 Poster: A snowHead
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Big fat skis with huge side cut radii seem to be all the rage.. I bet they are great if you ski nothing but deep powder all the time.. or like to rip huge, fast GS off piste turns.
But if you take em on piste they turn like battleships, taking ages to get from edge to edge and struggle to make short radius turns.
Unless you ski em fast and hard off piste i recon most fatties are a waste of time for most skiers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, I have a pair of Völkl Mantras, which I guess rate as fat skis. I ski them on piste pretty much the same as a GS ski. OK the edges tend to lose it a bit on very hard pistes, the effect being that in fast turns you get a lot of edge chatter. Other than that I can ski them just like an ordinary ski.
Off piste they are pure fun  That's what it's all about isn't it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I haven't skied anything fatter than 92mm so perhaps not in a good position to comment, but for the snow that I'm likely to get (as a frequent, but not season-long skier in Europe) I don't think it is worth me getting anything wider than that.
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skimottaret, put telemark bindings on them and they'll cut in nice and tight . . . a very strange and curious experience but quite satisfying . . . I'm still getting my head around as to why this is the case.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Steilhang, I have a pair of Karmas which I think are narrower than the Mantras. Although I ski them on piste and have fun, they are not even close to the performance of a proper pair of slalom or GS skis, and I have no confidence that the Karmas will cope with high speed when I get close to my personal speed limits. The Karmas chatter, slip and twist if you push them into a fast GS turn/
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i'm calling troll on this one
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define "fat" first, ie what min width counts as fat...........
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| define "fat" first, ie what min width counts as fat........... |
I'm assuming these days that fat is 100mm+? My "fat" skis (92mm) would probably be called mid-fats?
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lets say over 90mm is a waste of time but anything over 100 is truly a waste of time in Europe...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I scrape under the bar then with 89cm Missions that are not a waste of time for me 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Steilhang, I have a pair of Karmas which I think are narrower than the Mantras. Although I ski them on piste and have fun, they are not even close to the performance of a proper pair of slalom or GS skis, and I have no confidence that the Karmas will cope with high speed when I get close to my personal speed limits. The Karmas chatter, slip and twist if you push them into a fast GS turn/ |
Well to be honest I use the pistes to get from one place of interest to another, so I'm not trying to use the ski as though I was in a race. But having said that, they are perfectly OK on piste under most conditions. I'm happy
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I scrape under the bar then with 89cm Missions that are not a waste of time for me
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Now that is impressively fat 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skimottaret wrote: |
Short skinny skis with tiny side cut radii seem to be all the rage.. I bet they are great if you ski nothing but gates all the time.. or like to noodle weeny, Ss on piste.
But if you take em off piste they turn when you don't want them to, assuming you can get the tips out of the snow and struggle to make anything but short radius turns.
Unless you ski on piste all the time i recKon most skinny skis are a waste of time for most skiers. |
fixed it for you 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arno, good one...
lets put it another way... if you ski 50 50 on and off piste (and i think that is a generous split unless you are touring) i am personally happier with a skinnier ski off piste than a fat ski on piste.
my 165 SL skis worked fine in some 50 cm powder this year off the sides and between pistes. mighta been more fun with really fat skis but i could turn just fine and it was a fun challenge. my karmas on piste just arent as fun to make up for the lack of fun on piste...
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skimottaret, The problem is all the torque transfer to the binding and knees.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Masque wrote: |
| skimottaret, put telemark bindings on them and they'll cut in nice and tight . . . a very strange and curious experience but quite satisfying . . . I'm still getting my head around as to why this is the case. |
Every tele turn basically creates a ski to ski sidecut because the back ski is stemmed away from the front. So even straights would whip round relatively easily in theory.
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skimottaret, I'm so with you on that...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Murdoch, Me too.
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skimottaret, Horses for courses..... just happy we don't have to use P9SLs off piste anymore. A good skier (like you) should be able to ski on anything, anywhere... so 165SLs work in soft snow just the same as Pocket Rockets work on ice (well maybe not). I have a pair of Apache Chiefs which I love in La Grave, but wouldn't choose to take them anywhere else. On the other hand I can remember my last pair of GS skis submarining in Tignes under wet snow and stopping - even though I was facing straight down the hill 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ski wrote: |
| On the other hand I can remember my last pair of GS skis submarining in Tignes under wet snow and stopping - even though I was facing straight down the hill |
Glad it doesn't just happen to me!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'll bet Mr Murdoch wouldn't have been jacking in his spring skiing days early if he'd had real skis under his feet rather than midget twiglets 
or maybe the nice bottle of wine on the terrace would still have been too tempting
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This debate happens every other month at epicski.com, and it often becomes generational, because the older guys realise that you can do absolutely anything on skinny, straight skis. And the younger guys think "but why should we bother?"
The facts are simple.
Fatter skis make it easier to float in deep snow.
Narrower skis make it easier to grip on hard snow.
It's pretty much a pure trade-off, although flex also plays a role.
After that, it's simply a question of what you're going to be doing, and what compromises you choose to make.
edit: Mounting points and taper angles can also make differences to flotation.
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You know it makes sense.
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Well having spent many years skiing off piste on P9/10/20/30 I finally tried out some fat skis. My conclusion: this is amazing fun! What am I skiing for? To have fun!
I agree that on those days when the off piste is not worth skiing I can have more fun with a pair of RCs but that isn't very often. So why bother?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Steilhang, Speed is your friend. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| skimottaret, The problem is all the torque transfer to the binding and knees. |
Tell us more......we need the little details 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| skimottaret, The problem is all the torque transfer to the binding and knees. |
Is that with fatter skis (I guess so)....and is there a solution (apart from use skinny skis...)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowbunny, kitenski, Right now the manufacturers are working on a wider device. When you try and edge a wide ski there is huge Horizonal Force to tip your knee and therefore ski over onto it's edge, the PX range from Look is the worst. Unfortunately the higher to are the better but then this has other ramifications
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It's also relative to skill levels - I bet Bode or Pajerson etc etc could slalom or GS better than all of us here on a reverse/reverse behemoth even if we were on FIS racestock (honorable exception for Mr Bell here).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| snowbunny, kitenski, Right now the manufacturers are working on a wider device. When you try and edge a wide ski there is huge Horizonal Force to tip your knee and therefore ski over onto it's edge, the PX range from Look is the worst. Unfortunately the higher to are the better but then this has other ramifications |
Please don't tell me that, I have Look PX12 Ti Lifter Wide 06/07 on my Missions
So is there anything that can be done now to mitigate any potential risks?
regards,
greg
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fatbob, you may have a point! there were a few moments when I was erring towards the wrong side of the compromise.
Funnily enough though, as a counterpoint, sis-in-law dragged out her old P10s for the GMs Ride day (retro gear de rigeur) and liked them so much she used them for the remains of the season. She's claims she's not going back to little skis. Mind you, she likes going fast in straight lines...
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I maintain all 92mm of my skis are essential! Any thinner and I would feel lost off piste in anything more than boot deep.
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Now you all know I have the solution to this problem as posted on the other thread - all you need is a sherpa or ski caddy person - someone who comes skiing with you and carries changes of skis like a golfer changes his club - when you've got to the powder and need the wide ones, or its got to that time of day above the Cairn gondola and the wide ones will come into their own on all the slush a quick change and off you go.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| snowbunny, kitenski, Right now the manufacturers are working on a wider device. When you try and edge a wide ski there is huge Horizonal Force to tip your knee and therefore ski over onto it's edge, the PX range from Look is the worst. Unfortunately the higher to are the better but then this has other ramifications |
Please don't tell me that, I have Look PX12 Ti Lifter Wide 06/07 on my Missions
So is there anything that can be done now to mitigate any potential risks?
regards,
greg |
Mission doesn't qualify as wide in this context I don't think. The Rossi/Look turntables are a popular binding on wide skis though due to reliability.
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