its, well... hell !!!
I am not out to "prove" anything, i just like being free and doing whatever i like. Prob is, OH dont like anything but easy blues and wants a full run dowm of how difficult it is!! I do not plan journeys, i just ski by time and know where i have to be to get back at the end of the day. I dont want OH to be serious off pister, just want her to be able to ski any piste whatever the couour. I dont want to seek blacks, thats testosterone, good skiiers can make fun in most places.
Keeping in line with OP..... they (blooming women) do get more cautious as they get older......... maybe us guys just need younger models 
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Just for the record I have the opposite problem. Skiing with my husband is just plain boring and he's younger than me 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You mean I am going to get less confident....crap.
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She used to ski off piste but now it's a no-no and I just wanted to try and understand why.
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ASK HER!
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I understand totally where the women are coming from...
I'm a middle-aged gal skier who started skiing at the tender age of 8. I guess I can get down pretty much anything, but if it's really steep, bumpy, icy or whatever, I often go to pieces. I stop enjoying it and it starts feeling more like a chore. I also have an inate fear of black piste markers for this very reason...
I realise some of this is now down to my health woes, but I'm also perhaps just a bit of a wuss. I like it when the conditions are good and when I feel in total control, but ultimately I'm out there to enjoy myself, not scare myself rigid...
I guess it's just this testosterone thing us gals lack. So be it...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Two things spring to mind (although I dont think its a gender thing) apart from the well made suggestions above.
Firstly to get as technically competent as possible, and specifically- stopping, which can boost confidence when skiing faster, a good thing to practice would be hockey stops to a ski pole at greater and greater speeds until the skier knows for sure their capacity to stop from speed should the need arise; and skills/tactics for steep ground, like side slipping, kick turns etc, plus an opportunity to practice on steep pitches that are short.
Secondly to appreciate that one of the great things about skiing is that it can be enjoyed at many levels and is not necessarily a competitive sport, interestingly I have also seen many "slow" female skiers that were way better skiers than their "fast" other partners.
The worst possible thing would be for the slower skier to be pressured in to skiing; fast, off piste or steeps, then having a bad fall and never skiing again.
Having said all that, I am more than a little guilty of pushing my partner out of her comfort zone for my own benefit, but hopefully not too far.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The worst possible thing would be for the slower skier to be pressured in to skiing; fast, off piste or steeps, then having a bad fall and never skiing again.
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You read my mind. Spooky. 
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One way or another that's quite a few of us who have said the same thing. What does she think? What are her goals?
I also asked - if the OH went on an off-piste course and came back really enthused and exhilarated and could outski hubby - would he be delighted, or a bit peeved?
dsoutar, over to you on all questions.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It could be that she is now more worried about getting hurt - although I usually see this in mothers who have younger children, thinking along the lines of how the family would cope if Mum was out of action for a while.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Cunners,
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Bimbling about on easy reds and blues is just blasting round mindlessly, whether at high speed or no and I'd much rather see what else is on offer.
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as I said, each to their own. In the few resorts I've been to, it's plain to see that not all reds are easy by any account. I'm at the point of dabbling at other things, but nothing better to me than lots of varied reds and blues (not too proud to ski greens though not many where we go), I doubt many on here would class that as mindless bimbling ....
Anyway, doesn't 'bimbling' contradict 'blasting'?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lou, I would say so - bimbling and blasting would seem to be complete opposites!
FWIW - people who are or have peopl;e who are worried by the colour of the piste should come here and I'll show them red pistes that are blue, blue pistes that are red, reds that are harder than the black next door to it and even in one case a blue that is really a black! That usually cures them.  Seriously.
dsoutar, Did she have a fall off piste? Did she do a really long descent which exhausted her? Dis she have to ski in some really crap snow? There deffo must be a reason why she took against it. OTOH maybe she always hated it but now has the confidence to say no - it does take some confidence to do that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Anyway, doesn't 'bimbling' contradict 'blasting'?
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Yes - and I have nothing against bimbling. I bimble on one leg, then the other (green pistes are ideal for trying to get those turns on the inside ski nailed), bimble backwards a bit, jump over (very little) things. Trying out things I've learnt in lessons. You can't really do that when you're blasting, though the occasional blast is fine. But I do suspect (to respond to a point above) that more women like to learn new physical things by being taught them by an instructor they trust. I certainly do - and would be very happy to follow someone like easiski off the piste. But following a friend or relation who knows (or thinks they do) only a bit more than I do? No thanks. It's not a matter of being timid, or lacking confidence, or being afraid of crashing and hurting yourself (if I was afraid of that I wouldn't have strapped myself to a snowboard for the first time shortly before drawing my old age pension). But it's a bit like reading instructions before starting to put your Ikea flatpacks together, or asking the way rather than crashing round cursing for hours. Maybe it's just a more common female way of doing things.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Fair point about the piste grading. Some are bonkers. The green run called 'Verte' in VDI for example that any Italian resort would proudly label as a red. There were a couple of blacks in Kitz that I really quite enjoyed (and one – 38 Direttissima – that made me cry like a baby). Piste marker colouring isn't really a safe indication of what you're going to get...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| But I do suspect (to respond to a point above) that more women like to learn new physical things by being taught them by an instructor they trust. I certainly do - and would be very happy to follow someone like easiski off the piste. But following a friend or relation who knows (or thinks they do) only a bit more than I do? No thanks. |
Oh yes, ain't that one the truth. If you don't trust your own judgement, how can you trust the judgement of someone with barely any more experience/skills? Learning to trust yourself, especially if you learn anything as an adult, is probably the most difficult part ime
I think there's a lot to be said for bimbling/pootling. As slow as possible, as fast as necessary. My goal has always been to be overqualified for anything I choose to ski. Having said that it is all too easy to build things (e.g. "black pistes", "bumps", "off piste" or particular nemesis slopes) up into monsters in your mind and when you finally pluck up the courage to defeat the demon you wonder what you were worried about
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I don't think it's a gender thing but a personality thing. I'm a female in my forties (though going on 21 of course!!). Although I enjoy cruising blues & reds in a "this is very pleasant, the scenery is nice & it's better than being at work" way, I far prefer pushing myself. My favourite skiing and boarding days are usually when I've had at least one "I'm skiing at my limit" moment. Guess I'm a bit of an adrenaline junky which clearly many people aren't. On the other hand Mr Blizt is happiest on blues & reds so if there's just the 2 of us skiing together either I go off & do something harder whilst he has a drink or lunch and/or we split up at the end of the day - he takes the blues/reds home & go off & have a blast somewhere else for an hour or so.
I really can't see any reason to push people to do runs they aren't comfortable with unless they want to move out of their comfort zone. To me that's a great thing in a group skiing holiday with people of different standards - get the group right & everyone is catered for from those who simply want to meander pleasantly down a blue to those who want to do steeps & off piste
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easiski, is right about the piste gradings, but until April this year I would have taken some degree of convincing that she was right, although I know now she is.
One or two folks have nearly got the answer right as I see it. That is that I think as women get older and wiser, they start to realise that they are the linch pin of the family even though your daughters are grown up, and therefore they can't afford to get injured. Also, given the age of your daughters I'm guess that your wife is no longer very young and it is possible that she is aware that calcium drops and the menopause could also make her more prone to injury
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sat 22-11-08 15:55; edited 1 time in total
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The girls are going to enjoy themselves and you are going to challenge yourself.
As long as everyone is having a good time them whats the problem?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
That is that I think as women get older and wiser, they start to realise that they are the linch pin of the family even though your daughters are grown up, and therefore they can't afford to get injured. Also, given the age of your daughters I'm guess that your wife is no longer very young and it is possible that she is aware that calcium drops and the menopause could also make her more prone to injury
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I don't think that's the way I feel. I'm old enough to know I'm not the lynch pin of anything; my kids are all very capable of taking care of themselves, my parents are both dead, though at one point I did have major responsibilities for them all, including being the family bread-winner. So, I could now go ahead and throw myself down some couloir (the OH would have a nice inflation-proofed pension). But I was never very prone to over-reaching my abilities in any sphere and I believe I have always had a pretty accurate feel for their limitations. Maybe I'm just a control freak. In fact I'm sure I'm a control freak. If I'm in charge of a boat I know where I am and where I'm heading, and have at least one contingency plan, always aware of what's on my lee, etc etc. I don't do anything ambitious or risky and if I realise that I've been a bit "lucky" and got home in one piece despite making mistakes or misjudgements I feel really bad about it. It doesn't give me a thrill at all, though provided I feel on top of things, or preferably with someone far more capable than myself who is making the decisions then a wild ride with the rail under is great. I can now ski better than I could in the past, having done so much in the last few years and had lots of good lessons. With more time, and more lessons, I am sure I'll improve more, but equally sure that I will remain temperamentally incapable of throwing caution to the winds and "hoping for the best" and launching myself down something which I think might be too much for me just for the hell of it. With a good instructor who knows me, knows the slope, and says "come on, you'll be fine", I'll go anywhere. But my objective in doing so would be to push the boundaries of my "comfort zone" so that I can do more without straying out of it. I have certainly skied with women whose own "comfort zone" is much too small - they can ski fine, but are scared and tend to freak out. I think that on-piste my comfort zone and my skiing and physical ability are in reasonable accord though that's not the case off-piste. The OP's wife has not spoken - it would really be interesting to hear from her directly but perhaps she doesn't give a stuff!
I'd also still like to know how the OP would feel if his wife became a stronger skier than he is.
The point about group skiing is a good one. It's nice to ski as a family, and we do sometimes, but one son is just light years ahead of the rest of us and though he enjoys himself with us for a while, mucking around and going backwards and 360s and one legs and all the rest, it would be desperate for him always to have to ski on our territory and at our speed. Going on one of the specialist courses where people can ski at their own level and have expert instruction is a good (though expensive...) solution. If people are feeling patronised, bullied, bored witless or scared sh*tless, nobody has much fun.
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FAQ
for women, very solid technique is the answer, but many women will never be daredevils. Get them lessons every time you go - one or two private lessons should do the job. They will become more confident and therefore end up skiing better than you. 
