 Poster: A snowHead
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The snow reports are one of the best things about the SCGB site in my opinion. And the Historical Records (not available for all resorts) are probably unique. A really easy way to quickly get snow and lift info for your resorts.
BUT - just when I thought this was going to be a bit of fullsome praise for SCGB, what do I find.......
They've closed the Reps Report area - yes it's MO in there too now. Conditions may be better on the upper slopes but unless you are a paid-up SC member you'll never know about them. Why? What was the harm in registered users reading what the reps said?
Given that some felt adverse comments about some reps was partly to blame for the closure of the forum, does this next step fit a pattern of rep protectionism? Any comments ... any SC members seen anything about this on the MO Forum? If not, perhaps someone could raise the subject.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kuwait_ian, I was a registered user, they have my e mail address, and oddly I now get mailshots from various ski companies. The rep reports were very good, I shall miss them. I am not a member however so feel that what they do is up to them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kuwait_ian, they've also blocked off the historical snow reports to non members. Registered users can access last years snow depths.
My opinion on this. SCGB members pay for the reps, therefore they should get the information that they provide. (However, that doesn't take into account that most (if not all) resorts give them accomodation, lift pass etc for free.) I'm guessing that it is a subtle way of trying to persuade more people to join the club...which I guess just takes it further down the line of the ski club being another commercial operator in the ski world (this has been discussed elsewhere, so please...not here!!)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stuarth & Frosty the Snowman, the SCGB can of course do whatever they like with their own data but my concern is simply that something they previously chose to make widely available to the public has now been withdrawn. I just wondered what the reasoning was ? They did say the Forum was always intended to become MO after a trial open period. I don't recall seeing a similar statement about the reps reports and they are not (yet) listed as a member's benefit. Was this another decision made in haste ?
I'm just curious - not knocking the Club - which of course has the right to do whatever it wishes. But it has distributed its snow reports widely to the press and other web sites (presumably for a fee) and to see another reduction of the services available to registered site users slightly surprised me.
Thanks for that sad news about the Historical Reports, Elizabeth. Hadn't checked them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Perhaps it's time to stop looking at the SCGB as a club and realise that it's becoming a commercial entity. That's not a bad thing, it just needs to stop pretending that its primary function is not generating income. When we accept that the ‘club’ is a business first and foremost, a lot of the animosity will disappear. What’s p¡ssing a lot of people off is that the ‘club’ no longer seems to be a ‘club’.
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| Masque wrote: |
| Perhaps it's time to stop looking at the SCGB as a club and realise that it's becoming a commercial entity.. |
personally, that's always been my view point. I think my main gripe isn;t in how I view SCGB, it;s in the way they present themselves - they're stil ltyring to pretend they're a club.
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Masque, the SCGB is a not for profit org. with all profits going back into the club for benefit of the members. A commercial entity is run for profit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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i have to agree with Tim. a club's a club, however it chooses to conduct itself.
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I joined SCGB earlier this year and it never occured to me that it was a club in the real sense (I probably wouldn't have joined if it had). It is clearly a commercial operation, although one which is still controlled in theory at least by its members, providing services to its members. I cannot believe that many people join or remain members because of the camaraderie which memebership brings.
I can understand why reps reports and other info might be 'members only', but it seems a bit mean to take out of the public area something which was in it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| stuarth & Frosty the Snowman, the SCGB can of course do whatever they like with their own data but my concern is simply that something they previously chose to make widely available to the public has now been withdrawn. I just wondered what the reasoning was ? |
I can guess that, they're looking to sell the service to other people to be included on their sites or whatever, those commercial customers won't want to pay for something that's being given away free somewhere else. Picking up a few new members would only be a bonus.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond,
" It is clearly a commercial operation"
Where does the profit go then?
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I always use this site for historical data as it gives much easier to read resort information and comparisons. I use method 2.
I have always been surprised at the amount of free information that SCGB give out on their website and am therefore really not surprised that they are withdrawing some. If ever you ring them, their first question was always "what is your membership number", and you wouldn't get further than the receptionist. I wouldn't be surprised if in the course of time more information disappeared from the public domain.
I don't think that we have any cause to complain though, as the information is generally available elsewhere. Also, I can't think of any other club where you can get free information.
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You know it makes sense.
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kuwait_ian, and Masque,
I guess my interpretation is a bit different. To ski at my local dry slope where I used to be a club member, you had to pay your £100 odd membership fee, for that I could ski whenever the slope was open. If non-members could also turn up and ski whenever they wanted, I'd be a little annoyed that I'd had to pay £100 for the same thing. The local ski club was (as far as I know and from the accounts I got sent) not a for-profit organisation but I still had to give them money (which I'm sure they used for good things like paying for the junior racers, maintaing the slope/skis/lifts, etc). However you are right in some ways and I don't really see the SCGB as a club in the same way as my local one (it's just it normally works out financially beneficial to be an SCGB member for some reason or other - no real attachment  )
I've no idea what the SCGB does with my membership and other cash they make because the accounts normally don't even find their way out of the envelope before hitting the bin (recycling of course!  ), so can't really comment on whether thay make a profit for someone. Not sure who or why they would, are there shareholders? - I certainly don't get a dividend! but thats a different topic....
I'll have to put my hand up and admit that in my ranting posts to the SCGB about why they shut the forum, I did question why they chose to shut the forum which would be more beneficial to everyone left open, but left the snow reports and resort info open to the public, where in my opinion they seemed to be premium services that should be a perk of membership.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stuarth wrote: |
| ...I've no idea what the SCGB does with my membership and other cash they make .... |
Why not have a look, staurth 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Where does the profit go then?
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If it is a members club then the profits are retained and spent by the club usually by elected officials. The club would be owned by the members, and they would benefit should it be sold
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, in other words, by definition, it is non commercial. Anyone who say differently is just plain wrong from what I can see.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Tim Brown, Not sure that's right, really. The club's elected officials decide how the club should operate (within club rules, as approved by members) - as is the case for most clubs. Like many (perhaps most) clubs, the SCGB is not a registered charity. I am puzzled by Masque apparently drawing a distinction bewtween a club and a commercial entity. One is not neccessarily different from the other.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 22-12-04 17:11; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| Anyone who say differently is just plain wrong from what I can see. |
oh no... not again... 
I'm off to the video shop to get out the entire works of Monty Python...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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First two definitions of "Commerce" from Merriam-Webster online dictionary:-
1 : social intercourse : interchange of ideas, opinions, or sentiments
2 : the exchange or buying and selling of commodities on a large scale involving transportation from place to place
If holiday packages and whatever other goods and services the Club provides in exchange for money are "commodities" then it sounds commercial to me  (I notice there's no mention of "profit" in those definitions)
The 3rd definition is "Sexual Intercourse" but I guess that is not an explicit part of the membership package?
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So, it is not profit-making in the same way that a farm is not profit-making, any money made is poured back into it, in the form of salaries, investments etc.
But then again, how many small businesses are "profit-making", I mean, when they make extra money, they pay staff more, or invest it in various things. They don't tend to leave it in the bank, they use it...
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Just stoppit, stoppit, stoppit, STOPPIT! It's Christmas.! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
just one question - I've just noticed, looking at your address, that you seem to live in your router. Is this true?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 22-12-04 17:42; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Brown, I agree to a certain degree, but a club is like a business in that it must progress. All sporting clubs are always looking to increase their income, the more money they raise the better the services they can provide to the membership and should also minimise any membership fee increases. Our Rugby Club (note "our" as its a members club) is always desperate to raise cash, as the running of "member services" takes a huge percentages of the revenue. Commercial success is vital to every club.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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maggi, Oh, all right 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nick Zotov, I see what you mean
anyone saying it's not a club because it has some commercial income is just plain wrong.
does that make sense?
Masque said "When we accept that the ‘club’ is a business first and foremost..." is that the way you feel about it. Is he right?
Wear The Fox Hat, I'm guessing you have never been in business.
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Tim Brown, I think maggi's right. Let's stop and have an oubreak of peace 
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You know it makes sense.
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Tim Brown,
<snip>
deleted for the good of snowhead peace and goodwill!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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stuarth, not much, mate, not much. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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stuarth, yes
Tim Brown, I've been in several businesses.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stuarth, my router doesn't look like that!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stuarth, no worries, mate. I'm not that precious.
Wear The Fox Hat, 'in' or 'run'?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
Just making use of my new found image adding power - sad eh!
(yes I am bored. Christmas shopping done. 14 days before slopes!...)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tim Brown, both.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OK, Stuart, a challenge: track down a picture of a D-Link 604+
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what, like this one
looks a little less cosy than the netgear one.
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That's the one!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wear The Fox Hat I dont think Nade would approve of the colour. I think this year should be brown and white.
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As far as clubbyness is concerned it definitely exists in the real world of skiing with SCGB where I've not come across anyone who wanted to waste time debating the politics of it.
As for commercialism the snow reports are a revenue stream foir the club. Thats no secret and obviously the reason that the papers get them is that they pay for them. Thats no secret either. And the money that the club gets goes back into the club to improve services and keep the membership cost down. Thats no secret either. Those that are members will probably have realised that the fees have not gone up for about 5 years.
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FAQ
