Cambered slopes - tackling them has dawned on me over the last few days

A snowHead

In light of my new found confidence I've recently I've been thinking about that rotten cambered slope that got the better of me in Switzerland this year. It's just occured to me that all it is, is a slope in a different direction - I can ski the cambered section, like a downhill section of slope, then pick up the main slope once its done, rather than wondering what to do with cambered section as I stand at the top looking down the whole lot at once.

That might sound daft, but at the moment it seems completely the way to deal with it.

A snowHead

Megamum, You think about these thngs too much, just ski slower and in control, then you will not notice little things like that.

Safe and in control beats any slope....... mostly.. Laughing

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Megamum, Which shape is the camber?

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Frosty the Snowman, I was confused also, whether it is actually cambered as in convex top piste, or double fall-line meaning slipping down sideways as well as off the front.

Neither of which matters as much as might appear, as JT points out: the body will generally be pulled in one direction only, attempting to compute which direction that is ahead of time is a bordering on overthink, and furthermore de-emphasises the ability to sense the pull and adapt the pull to where one wishes to go. Going slower and in control gives one time to do just that: sense the pull and adapt the pull to the goal spot. Simile: planning sail changes months in advance vs. being able to read the wind in time and adapt accordingly.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

comprex, Strangely, I feel far more comfortable skiing a bend with and advers camber ( a camber that would tip one's vehicl over if it were a road, ie skiing around a hump, rather than around a bowl)

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Frosty the Snowman, not strange at all:

It allows you to easily revert to static balance (no centrifugal force, upright if standing still) if you make an error in dynamic balance (body weight cantilevered by the centrifugal force).

A common error to make is COM too far inside (e.g. by dropping the inside shoulder, not enough pressure on the outside ski, or just plain assuming the turn force will be greater than it actually is and overpreparing for it).

In a bowl such errors would catapult you inwards and downslope.

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Megamum, well thought out plan. Yep, you can ski it as a normal slope that way. As comprex says, the goal is to eventually be able to ski the double falline too. A non intimidating way to practice it is to ski the bottom portion of the camber (double falline), right before it fades out. Do one turn at a time, then just keep turning till you go uphill and come to a stop. One turn at a time, is easier for the mind to handle. A less intimidating prospect. Practice your single turns each way,,, turning away from the fall-away,,, and turning into the fall-away. Skiing a fall-away slope is a series of both types, of after the other.

Another way to practice this is to ski a gentle slope that has no fall-away (double falline),,, but ski it on an angle. Make a series of turns, from one side of the slope to the other, at about a 45 degree to the falline. Stop, turn around, do it again the other direction. This perfectly replicates a double falline slope,,, and you can have one where ever you want. Practice where ever you like. The flatter the slope, the easier it is to do. Start very flat, then GRADUALLY work your way up to progressively steeper slopes. Terrain selection is important Keep the steepness steps small, and don't proceed till you feel very comfortable where you are. Also, you can change the degree of difficulty on the same slope by changing the angle you're skiing across the slope (angle to the falline). Play around with it. Before you know it you'll be looking for opportunities to play with double fallines.

If you have trouble visualizing what I'm saying here, find something you can tilt up on an angle to simulate a slope. A book or something. Now with your finger trace a series of turns on an angle, from the top left side of the book, to the bottom right side. Notice how your left turns (skiers left) start out steep and finish going more uphill, and your right turns start out going more uphill and finish steeper. The more you tilt the book, the more differentiation their is.

(make the turns 90 degree turns. Ask me if you don't know what I mean by that)

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I've probably got completely the wrong end of the stick, but if I want to go where I want to go on a double fall-line, I only ever turn in one direction and otherwise use the fall-line, so I go down then round then down then round, using judicious quantities of down & round for direction and round for speed control. Why would you want to do full turns to both left and right if you're trying to go in e.g. a mostly left direction?

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eng_ch, I've started a symmetry thread. Would you mind if I quote you there?

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eng_ch, I see where you're coming from. Depending on how much direction change each turn has, one turn is predominantly fighting the falline, and the next is using it. Yep, and there lies the challenge for those new to it. Two completely different sensations and techniques for each alternate turn. 90 turns would be linked half circles. This tactic provides more speed control, regardless of the direction (in relation to the falline) those linked turns take you. They also allow you to experience and practice the full cycle of each turn (with the falline, and against it) more than say 45 degree turns (linked 1/4 circles. Both good outcomes for someone in the raw learning process.

But what ever turn shape is chosen, if you don't make the same amount of direction change for your left and right turns, your overall line of travel will be an arc, not a straight line. Eventually that arc would take you uphill and bring you to a stop,,, or arc you though the existing falline and have you skiing against it in the opposite direction.

Megamum, this reminds me of the first ever blue I was taken on, which freaked me out. I'm sure if I went there now (Serbia) I'd wonder what the problem was but at the time it was way beyond me because it had steeper sections and the top part sloped away sideways as well as downwards. To add to the fear factor, it sloped downwards towards the side edge of the piste where there was a drop off into trees. I wasn't confident in turning or stopping and so skied very hesitantly in that direction, terrified of going straight over the edge, but that meant I had insufficient speed to make much progress back the other way Shocked

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In LDA last week the first slope I went on was Roche Mantel which also slopes upwards first at one side and then the other. When it was early the snow on the section at the higher edge was a bit hard and I was wary of being able to control my turns on it (I first said it was icy and was told it wasn't!) especially as I came out of the turn facing downhill across the slope. Easiski insisted I use the full slope and I wasn't allowed to turn before getting right onto the bit I was worried about, but with her reassurance I found I did have the skills I needed and she encouraged me to finish the turn, ie keep turning more, until I was happy with the speed, and then to adjust my direction to maintain the speed I wanted.

You know it makes sense.

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Cambered slopes - tackling them has dawned on me over the last few days

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