 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bones, check the small print, you are probably required to inform them of any existing conditions before you travel (eve if you have had the all clear). If you need to cancel your flights you need to have insurance that in place at the time of cancellation so whichever company you pick for your insurance will the ones covering. I fyou let the policy lapse then you won;t have any cover in place. In the old days, when we bought for single trips, the flights were covered by that one trip policy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bones, In my experience your knee counts as a pre-existing medical condition. You need to advise your current insurer before your next trip and your future insurer - depends on the insurer, when you had surgery and when you had the all clear. As you've booked a trip I'd discuss it with them now. They may or may not ask for a top-up to the premium. They might exclude your knee from skiing claims (unlikely). The point is, you've got to declare it otherwise, if you were to injure that same knee, you would not be covered for it. I think you are best advised to renew with the same insurer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Bones, In my experience your knee counts as a pre-existing medical condition. You need to advise your current insurer before your next trip and your future insurer - depends on the insurer, when you had surgery and when you had the all clear. As you've booked a trip I'd discuss it with them now. They may or may not ask for a top-up to the premium. They might exclude your knee from skiing claims (unlikely). |
My current insurer is Snowcard. Annual Policy for 2 just under £200. Following the letter of their policy small print I recently advised them that I had a sore and swollen knee, and that my consultant had ordered an MRI Scan. Their immediate response was to withdraw cover, without even enquiring as to which knee. Bear in mind that is withdrawal of cover from ALL activity for the "condition and conditions relating to" . Bit of a joke when no "condition had been or has been identified. Apparently I have to advise them when I have the results and they'll re-consider. They did ask me quite a few questions about the date I first had a consultation, and when particular dates of travel were booked. I was going anyway, irrespective of their teeth sucking. Their small print tied them to covering me for a recent trip, but they withdrew cover for any future trips.
My Scan showed nothing wrong, the consultant could find no underlying cause, now I'm waiting for the official written notification. I will be notifying the company, and they can do whatever they wish with the data.
Umbrella Salesman the lot of them 
I'm struggling to see any point in bothering to insure pre-existing conditions ATM
Or bothering to buy expensive insurance policies for that matter
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowbunny, interesting to contrast my experience with Dogtag. I applied for a policy about 6 months after a reconstruction of my ACL. Was planning a ski mountaineering trip and a trip to Whistler in the coming few weeks. Disclosed the issue and they insured me no problem with no additional premium. I thought I would have problems because both these trips were a little earlier in my re-hab process than most doctors would recommend!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I didn't disclose post menisectomy and was skiing 4 months later. My view was that my knee was stronger than before without a flap of cartilage flopping round in it. Insurance agents you get through to on the phone are however in general call centre monkeys not trained medical professionals so getting a sensible discussion with them is difficult.
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Interesting. Our insurance is just over £100 (Axiom) for 2 of us - annual policy. My mother struggles getting insurance because a)she's over 70 b) had a mastectomy and has a pacemaker. I found her a good deal with Marks and Spencer online. I thought I might check out our insurance with them when it's next up for renewal.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
That was a bit knee-jerk of them |
I predict a knee-jerk response by yours truly, early on in the winter season 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bones, it is an ongoing requirement with most (all to my knowledge but hedgeing my bets lol) to disclose all fact material to the risk, as you are not the underwriter it is not up to you to decide if the info on your knee is material or not therefore you should disclose it. Failure to disclose a material fact could invalidate your policy or cause a claim to be turned down in part or in full. Its worth bearing in mind that your insurers should they discover a non disclosure can turn a claim down even if the subject matter is nothing to do with the claim itself . . . . and they can keep your premium too!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Arno wrote: |
| snowbunny, interesting to contrast my experience with Dogtag. I applied for a policy about 6 months after a reconstruction of my ACL. Was planning a ski mountaineering trip and a trip to Whistler in the coming few weeks. Disclosed the issue and they insured me no problem with no additional premium. I thought I would have problems because both these trips were a little earlier in my re-hab process than most doctors would recommend! |
We changed our Family annual policy to Dogtag following their excellent feedback on here. So far they have been really easy to deal with 
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boredsurfin, Just looked at their range. It's a bit odd that they consider ski touring "extreme", but hey-ho. There is only 17 days ski cover on the standard policy too  Off-piste is covered within resort boundaries, IOW they want you on a piste, groomed or not. There appears to be no cover for skis left outside restaurants unattended, locked or otherwise. Perhaps you are expected to take them in with you? If you have a load bay cover which runs the entire length of the back of your estate/4x4 whatever, then your belongings are insured on your drive to resort. Personally, my load bay cover attaches to the back of the rear seats, which would be a no then. I got the feeling that it would be a good policy if you were on a tour Op package, less so for independent skiers, pricey too, for the amount of restrictions.
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You know it makes sense.
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snowbunny, Their cover suits us very well and none of the items you mention in your post affect us esp. as this year I only have 27 ski days arranged so I took the Family annual sports+ and 31 day ski option from the menu.
Dogtags off piste definition (in their faq section http://www.dogtag.co.uk/faq) is the clearest of all the insurer's I checked and covers a lot more than you have insinuated above. I do tend to over insure using the best available each time.
Until snowHeads ski insurance is launched I doubt your specific needs would be satisfied by any current providers out there.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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boredsurfin, Glad it's good for you. Yes, I'm sure they do lots of other stuff in their Faq section, I'm only really interested in the stuff that relates to me. The OP cover is for itineraries and in bounds. It's good that they have clarified it, but I remain bemused that activity in this photo qualifies as "extreme" skiing with their underwriters.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think they cover cross country skiers as well.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Anyone know what "Bigfoot Skiing" is?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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boredsurfin, 
snowbunny, imagine the same scene without the grooming, well away from the ski area and in a white-out. Ski Touring can be extreme. That pic is of a new sport called Walking Slowly Back Up To Retreive Your Sunglasses.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowbunny, bones
I actually switched to Snowcard because they would insure me with pre-existing medical conditions.
Most of the usual holiday insurers either refused to insure me at all, or refused cover for anything arising out of the conditions. Snowcard asked for details to pass to their medical advisers and have given me full cover, so long as my conditions were stable or controlled by medication.
It hasn't been worth my while going for annual insurance with them, but the mere mention of that did produce some teeth-sucking. However, as my medical history is more 'interesting' than I would like, I suppose that is understandable - they have to make a living.
To answer Bones's original question, when deciding what to declare, you have to read the small print, some insurers just disallow claims for items related to the non-declaration, others treat it as 'bad faith' and disallow everything. Err on the side of disclosure if you don't want to find yourself uninsured, but how you get cover for something undiagnosed, or deteriorating, I don't know. 
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nordicfan, "but how you get cover for something undiagnosed, or deteriorating, I don't know." If its undiagnosed it shouldnt be excluded as technically its not a pre existing condition until you know about it ie you have treatment for it or it is diagnosed. . . we have a claim being repudiated at the moment for a professional sports player who has had a career ending injury which wouldnt have been career ending if not for a general deterioration already in the joint, insurers have repudiated and we are fighting them, imo they will lose but might take a while to sort out, however if it goes the other way a worrying precedent could be set . . .
Safest option is to always disclose details to your insurer, try to avaoid the call centres where there is generally no-one with real underwriting authority on site (the supervisers generally just have a more expoasive rating guide), query any restrictive terms they propose, sometimes these can be written out if more specific medical evidence can be provided or additional premium paid . . . always make sure you pay the correct rate for the risk you present anything else merely leads to rate increase for everyone.
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| snobunni wrote: |
| nordicfan, "but how you get cover for something undiagnosed, or deteriorating, I don't know." If its undiagnosed it shouldnt be excluded as technically its not a pre existing condition until you know about it ie you have treatment for it or it is diagnosed. . . |
Interesting, in view of what happened to me recently with Snowcard. I now have a diagnosis of sorts following an MRI scan. It was laid out in plain english for me by the consultant as "you're getting old". I have emailed the consultants' formal diagnosis letter to the insurer. It will be interesting to see if they exclude conditions directly related to the ageing process.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowbunny, age is always going to be a rating factor . . . although the new age descrimination debate is raising a few queries now . . . your circumstances though will potentially pose the insurers a few problems as the diagnosis is not very specific. The Financial Services Authority has requested that the insurance industry now considers whether or not a client is eleigable to claim agains the policy that have been provided with, this is as a result of the huge misselling of payment protection policies with credit cards and loans etc. Therefore in your circumstances the insurers will find it difficult to exclude your diagnosis imo as its too vague, to exclude all conditions directly relating to the ageing process would render the policy useless as where do they draw the line . . . ie did you break you leg as a result of an impact or beacuse the ageing process has weakend the bone so that it couldnt withstand that impact if you see wht i mean . . . therefore if they applied such an exclusion i feel it would fail the eligability test . . . its a tricky one . . . i'd be interested to see their response, and i may even be able to help you fight your corner if they come back with something impractical, pm me if you need any help dealing with them, i'm a veteran of the industry and work on the regulation/customer protection/ treating customers fairly side of things
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| snobunni wrote: |
| nordicfan, "but how you get cover for something undiagnosed, or deteriorating, I don't know." If its undiagnosed it shouldn't be excluded as technically its not a pre existing condition until you know about it ie you have treatment for it or it is diagnosed. . . |
I am getting a bit cofused by all these rabbits. 
Sorry - I wasn't clear enough - by undiagnosed, I didn't mean something of which one is unaware. I meant something which is producing symptoms, and for which one is undergoing tests etc.
As for your case, it does show up the sort of problems here. However, some insurers do have a reputation in the business for being obstructive and turning down claims as a matter of course. So it may be worth persisting.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snobunni, Thanks for your offer of assistance, I appreciate the thought. Just received a response from the company, who want a photocopy of the letter posted to them. I don't believe I'll be choosing Snowcard again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nordicfan, i would contest strongly an exclusion of an undiagnosed condition, however from an underwriting perspective i guess it would depend on how far down the road to diagnosis you are and what the symptoms are. Would be something that would need discussing in detail at the time with a reputable insurer.
I think its important to remember that insurance is essentially a contract, its not a tangible product like the skis you buy, and just look at how much effort we put into chosing our skis, we test them, we take advise from others, we selct the bidings that suit our needs, take them to have them tuned etc . . . An insurace policy is made up of 3 aspect, the SCHEDULE which details the item insured ie in this intance the person and the operative sections they have selected, the POLICY WORDING which is the basis of the contract and details the standard covers and definitions, and finally, and most importantly imo the ENDORSEMENTS, these are the bits that tweak the policy and make it specific to you and your needs. None of these can be looked at in isolation. For example i'm heading off to Chile and Argentina next week skiing for a couple of weeks, i have taken out a travel insurance policy with NFU Mutual simply because i used to be an agent for them so my husband knows individuals there so if anything happens to me whilst i'm away rather than speaking to strangers in a call centre he can speak to people he knows who will move heaven and earth to sort the claim, however their policy if i just bought it as it stood is woefully inadequate for what i'm going to be doing, so i have queried it, asked for the extra cover, explained what i'm doing in detail and the cover i want and they have written it all into the policy for me by endorsement, yes i've paid extra for this but i was possible. In insurance like with most things in life if you dont ask you dont get!
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Having a recent, colourful, medical history I was a bit worried about what the declarations would do to my insurance cover - and premiums!. Have just got a new policy, after researching every company mentioned in the other insurance thread (took an age). I'd booked three trips prior to taking out the insurance, and arranged trips for the daughter, was holding back while I got definite answers re: the knee.
Found a decent looking policy that would suit our needs, but obviously I couldn't just tick all the boxes. Phoned them and went through everything in detail, my knee problem, wrist problem, previous bone breaks and found the only thing they wanted medical screening for was a pulled muscle in my back from two years ago, that was straightforward enough. I did ask them to repeat twice that all the previous injuries were covered and was assured they make no difference (it's the being discharged/resolved isn't it?!). Very relieved.
(well, we'll see how good they are if we ever have to claim, but if anyone who's superstitious could touch a bit of wood on my behalf, that'd be lovely  )
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You know it makes sense.
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kittya, Well dont keep us in suspense, who's it with Sounds good tbh.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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kittya, Thanks, might be worth having a look if my current insurer wont play ball
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wouldn't have thought that having keyhole surgery for a minor knee repair was a notifiable pre-exisiting condition. However, the safe thing to do is to contact the insurance company and talk to them.
BTW I have jsut renewed our ho;iday insurance using money supermarket as a search facility. £68 for a family of 4, annual multitrip in Europe including skiing (on and off piste) with Amex. Seems good value to me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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On a topic-stealing semi-related note, I've noticed that the company I usually take insurance out with specifically don't cover freestyle-related mishaps. Is this something i should be worried about if I'm spending a bit of time in the park, and if so are there are insurers people know about who would cover freeskiing?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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mark_s, Is the freestyle park part of the groomed piste? I think they usually are. Could be the basis for an arguement?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| halfhand wrote: |
I wouldn't have thought that having keyhole surgery for a minor knee repair was a notifiable pre-exisiting condition. However, the safe thing to do is to contact the insurance company and talk to them.
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I recently notified Snowcard that I had been referred for an MRI scan on my knee, as it was sore and fat. They withdrew cover at that point. The scan has now been done, I emailed them the consultants letter, which was a "do nothing" notice, and now they have reinstated cover.
I was pretty gobsmacked that following the policy notification procedure and telling a UK insurer that I had a sore knee would result in the withdrawal of cover for the joint in question. No leeway, no halfway house stuff, cover was withdrawn for the "condition, and related conditions". At that time, no condition had been identified, so it's pretty much a catch all statement on their part, and an insurer could claim that pretty well any body injury would be related.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowbunny, Wriggling bar stewards the lot of 'em 
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| ........I recently notified Snowcard that I had been referred for an MRI scan on my knee, as it was sore and fat. They withdrew cover at that point... |
So your knee looked so dodgy it was thought necessary to have an MRI - so insusrance cover withdrawn. Seems reasonable to me.
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| ...The scan has now been done, I emailed them the consultants letter, which was a "do nothing" notice, and now they have reinstated cover....... |
Looks like first-class service. I also have found snowcard good - and will be sticking with them.
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| achilles wrote: |
| snowbunny wrote: |
| ........I recently notified Snowcard that I had been referred for an MRI scan on my knee, as it was sore and fat. They withdrew cover at that point... |
So your knee looked so dodgy it was thought necessary to have an MRI - so insusrance cover withdrawn. Seems reasonable to me.
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No, that's your assumption. In fact the consultant (professor) prefers to have a non invasive picture of the inside of the knee to confirm his initial thoughts. The other option is invasive surgery in the form of an Arthroscopy.
Without separate private medical insurance to fund a scan straightaway, my knee would have remained uninsured for months, possibly years with Snowcard.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| ..........without separate private medical insurance to fund a scan straightaway, my knee would have remained uninsured for months, possibly years with Snowcard. |
Quite rightly, IMV.
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| achilles wrote: |
| snowbunny wrote: |
| ..........without separate private medical insurance to fund a scan straightaway, my knee would have remained uninsured for months, possibly years with Snowcard. |
Quite rightly, IMV. |
Fortunately, your view is irrelevant.
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FAQ
in the know.
I'd rather not launch myself into the wilderness without trying the stuff 1st, thanks!
