 Poster: A snowHead
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there's a bit of a discussion going on over on epicski because a guy wanted to know what ski companies manufacture in China as he wouldn't buy them if they are. Then someone said that this was unfair on China and that he should look at it the other way and buy American product so as at least he can say that he's supporting local economy in buying home made product.
I'm not sure where i stand on this. sure, you hear horror stories about child labour in China, but realistically, this could happen anywhere in 80% of the world.
So, would you NOT buy K2 (for example) just because they manufacture in China?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Why not, i ski in Avoriaz but live in Chamonix.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, and from what you have said in the past you have even been know to go through the tunnel to another country to ski or bike 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There are, to the best of my knowledge, not too many manufacturers in leafy Warwickshire, so stuff the ski miles, I'll buy 'em from wherever
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I try to spec my bikes with Brit Kit when I can, but I'm not too fussed where my snow kit comes from.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I wouldn't buy skis from K2 purely because they are made in China, i'd rather a dodgy French guy made my skis than someone from China throwing together a million pairs a day
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| Quote: |
i'd rather a dodgy French guy made my skis than someone from China throwing together a million pairs a day
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Reminds me of an old story, in the days of apartheid in South Africa, when many people boycotted S African fruit. An elderly lady, very well dressed, came into a greengrocers and asked whether those oranges were from S Africa. "Yes," said the greengrocer, "Then I'll not buy them" declared the old lady firmly. A number of young shoppers looked round, impressed, until she added "I can't bear the thought of those nasty black hands picking them".
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if someone convinces me that chinese production techniques are inferior to european ones (such as you'd notice it in skis) i might discriminate on that ground. deciding not to out of concerns about human rights is wrong-headed in my view. working conditions will get better as competition to attract workers increases among employers
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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manufacturing in China is on the up for the past several years. In recent years, more and more products, (skis included) have to adhere to various quality standards and regulations and the manufacturers' sites and factories have to implement and maintain quality systems, again adhering to international standards.
A significant example of this is that there has been a huge increase in recent years of major multinational (and usually US-based) medical device and healthcare manufacturers moving and opening factories in China, with output serving global markets - and apart from one or two lingering political sensitivities around "Made in China" (e.g. Taiwan), this practice has been very successful.
People tend to covet "hand made" but how many "hand made" skis have appeared and quickly disappeared due to quality and reliability issues - no consistent ski performance (down to not even both skis in a pair the same!) etc. There's certainly something to be said for mass production. I guess the Holy Grail for those who want it may be hand-made (or maybe "hand finished") with consistently high quality - there are a few companies out there doing this, but not many that are commercially thriving(??)
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I try to buy British - and local, if possible. I was surprised to hear that K2s are made in China. They are marketed as an American brand. That is a bit of a con.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I really wouldn't buy a British ski. Too many memories of the TR7
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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erica2004, you'd likely be very susrprised to learn how many established brands you thought were American (or other) are actually now produced in China
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I am hoping my favourite Swiis skis are indeed made in Switzerland as they claim to be.
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You know it makes sense.
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erica2004, you'd likely be very susrprised to learn how many established brands you thought were American (or other) are actually now produced in China
Edit - not sure how i double posted - sorry
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 3-06-08 21:12; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JT, Atomic? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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JT, Movements are genuine Swiss allright, "hand-finished" an' all apparently
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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barry, I thought he was a Stockli fan??
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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barry, comprex, Like them both...Movement have the edge atm...for a 90mm or so ski that I think I am looking for.
Not sure what is in Stockli's catologue in that respect... I also like the weight factor in some Movement skis..so they just shade it.
The resort shop I am using atm are predominately Movement although they did have some XXL's to play with... but they are around 80, IIRC.
I must bone up on their respective line-ups for this year. Aren't Stocklis. hand-made as well... ??
Mosha Marc, ha ha ha ...NO...!!! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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TT's, DP Pros and XXXL... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| erica2004 wrote: |
| I try to buy British - and local, if possible. I was surprised to hear that K2s are made in China. They are marketed as an American brand. That is a bit of a con. |
I'm sure the quality of K2 and Black Diamond (who make skis and boots in China) is fine and if I lived in China would consider them. But I live in France so buy as local as possible which means French, Swiss, German or Austrian gear. I can't see it being sustainable to ship products around the world.
For Americans... well China or Europe is much the same trip for them.
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pam w, nothing to do with the person constructing my ski-purely off face value-I would rather have someone making my ski in France than in China. Simple.
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| davidof wrote: |
| I can't see it being sustainable to ship products around the world. |
Environmentally, it is far more sustainable for me to buy French and Italian wine than wine from California or Oregon. Because ships have far less impact than trucks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Governments, not foreign companies, are primarily responsible for workers' conditions and rights.
Governments set and enforce the laws. They choose whether to be strict or loose.
Boycotting firms for perceived malpractice in developing countries is usually naive and misplaced.
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Communist China has a pretyy horrendous human rights and environmental record. Like all governments the Chinese tax profits from goods manufactured in their economic area, thus by buying skis (and anything else) produced in China you are in effect helping to prop up a communist dictatorship.....food for thought.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Does anyone know where Scott skis are made? And Volkl? Presumably Volkl are made in Germany? I thought Scott were American but I wonder now.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| Governments, not foreign companies, are primarily responsible for workers' conditions and rights. |
for big multinational companies entering China, that's not the case. It is the case though that these companies by and large will not exploit labour and the conditions will mostly be far better than perhaps the average - reputations to protect etc.
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VolklAttivaS5, just checked our Volkls out of interest - hubby's AC30's made in Germany, my Attivas don't say, and my youngest's brand new Salomon Fish Made in Ukraine!
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, what's wrong with a well sorted TR7?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lou, good idea. Just had a look at my Volkl Attiva S5's, they say Made in Germany-should be written underneath the word Sport in "Supersport". Phew.
My Scott Rosas-made in Austria. Am glad about that, you know what they say about stuff made in Germany/Austria-good robust stuff, even when people talk about washing machines-Miele spring to mind!
I did notice how heavy my Volkls were actually when I picked them up just now, haven't used them for a while and they are much heavier than the Scotts.
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Poster: A snowHead
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VolklAttivaS5, Apart from just a few models that are still made in Germany (& probably not for much longer) all Volkls are now made in China.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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VolklAttivaS5, lucky have a Bosch w/machine then
Mine aren't Supersports, they are RTs - they are ex-rentals and could never find out any more info on the model. Don't suppose it matters...
Had better go and clear all the skis off the bed, wish didn't have to wait so long to use them again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, sad ol' world. Same with so many products now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Darth Murdoch, was there one?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| barry wrote: |
| ........There's certainly something to be said for mass production........ |
You'd be surpised at how inconsistent skis are, even with high end makes/models. Anyone that has trimmed the sidewall & edge prepped new skis will soon see the extent of how the four edges on a pair of skis can differ. I'd be surpised if the large manufacturers even bother to flex/sidecut match their non race room skis.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lou,
| Quote: |
VolklAttivaS5, lucky have a Bosch w/machine then
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Yeah, and me! And a Bosch dishwasher and fridge freezer. I used to work in electrical years ago so I used to know what makes used to (seem) reliable based on the frequency of customers coming in to complain that their whatever make washing machine had gone wrong! No, it doesn't matter about you not knowing where your skis are from, if they're ex rentals though from some time ago then they were probably madein Germany as Spyderjon mentions.
Not too much longer to wait until ski time-only 6 months. It will fly by Lou, plus you will have Michelle's BBQ to reminisce!
spyderjon, yikes. I suppose that's the way most companies are going now. I'm glad I got mine when I did then.
Makes you think about the people in Germany or wherever who might be out of a job because the big companies can get the same work done for less elsewhere. That's a shame too.
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spyderjon, how do you mean they might not bother to match their flexes and sidecuts? You mean to say my skis might have one sidecut on one side which is slightly different to the other side? And that the other ski might be different again?
Is this noticeable if it was or not? I'm thinking probably not?
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spyderjon, what proportion of customers would actually ever notice though?? your average punter, who must be a pretty significant part of any companies business wouldn't have a clue. In which case, it aint necessarily a quality problem, especially if you never intend to have it "better" simply because your customer aint demanding it, which in my mind is a perfectly valid practice
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| barry wrote: |
| JT, Movements are genuine Swiss allright, "hand-finished" an' all apparently |
i thought they were made in Tunisia 
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| JimSearle wrote: |
| by buying skis (and anything else) produced in China you are in effect helping to prop up a communist dictatorship.....food for thought. |
It's pretty much impossible these days to avoid buying goods which aren't made in China: it's the factory of the world. Just check half a dozen items around you to see where they are made.
Even if the finished product says (for example) Made in Italy, then there is no guarantee where the components come from.
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