 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
As a novice skier, I have no idea where the boot position on the ski is supposed to be, but I think it's position is important, can you help?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
On top. Pretty sure of that. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Toes pointing towards the tips of the skis
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Nice one! isn't this site great, everyone is so helpful  now that we've reduced the options, could we concentrate on the position ALONG the ski?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
parallel to the direction of travel. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
In the bindings 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
biskum, seriously, this is a strange question. The answer is either that given by uktrailmonster or you are actually asking where, on the ski, the binding should be fixed. That, in itself, would be a strange question for a novice skier - most of us just accept that the bindings have been put in the right place on the skis, and click our boots (with our feet in them) into those bindings. Perhaps you'd like to clarify the question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All of the above answers are excellent and tecnically correct, now tht you've been instilled with this profound wisdom no doubt you'll start to wonder wheres the best place for the binding to be on the top of the ski once you've established which side is the top and what the direction of travel is 
The binding is normally mounted so the centre of the boot is alligned with a line on the ski as reccomended by the manufaturer based on who they think average Joe (or Joanne) skier is. Many believe this is not the best place for everyone, makes sense we are all different shapes and sizes and adopt different a stance and have our own individual biomechanics. Boot fitting and allignment (including binding position) aims to match the equipment to the person so it performs optimally. Much of this is dealt with in the thread below there are some really excellent contributions here, enjoy
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=965305&highlight=binding+mounting#965305
also see
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
| biskum, seriously, this is a strange question. The answer is either that given by uktrailmonster or you are actually asking where, on the ski, the binding should be fixed. That, in itself, would be a strange question for a novice skier - most of us just accept that the bindings have been put in the right place on the skis, and click our boots (with our feet in them) into those bindings. Perhaps you'd like to clarify the question. |
Seconded. And yes, I saw RPF's answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for your answer Trailmonster n co. The reason I ask is this, my boots are a UK size 13, they didnt fit in my bindings, so I unscrewed the rear binding and refitted it an inch further back. On the slopes, when I tried to turn left (on an easy blue run), the right ski would start lifting and doing it's own thing, the end result being me in a heap!. I went into a ski shop thinking I needed a 'wax', he looked at my skis (Ebay yellow soloman 160 jobs and I am 6'5") and laughed out loud saying they were impossible to ski with because the boot was mounted too far back. He convinced me to buy a new pair saying my problems would be over with his $700 170mm jobs, I think he mounted my boot one inch forward from the mark on the ski, but when I went on the slope again, he was totally right, both skis did what I wanted n no more falling over. So, I assume (based on my experience) that the boot position along the ski is very important, I was interested to hear what you experts out there thought on this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
biskum, I think unless you really know what you're doing it's a good idea to not mess around with bindings. From both a safety point of view and a performance point of view it's too easy to screw up with potentially serious consequences.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
biskum, I'd go along with rob@rar comment. As for binding positon, maybe its best explained by the first post rather than the post RPF highlighted, in that thread.
| Quote: |
| ...Currently, the positioning of ski boot bindings on alpine skis is determined by aligning a ski boot midsole mark indicative of the midpoint of the boot sole with a ski manufacturer's prescribed mounting mark on the surface of the ski. The mounting mark is typically a predetermined point which is generally determined by the manufacturer using statistical averages. Such a positioning system is ineffective for skiers whose physiology differs significantly from the statistical averages....Skiers positioned too far back or forward on their skis are not able to turn their skis as effectively and efficiently as skiers properly positioned at a dynamically neutral balance position on the skis who, therefore, have adequate control over the operation of the skis... |
If you really want to be sorted out optimally, you can contact spyderjon (who probably knows more than any other sH on the subject, and is a great bloke) and get on his crude-looking, but highly effective system that determines where your boots should be located. However, from what you have written, it looks as though your ski shop looked after you well, and you are now sorted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
biskum,  we could have had a 500 post thread on binding mounts that never addressed your problem.
Out of curiosity, what model were the original skis and bindings?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Comprex, I'm afraid I have no idea which actual skis or bindings they were (I gave them away cos I couldn't carry 2 sets back to the UK), bloke in the shop said they were over 10yrs old.
RPF, thanks for the info, very interesting!
Is Spyderjon any near Surrey?
To conclude, as a once a year one week knownothing skier, it would seem if you are not within the 'average' body dimensions and you aren't doing very well, there's a high likelyhood that you are not a failure, it's the fault of your ski setup! It's taken me 3 years, one ski shop and your valuable comments to come to this conclusion. One always thinks 'a bad workman blames his tools' but this isn't the case when skiing!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| biskum wrote: |
| ......Is Spyderjon any near Surrey?........ |
Nope. Near Nottingham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| biskum wrote: |
| To conclude, as a once a year one week knownothing skier, it would seem if you are not within the 'average' body dimensions and you aren't doing very well, there's a high likelyhood that you are not a failure, it's the fault of your ski setup! |
whilst your kit sounds a bit old, it's not unknown for people in France (in particular) to ski on kit that's 15 or 20 years old. I would strongly have suggested prior to spending more money on kit to book yourself on a 2 or 3 hour private lesson with a good instructor - name a resort and collectively snowheads can recommend severall good ones..
A good instructor would spot straight away any issues with your kit and would also be able to spot any issues with your technique that might need improving...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Funny you should say that Bertie, last year I ski'd on 1970's era Fischer ski's (the ski technicians at Massanutten mountain actually refused to help me set the Din tolerances on them) (fear of litigation strangling a basic human emotion to help someone........... God Bless America!) and not surprisingly I was pretty hopeless even when I had set them about right. I suspect those people in France you speak of have ski'd on those old skis from when they first bought them from brand new, either that or they are of average physical dimensions thereby the problems of the boot position is not so critical.
From how I see it, if your boots are in the wrong place, technique is a waste of time cos you haven't got the basics right and you are therefore trying to overcompensate for that original fault.
I like the idea of the neutral balance seesaw, as an engineer, I could make one very easily, if anyone wants to chip in any ideas before I knock a couple up, all input will be gratefully received
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
biskum, 1970's Fischers at Massanutten? How did I miss that? BTW, they did help you there are only maybe 2-3 models of binding that old I would still ski, and then maybe one sample in 50. They did not assist you in being foolish, which is the important thing.
At 6'5" you are not average, nor is your foot average at UK 13. You are dealing with problems pretty far towards the edge of any norm.
It sounds as if your ski shop guy is actually cleverer than the normal round of ski shops guys, to have noticed that -centering- a great big foot on a short ski has a very good chance of putting your weight way, way behind the actual camber point and waist of the ski if you are standing upright. Requiring either very great mobility at the ankle to get you centered or a huge bobbing of your 6'5" torso forward, the head moving almost a foot to& fro and leaving you with a backache at the end of the day. Forward mount in this instance = smart shop guy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
biskum, I think you'd find that if you sought knowledgeable advice on what ski to buy in the first place, and had them set up for you by someone who knows what they're doing, you'd find the binding position was absolutely fine. But if as a self-confessed "know nothing" skier you buy unsuitable skis off Ebay, then do a bit of random DIY on the bindings to get your feet into them, then maybe it's not really a big surprise if they don't work too well. I think you were quite lucky not to break your neck. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Comprex, my girlfriend's son broke them on the last day so I had to leave them in the apartment complex 'dumpster', if you were there in Feb 08, you would remember me, I had to remove my skis and walk down a blue run (swearing all the way down! my girlfriend was laughing so much that she also fell over and came sliding past me on her butt (the Lord has his way's!).
Pam, ain't hindsight a wonderful thing?, and a big wallet even better! When one starts off an interest, it is unlikely they rush straight into the nearest shop and spend a fortune on something they do once a year and aren't sure how keen on it they are any way, or is that just me?
Comprex, yeah, aint that the truth! if I had been 5'8" with smaller feet I probably wouldn't have had the problems. Funny you mention 'bobbing my 225 pound torso' cos that's exactly what I had to do to get the suckers to behave themselves whilst making my desperate descent down the slope!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ccl wrote: |
| Toes pointing towards the tips of the skis |
What if the skis are twintip?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
biskum, er, might be a silly question but if you're a novice skier and only skiing one week a year why not just hire - buying kit seems a bit over the top to me or am I missing something?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
roga, if he's hiring at Massanutten then he'd be better off buying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
biskum, I am about your height and foot size and i move my bindings slightly forward a few cm's on all my skis. I would ensure you get a longer length ski, at your height 160 is too short. I would say around 175 would be a better bet then the alignment wont be as critical.
It is very much dependent on the ski but the adjustment can be done easily if the ski has a mounting plate between the binding and ski but once you get into drilling into skis you had better know what you are doing.... Spyderjon is your man for this.
One simple way to determine optimal mounting point is to measure the skis running surface and then position your boot so that the centre of the ball of your foot is in line with the center of the skis running surface.
explained here http://www.telemarktips.com/BindingMt2.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| comprex wrote: |
| roga, if he's hiring at Massanutten then he'd be better off buying. |
Why, is it very expensive to hire there or the hire kit very bad?
I have to admit I've never heard of the place before!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
skimottaret, Although I'm rapidly deciding that ski length is a bit of a black art, I was going to suggest the same about the 160cm ski - I ski on that and I'm only just 5'9". Interestingly would the inch out on the shorter skis have been more noticeable than if it had occurred on a longer set of skis? Your reply above suggests that the short length may have exacerbated the situation, and I can see how this may have been the case - it representing a larger percentage of the overall ski length than on a longer ski.
Its all quite interesting.........
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Megamum, Ski length is mainly horses for courses... your height comes into play but for me it is mainly weight of the skier.
I used to ski on 205 long back in the day but typically use 177 or 180 ish skis for general skiing as i prefer a shorter turnier ski. I have Slalom skis at 165 which i found hard to use initially to but are really fun on piste.
Yes if the binding was way out of position on a shrter ski it will be more noticable. The longer the ski typically the bigger the "sweet spot" is for getting the most out of them performance wise. all skis are different though and that is a generalisation. race skis tend to be stiffer all along the ski and all mountain or off piste skis softer in the tails and shovels.
I have some head skis that are very floppy on the tips and i have moved the bindings forward on a few cm's and i can notice the difference before and after, but to be honest most recreational skiers wont notice a big change unless you are very tall, have big feet or are outside the "norm" for setup.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Just get Skizzo, end of.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| roga wrote: |
or the hire kit very bad?
|
It is not comparable to owned skis. And there isn't selection or competition.
| Quote: |
I have to admit I've never heard of the place before! |
Don't worry about it, Shenandoah isn't exactly the center of skidom.
Especially not with world-famous Mt. Porte Crayon just over the next set of ridges. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
The reason for getting skis was to save money, get a pair off Ebay for £40 or pay nearly that per day to hire, bit of a no brainer that one, trouble is, I didn't realise that if you're 6'5" and weigh 220lbs with massive boots (UK13), you are outside the manufacturer's normal ski parameters so ski choice and boot position becomes a bit crucial. Anyway I've now bought a pair of Atomic 170 nomads (blue) and have to say that they sure cured my turning problems.
I made up a pair of those ski see-saws and tested my neutral balance point on them last night, so, roll on next year.....Tremblant for me I think?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| biskum wrote: |
| I made up a pair of those ski see-saws and tested my neutral balance point on them last night |
What's one of them? 
| Quote: |
| so, roll on next year.....Tremblant for me I think? |
You could always get some practice in at a slope or dome somewhere, a year is a very long time to wait!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Oops, forgot to say that the skis are good, but of course it's the boot position on them too! So big yourself up the fella in the ski shop in the town of Lake Placid NY!
Roga, look at the link provided by RPF (7th Response), just start at page 1 of it
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
