 Poster: A snowHead
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Please don't misunderstand the question as I have no thoughts either way.
I was just looking at the SCGB web site and even though I looked at many pages I could not find the "reason" you would want to join.
They give some discounts but these (or more) are available from most of the companies anyway. They offer a guiding service but we (my family and I) prefer to hire local mountain guides or ski instructors as they tend to be fully qualified and also they will be "locals" and have a really knowledge of the local “off the piste” areas. They offer a forum but you have to join (pay) to post a question although this one is free. etc etc etc
So, should my family join?
Thank you so much for your time in reading my question.
Ali
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 6-11-08 21:33; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ooooh - where's that can of worms little picture thingy......
Alison Arulia, I am sure you will get a reasoned response but this forum may be the wrong place to ask such a question  - as snowHeads was only started by Admin when the SCGB restricted their forum to members only without warning. It used to be open access.
Bear in mind the SCGB reps are free to use, you don't have to pay to use them just turn up at their meeting point if they are based in your resort. Getting a 10% discount off say a holiday to Canada is pretty good if you choose the right TO. If you join up in resort you get 2 years membership for the price of 1. And you get a nice glossy ski mag.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PS - I'm not a member. Used to be though
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think the best advice for you at this point might be, "DUCK!"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Alison Arulia, I think your thread title should be more, Should I join?
I can't see a real reason to, but others obviously like it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think I have met a few people who were skiing in a Club group with a guide in Courchevel a few years ago. They all seemed very nice. They said it was a wonderful thing to join but my husband asked they why they didn't just going skiing own their own (there around 10 of them) and they didn't know. I got the feeling they were in the ski club because - well they were in the ski club because they had always been in the ski club.
I hope that makes sense.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
Alison Arulia, I think your thread title should be more, Should I join?
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Sorry to offend anyone, how can I change the question.
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Alison Arulia, I wouldn't bother, but only YOU have the power.
(or a mod natch)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have changed the question so as not to offend anyone. I am sorry if my original did
I really would like to know what benifits do we get. We have been "credit crunched" as much as anyone so we can't spend money if there is no reason.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Alison Arulia wrote: |
I think I have met a few people who were skiing in a Club group with a guide in Courchevel a few years ago. They all seemed very nice. They said it was a wonderful thing to join but my husband asked they why they didn't just going skiing own their own (there around 10 of them) and they didn't know. I got the feeling they were in the ski club because - well they were in the ski club because they had always been in the ski club.
I hope that makes sense. |
Absoloute sense and probably why they have 35,000 members (who presumably forget to cancel their standing order payment every year) 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As a Nobby no (ski) mates skier I've found the ski club to offer a great service as far a repping is concerned and I still ski with the same group I met in Obergurgl a few years ago. Some think the repping service is a bad idea; I don't, I think it's great. You could always join for a year, ski with a rep and get your money's worth from some discounts and then, if you decide it's not for you, don't bother renewing your membership.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was planning on perhaps doing a bit of skiing with the rep this season in les arcs, in case i run out of snowheads to play with and get bored running around on my own, but I'll 'suck it' and see approach. Annoying the social is only in 1800 so I'll struggle to get back to plan-peisey after a drink, but I suppose I could always walk up to charmettoger and head-torch it and just boot it along the road to mont fort...could be amusing in its own right..
I'm not going to pay upfront but will just cruise along and see if I like the sound of what they're doing. I can't imagine that I'll need someone to show me the way round however - and I'm a bit concerned that it's a bit of the 'downhill only club' as per 'on the piste' but I look forward to being proved wrong.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You have all given me lots to think about
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For me, membership more than pays for itself in discounts. And I like the magazine, I use the website daily for weather, historical snow, news and the forum, I enter their competitions, I get snow reports and newsletters, I occasionally watch their internet TV channel, I really enjoy their holidays and social events, I've used their insurance in the past, I've met some great people through the club and - best of all - skiing with the reps and other members has inspired me to ski far more challenging terrain and far better than I had ever hoped to previously.
I joined for the insurance a few years back!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I joined to access the website and skitv..the offers and discounts have never really factored,though have started to use them more recently (especially 10% fat face)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Alison Arulia, from what you say in your OP it's not obvious that the club has a lot to offer you that you're not getting already (FYI I've been a member for about 8 years). If you're a family, then the discounts could well be a saving, but as you say judcious internet shopping can often match - although if you're doing a big US/CAN package I can see the deal is probably well worth it. In my case the Freshtracks holidays and repping service are the main reasons for my membership, as I'm frequently going on trips by myself, and these are superb for single skiers. If I squeeze in a half-week somewhere I may have a day or two with a rep, rather than skiing by myself - and I couldn't really justify a guide just for me. More useful for me though are the off-piste holidays, where they make up groups of about 6 of a pretty similar standard, with some excellent guides, which are normally very high quality (not necessarily cheap, but very good value for money) - although as with everything in life there is always the chance that it can go wrong. They certainly introduced me to whole new worlds of skiing I didn't know existed before. But it sounds as if your family group is sufficiently compatible that you can do this kind of thing for yourselves, and there are other guiding/instruction companies around now as well that also address that niche. There's very little point in joining for the forum as the forum here is better than the club's offering, and if the timing works for you and you want a bit of social skiing there are occasional get-togethers of SnowHead skiers as well (look in the snowEvents section)
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Thank you to everyone.
We have decided not to join the ski club.
We can see the benefits a little more clearly now. The discounts are useful, sometimes.
The guiding service seems to be one of the main things that members like, although I would always prefer to ski with a mountain guide or a top qualified ski instructor for safety reasons -> on this point I must admit to having seen a few of the people in the green jackets and to tell you the truth the simply were not that good at skiing when compared to others who’s main role was to lead others around the mountain whether for instructional reasons or for simple adventure. Maybe we were seeing some of the lower qualified guides, so they will be others who were better (I hope). But even if there are better Club guides, the simple "ability" to personally ski off piste well does not (in my opinion only), qualify you to lead others safely. Nor does participating in a short course of leadership skills. I am not sure how long it takes to become a mountain guide or ISTD instructor but I would think it's quite some time. There are sufficient numbers of (qualified) guides and instructors around so that we have never had a problem just calling into the local ski school wherever were and booking someone to take us off piste. Not once is the last 20 years were we ever told there was no-one available.
I may be wrong about the history, but I think the Ski Club was formed to organise races over a hundred years ago and, like many organisations that have outlived their original purpose, they are still here, well, just because they are here. This is NOT to say there is not still some use to their existence but the decline is inexorable – although organisations such as this tend to have sufficient cash to be able to afford to not only justify their existence but also to employ people to ensure this justification is “put out” so it looks as if they really do have a reason to be there.
The main thing I have gleaned from my google trip last night is that many people / member feel that the Club is now run by a small number of people who pass down their ideas about “their” club and anyone who disagrees is not welcome. I am not talking about a slight disagreement (this is a good for PR reasons to display the perceived democracy of the organisation) but I mean to disagree with anything that disturbs the status-quo and this small group’s position with the Club and any vested interest.
The difference between what you read directly from Club members and the official line of the Club is, to say the least, quite remarkable.
I think (having googled this for some time) the main benefit to members is that they are able to meet like minded people and to "feel part of a club" which for many seems to be the major thing they are looking for.
Thank you again for the feedback.
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Alison Arulia, I think you're getting confused about the term "guide". The Ski Club reps, AIUI, are purely ski hosts in the same way that a TO's ski hosts are - they are there to point out good restos, to take you to nice runs, maybe to spill the beans on where there's still a decent stash of powder a week after it last snowed and basically to show you the best of what the resort has to offer. And, as you say, it's a good way for solo skiers to hook up with a similarly-minded group. This is a very different animal from a fully qualified "mountain guide" with min. 7 years' training who leads off piste groups including on glacial terrain. Of course the Ski Club reps have to be able to ski well enough to take the vast majority of their guests wherever they want - a rep can't baulk at doing black runs for example - but they don't have to ski in an exemplary fashion, or be instructors, they only have to be able to get around effectively.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did think of adding to my reply with many (there are hundreds) of links, many in this forum, that refer to the Club guides leading them Off Piste. This is one of the major reason that people cite for going skiing with a guide.
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Alison Arulia, still different from a UAIGM guide though. Which is OK so long as everyone is clear about it - it sounds like it's a tad misleading
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Oh god please lets' not rake over the SCGB Repping issues here 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I joined 25 years ago when I took up skiing again after a gap of 20 years (I had skied with my parents as a child). I had no friends who skied so it was a way to ski with other people.
After a couple of years I started going on ski club holidays and that has remained as my reason to be a member. (It is also good to have access to the historical snow records of resorts - I sometimes quote them on here).
The advantage of the holidays is skiing with people of the same standard wanting to ski the same sort of thing. This is partly down to the Club ski grading system (you get a grading if you go on a holiday and you can also be graded by reps).
However I now organise my own groups of friends and they stopped doing pure "Gold" standard holidays a few years ago, since they claimed there weren't any longer enough people wanting them. However they do do Gold/Purple holidays (the next grade down) and if you are lucky there may be enough people on the holiday to make a nearly-gold group - so I am giving them another try this year. I must confess, though, that the last 2 times I tried I found the holidays a bit tame compared to the others I do myself now. So I'm not sure if I'll keep up my membership. But who knows, perhaps when I'm 70 I'll want their over 50s holidays (I'm now 60 and staying clear of them!)
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I haven't read all of these answers. I have never been a SGKB member but I fully intend to in the future. Mainly because of the excellent Chris Davenport / Skiing the 49ers lecture.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just out of interest what are the grading systems used. You mention Gold and Purple.
Don't worry I am not for or against the club in any way. As long as people are happy thats fine by me. Just interested in the gradings as I have never really met up with anyone from the club other than a chap in a cravat in a cafe in Tignes last year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wayne, blue/red/silver/purple/gold, and sub-divisions going from A to B are A, A+ A/B B- B. Separate On- and Off-piste gradings (off piste from Red+ upwards). Descriptions here. IME, groups on holidays would normally be made up from people covering 2 or 3 of those sub-divisions. For a simple rule of thumb, a silver would be what most would class as a reasonable intermediate, a good recreational skier or basic level instructor will be somewhere around a purple (scrape a BASI L1 you're probably P-, L2 probably around P+), a gold would ski well enough to be a mid-level instructor (i.e. ISIA). I think it generally works very well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I joined (and am still a member) for essentially the same reasons as snowball, although there were two of us who wanted to go on the holidays and I only achieved Purple standard  Haven't been on a trip since I went to Fernie with them (a fantastic holiday) which had shot up in price by about 50% when looked at doing it the following year. May do again though someday.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I got the feeling they were in the ski club because - well they were in the ski club because they had always been in the ski club.
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That's probably exactly right for a lot of long-standing members. I joined because it seemed, after a fair bit of research, to be about the cheapest way of getting access to an insurance policy which covered what I wanted. The British Mountaineering one ran it a very close second. I could probably have got discounts, over the years (e.g. buying stuff in Filarinskis in Havant) but I'm never organised enough to remember it.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Alison Arulia, I am half in and half out of the ski club, some years I join some I dont! I do not get any of the discounts as I live in Ireland and they dont do deals with our airlines!! I join for the ski hosting! It is good fun and you meet like minded people like here for the PSB, MSB, EOSB etc.
You may be a little unfair of the ski reps skiing ability, they would be pretty good recreational skiers. Some well, one I have encountered was an ignorant phuqur and was only interested in having a holiday for himself, doing what he wanted to do and not what his members were interested in doing. His skiing was good but not a nice chap! On the scrounge and not buying a pint when it was his turn, no doubt you have met this type of person as well!
As eng_ch, said if you are wanting extreme you should use a UAIGM qualified member. But the ski reps dont pretend to be nor are they in this league, they are purely just lads and lasses that can ski and want to have a cheap holiday and help out like minded punters!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Alison Arulia wrote: |
Thank you to everyone.
We have decided not to join the ski club.
We can see the benefits a little more clearly now. The discounts are useful, sometimes.
The guiding service seems to be one of the main things that members like, although I would always prefer to ski with a mountain guide or a top qualified ski instructor for safety reasons -> on this point I must admit to having seen a few of the people in the green jackets and to tell you the truth the simply were not that good at skiing when compared to others who’s main role was to lead others around the mountain whether for instructional reasons or for simple adventure. Maybe we were seeing some of the lower qualified guides, so they will be others who were better (I hope). But even if there are better Club guides, the simple "ability" to personally ski off piste well does not (in my opinion only), qualify you to lead others safely. Nor does participating in a short course of leadership skills. I am not sure how long it takes to become a mountain guide or ISTD instructor but I would think it's quite some time. There are sufficient numbers of (qualified) guides and instructors around so that we have never had a problem just calling into the local ski school wherever were and booking someone to take us off piste. Not once is the last 20 years were we ever told there was no-one available.
I may be wrong about the history, but I think the Ski Club was formed to organise races over a hundred years ago and, like many organisations that have outlived their original purpose, they are still here, well, just because they are here. This is NOT to say there is not still some use to their existence but the decline is inexorable – although organisations such as this tend to have sufficient cash to be able to afford to not only justify their existence but also to employ people to ensure this justification is “put out” so it looks as if they really do have a reason to be there.
The main thing I have gleaned from my google trip last night is that many people / member feel that the Club is now run by a small number of people who pass down their ideas about “their” club and anyone who disagrees is not welcome. I am not talking about a slight disagreement (this is a good for PR reasons to display the perceived democracy of the organisation) but I mean to disagree with anything that disturbs the status-quo and this small group’s position with the Club and any vested interest.
The difference between what you read directly from Club members and the official line of the Club is, to say the least, quite remarkable.
I think (having googled this for some time) the main benefit to members is that they are able to meet like minded people and to "feel part of a club" which for many seems to be the major thing they are looking for.
Thank you again for the feedback. |
Hmm. You seem to be a fan of Google, so I find it hard to believe that you were unaware of the debate about SCGB reps and guides before you made your opening post. Indeed, forgive me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you started this thread so that you could publish the above, possibly from a vested interest..
I have left the Club, and so shouldn't care, but you do seem to be indulging in misinformation. All the reps I have seen in good resorts are at least up to the highest standards of skiing I have seen in non-professionals at snowHeads Bashes. There are off-piste rep-party days, though the scope of those is more tightly limited than in days of yore. The reps are not, and do not claim to be, guides.
There is some controversy within the Club at the moment about how the Club should be run, particularly with regard to the reps' system. Therefore I would expect some vociferousness from a small minority. The Club no longer suits me, but it suits 35,000 or so. I can see that that may be perceived to threaten some commercial opportutnities, and I wonder if that is the motivation for your post.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Indeed, forgive me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that you started this thread so that you could publish the above, possibly from a vested interest.. |
Given that THE hot topic of debate at the AGM in a few weeks is bound to be the repping service and returning it to the pre-"a little bit off piste" situation, then, yes, I'd say your suspicion is absolutely spot on. A contrived-looking enquiry.
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| Quote: |
Please don't misunderstand the question as I have no thoughts either way.
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well let's give the lady the benefit of the doubt and assume she's honest eh lads?
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Bode Swiller,
Once upon a time a Club with powder for the skis
Offered a rep to lead and said he could lead me so
But that was once upon a time, very long ago
Once upon a time we skied at places cross the sea
Stopping only for the stars and waiting for the dawn
But that was once upon a time; now the rep system's gone
How the powder dusted all our hair
How we always laughed as though tomorrow wasn't there
We were young and didn't have a care
Where did it go?
Once upon a time the world was sweeter than we knew
Everything was ours, how happy we were then
But somehow once upon a time never comes again
(with apologies to Tony Bennett)
I don't see what the Club an do about it really, the rep system as it was is shot, and has to be, no matter what the Val D'Isere Gang of 4 say.
Me? I'm glad I was in during the vintage years. But I think the Club will still suit an awful lot of its members.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" - and for that reason, I'm out.
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achilles, I'm welling up here.
Yep, the vast majority of skiers and boarders have no intention whatsoever of going off the piste. They may have a dabble and dream of doing it but prefer the prepared stuff. So, whether or not the club offers off-piste or not probably makes little difference to the membership numbers. On-piste guiding is probably more valuable, especially as the membership gets into its 80s . Not my business so I'll get back to annoying someone else.
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FAQ
My view....I am part of something,the best snowsports gang bar none,and you're looking at it 