 Poster: A snowHead
|
I just got a reply (in English!) back from the Japanese Marker representatives on the above topic, about which there has been the occasional question in the past.
I quote:
"About the edge angles, there are some range
of the degrees according to the manufacturer's
standard.
average
bevel 1.0 degree +- 0.5
side edge 2.5 degree +- 0.5
edge degree 88.5 (average)
Your ski should be within the standard but
we are not sure if the degree of your ski is in the
middle of the range."
I am not sure quite how these angles add up.
As to my particular skis, I had my first ski on them over the last three days, and I wouldn't want to change anything about them - they held a good carve and were very fast.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Nogs, that's OK!
So, the base bevel is 1 degree
And the side is 88.5 degrees
And the difference is 2.5
88.5 + 2.5 = 91 = 90 (to base) + 1 (bevel)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
All right, WTFH. Now I'm really puzzled.
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
And the side is 88.5 degrees
|
Why do you even trouble with this number? It can't be directly measured with a true bar. It can't be set directly on a file guide or diamond tool.
Why does everyone go to great pains to use it, even when it winds up confusing them? Isn't 1/2.5 entirely sufficient? What is at the root of this usage?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 30-12-04 16:47; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Or is 88.5 the internal angle of the metalwork?
If so, edge is 87.5 +-, or somewhere between 87 and 88.
Is the internal angle a figure used to set-up the expensive edge grinding machines?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| RobertC wrote: |
Or is 88.5 the internal angle of the metalwork?
If so, edge is 87.5 +-, or somewhere between 87 and 88.
|
My point precisely, thanks RobertC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Thanks for your explanations, WTFH, RobertC and Comprex - I think I've got it now.
I liked the honesty of the reply - "your ski should be within the standard."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nogs,
It was me who posted a thread on the same subject a while ago.
I actually think that's a pretty wide range from Volkl that they consider as 'standard'. I'm sure that your skis are within their standard, but just where exactly? With a tolerance from 0.5/2 to 1.5/3 that's a helluva difference in the performance of the skis between these two settings.
My problem was that I wanted to know what my skis were currently set to (ie shipped at) so that either I could ensure that they're re-tuned when necessary to the same angles, or if I wanted to alter their performance, that I new the current settings from which I could decide the degree of alteration. It appears that many shops just set the angles to what they consider best which would then give me an inconsistent tune from resort to resort.
Over the last week or two I've contacted many ski technicians & posted questions re 5 star angles on a number of forums & to known 5 star owners. The response has been pretty conclusive in that a ski of this type/performance should have a base angle of 1 degree & for optimum performance a side angle of 3 degrees - although 2 is still pretty good & shouldn't need as much maintainance, all other things being equal.
I picked up my skis today after a retune. Originally I had specified a 1/2 tune (which the store stated that they were actually currently set to - yippee, I'd finally found that out) but based on the advise I'd recently received I subsequently changed the specification to 1/3 & that was what they were cut to.
I skied on them for a couple of hours & they had a noticably better edge hold than I had experienced previously (& they were damned good before!), especially on hardpack/icey patches.
IMO Nogs, specify 1/3 angles each & every time they need a tune & they'll be superb.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Just to make a minor point, most skiers won't notice a 1/2 degree difference, many even a 1 degree diff. And most UK shops use machines which are set to 1 degree base, and probably 2 side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
My limited experience suggests, unless you ski near a shop you trust,
1 you will be lucky if you get the angles you ask for
2 the edges don't stay sharp for a week
3 it's simpler to maintain your own edges and pay for waxing in the resort
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the update on what happened, Spyderjohn. Very useful.
My ski shop, seems to be very clear about angles (http://www.websports.jp/tunning/tunning.htm) - they recommend three general types:
beginners / intermediates: side 90 base 1
advanced / expert: side 89 base 1
mogul skiers: side 89 base 1.5
and for those who want their own choice:
sides 87 / 88 / 89 / 90
base 0 / 1 / 1.5 / 3
I find this menu inspires a bit of confidence.
I think, in the light of the other wise counsel received herein so far (WTFH, Comprex, RobertC), that "1/3" then would be side 88 base 1 (I could cross-question the shop to find out. They are all very keen skiers working there.)
As for waxing, I bought a little iron, and it was great. All the family's skis were as slippery as hell.
Thanks for the comments, fellows, now my mind turns to something fat for the deep. Pocket Rocket?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Nogs,
1/3 gives a side angle of 87 degrees as it's actually measured from the flat base. The actual edge 'angle' formed between the side & base cuts is of course then 88 due to the 1 degree base bevel reducing the angle.
This is exactly the confusion that RobertC & comprex refer to above & I encountered when talking due different stores so it's worth you clarifying exactly what you want with the technician.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowskisnow,
Have a great time in Les Deux Alps. Deb & I are off to Courchevel in the morning - hopefully recovered from the flu we've both had over New Year.
A pal of mine is working as a ski tech in one of the stores in 1850 so I'm going to get a DIY servicing lesson from him while I'm out there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
RobertC,
I would go with this...!!
If you must have these edges, learn to do it yourself.
I do mine when I feel they have 'gone off' or when I expect ice...!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
)I've just serviced my 5* prior to going to Les deux Alpes this Monday(cant wait-cant sleep!!)Having asked around most seemed to feel that 88/89 edge would be about right.Also said there would be 'about' 1 on the base.My 88 file confirms this;perfect fit.A straight edge confirms a slight base angle but I cant measure it 
As I couldn't find a base file locally,I've had to skip this(perfectionist to the end!)However,a quick zip down the edges and they were like razors.I tend to agree with 
But you can do it at a time that suits you and,when you're bombing it down the piste,its all your own work 
