 Poster: A snowHead
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Assuming you need/want to book ages in advances - travel, accomodation, equipment hire and lessons ....
Do people feel it is generally cheaper, more expensive or the same to do it independently?
We did it independently this year to Arc 1950, but that was mainly so we could fly from London City airport. I got the impression that accomodation, equipment and lessons were all about the same price.
Biggest obvious downside for us this year seemed to be getting a transfer from/to Geneva - which cost us £800 for 12 in a mini-bus, but at least it was nice to avoid a coach.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For equipment hire, it is cheaper to book on internet in advance. We just achieved savings of about 40% on TO price or shop price. I used snowrental.com as seen on here somewhere.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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With snowrental.com, at Arc 1950:
Standard Skis (rouge) + boots - 80.30 Euros
I think we paid about 15 Euros extra from the shop direct (Concept / Danisports)
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I suppose it all depends on whether you are getting a good deal from the Tour Operator (Earlybird savers, etc). For example, our holiday in Selva in February this year was booked in April last year and we took advantage of early discounts; the price kept going up and up, meaning we got the holiday at the cheapest price.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think it depends on a number of things, including time of travel. In the days when we used TO packages we rarely booked equipment from them (did so in the case of a bargain basement trip to Valmeinier with Snowcoach, but the equipment was pretty basic). Didn't book lessons either, after our first trip - booked the likes of BASS, New Gen, separately as top quality tuition (unlike fancy accommodation) was a top priority. Transfer costs can be a problem - hiring a car is often cheaper, and driving from the UK, provided you have 4 people on board, is likely to be cheaper than flying on peak dates like New Year and half term, when flight (and package holiday) costs are just silly.
I don't see why anyone would need (as opposed to "want") to book ages in advance - and most French independent accommodation is not available ages in advance, anyway - for example, none of our local agencies will have lists and prices for accommodation for 2008/9 until around July. The last two package trips we did were last minute, very cheap, bookings and those are probably the cheapest of the lot, though obviously you have to be flexible about destination and accommodation.
Overall I don't think there's a lot to choose in cost terms because lift pass, equipment and (good quality) tuition are more expensive than accommodation unless you go to top-end places. But if you want to go somewhere a bit different from the bog standard resorts offered by the TOs there's a whole world of different, quiet, uncrowded places to choose from, throughout the Alps, where you don't feel like you at Benidorm on Snow and are less likely to be mowed down by out of control Brits skiers who think they're Herman Maier after four days in ski school.
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I book a package for the family week long trip, generally a yera in advance. Travelling with snowbizz it includes flights, transfers, kit hire, lessons, kids club, accomodation (so yes the kitchen sink is included) so all it costs me in resort is food and beer. I do this because I have to and because it means there is no uncertainty about availability etc. Uncertainty, children, and other families just don't mix on ski trips i've found.
My week end trips whether it be lads or couples are booked independently. Although independently is now limited to 2 items flights and accomodation. I always find accomodation that includes airport transfers. Admittedly my work load is doubled - 2 emails/phone calls compared to 1 - but I can take it!!
Essentially the less flexible I am over dates, times, location and the more people I want to slide with the earlier I need to book it.
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We used Snowbizz for the last three years and they are great, but we needed more than Puy St Vincent in the end. And if you want to go with them in school hols then you have to book 11 months in advance or you will probably miss out.
And like you say we have friends and family so if you don't book in advance you risk not getting somewhere suitable together.
As for TO's, before Snowbizz we had a horrible experience with Nielson which makes me wary of any large TO.
Which good TOs offer early discounts then - if the current strength of the Euro against the pound weakens then prices could come down anyway?
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My recent experience is, regettably, limited to school hols. In Europe, it's almost impossible not to beat TO prices (we usually choose places which have short or rail transfers, but even paying for a private GVA - Couchevel transfer, we saved) and apart from one heavily discounted trip 3 or 4 years ago, we haven't used a TO for Europe for about 20 years. In N.America, I haven't found it possible to beat TO prices. I suspect that things are different out of school hols, possibly even the other way round, especially with cheapo, cheapo last minute TO deals in Europe.
I much prefer not using TOs, as they seem in general not to be very competent.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 14-04-08 16:38; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In my experience (usually booking fairly late but not absolute last minute), it seems to work out fairly similar.
Last year I went to Zell am Ziller with Crystal, for a total cost (flights BRS-INN, transfers, ski carriage, half board Accom in 3*) of £374 early January. To get a similar hotel, Easyjet flights BRS-INN (including free ski carriage), and transfers by rail would have cost me about £360 at the time, probably a bit more now with the change in exchange rates.
I chose the TO in the end mainly because they included three days of guiding, which meant I would have other people to ski with at least some of the time (I was traveling by myself).
I also looked at prices for the Ski Welt, and again they came out pretty close overall.
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I agree with richmond, at school holiday time the tour oprerators make far more profit than at other times nad you are financially far better booking independantly. At other times tour operator prices can be pretty competetive and hard to beat though I prefer to DIY as I reckon I can get a better quality holiday for my money DIYing. Transfers can be pricey though on a DIY deal.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We have found that things are on the whole a lot cheaper if we put together DIY holidays, and we much prefer to holiday this way. We usually save between 30% and 50% on the brochure price. Main exception we have found to this rule is some of the very last minute TO deals, which can be very cheap, but often require more than a modicum of flexibility or compromise.
D
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My experience (based on organising trips for the last 5 years for between 8 and 15 people) is that there is not a massive price difference but it does take a long time researching and booking (and collecting in money!). I would not do it any other way for 1 very simple reason - TO's flaff around at the airport on arrival (sometimes even waiting for passengers of a later flight) drop people all round the resort on arrival and want to pick you up at the end of the holiday umpteen hours in advance of your flight. This year took 06.00 LGW-GVA Saturday, taxi to Tignes (2 of them, total cost €1,400 return), were skiing by 2pm that day (having hired gear), on second Saturday came off slopes at 4pm, pick up at 5pm, flight GVA-LGW 21.45. 7 1/2 days skiing, paid for 6 days ski hire (Ski Republic), 4 days off work (went Easter week) 
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| simonx wrote: |
Assuming you need/want to book ages in advances - travel, accomodation, equipment hire and lessons ....
Do people feel it is generally cheaper, more expensive or the same to do it independently?
We did it independently this year to Arc 1950, but that was mainly so we could fly from London City airport. I got the impression that accomodation, equipment and lessons were all about the same price.
Biggest obvious downside for us this year seemed to be getting a transfer from/to Geneva - which cost us £800 for 12 in a mini-bus, but at least it was nice to avoid a coach. |
wouldn't hiring a couple of people carriers have been a wee bit cheaper?
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, Unfortunately we have needed to book around xmas and new year this year and last due to daughers being at university and having placements which prevented us from having our family ski holiday any other time. Last year it was cheaper at new year to book with TA - this year the prices are extortionate! We come from Ireland and the same volume of flights etc are not availble to us as you mainlanders. The advantage in doing it independant is that you can go mid week and save on the flights and try and cajole some apartment owner into taking a midweek booking or Sunday to Sunday booking. We got flights wed to wed for £65 for this new year. Howeve this requires being on the computer until your eyes are glazed over and emailing as many different people as you can! But with 6 of a family its worth it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| The advantage in doing it independant is that you can go mid week and save on the flights and try and cajole some apartment owner into taking a midweek booking or Sunday to Sunday booking. |
Indeed, though there have been a number of threads about how difficult people have found it to book mid-week apartments. Easier outside peak periods, but still not easy. Maybe with more UK owners who rent out this could be easier - and there is at least one Snowhead apartment available for flexible periods. We have friends/neighbours here who rent Sunday/Sunday and will look at mid week bookings too - we booked two apartments for mid week periods last March, when we had far too many family members to fit into our apartment.
Outside peak periods it can be significantly cheaper to rent for two weeks and just use part of the time, rather than pay silly flight prices (in low season, a week in a 6 person (better with 4 to avoid sleeping on sofa bed in living room!) can be around £400. But not at New Year, of course.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Tirol wrote: |
| simonx wrote: |
Assuming you need/want to book ages in advances - travel, accomodation, equipment hire and lessons ....
Do people feel it is generally cheaper, more expensive or the same to do it independently?
We did it independently this year to Arc 1950, but that was mainly so we could fly from London City airport. I got the impression that accomodation, equipment and lessons were all about the same price.
Biggest obvious downside for us this year seemed to be getting a transfer from/to Geneva - which cost us £800 for 12 in a mini-bus, but at least it was nice to avoid a coach. |
wouldn't hiring a couple of people carriers have been a wee bit cheaper? |
Sorry I got my figures wrong - it was 600 Euros not £800. Hiring vehickles would've been about the same.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, I agree re flexible rental periods. We are happy to rent for any length of time, although try and avoid short break/long weekend type stays in February, but Dec, Jan, March & April are fine. We are lucky though that our agent is happy to turn the apartment around any day of the week. I think this can be a difficulty for some though, a lot of resorts have armies of Saturday workers to clean apartments, who do other jobs mid-week, which is why doing anything other than Sat-Sat can be a problem for some.
The difference between midweek and weekend flights though can be phenomenal. This is a great way to make savings on a DIY trip, although requires an extra day off work.
D
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have spent more when going Independently. The reason was because the flights and transfer at christmas were a lot more expensive and we stayed in better accomodation.
To the same resort at consecutive christmas.
2006 - Tour Operators £350 per person
2007 - Independently £630 per person
Much prefer independent with the flexibility and no need for a rep who has little knowledge and wishes to sell you extras.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nearly £300 is a lot to pay for the privilege of not having to say 'we don't want any thanks, go away'. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Christopher, I'm actually quite surprised at that. We have done one new year and one Christmas hol DIY, and always paid a lot less than the TOs could offer. In fact, on both occasions, there would have been no way we could have afforded to go at all if we had had to pay brochure prices.
Just goes to show, there is no one-rule-fits-all for this, it just depends entirely on when and where.
D
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Only ever used a tour operator once for skiing holiday and that was the first one ................ as someone mentioned above somwhere it depends on what you want, if you want to go where all the Brits / Irish go and to be ferried in and out of resort then book with a tour operator, if you want to use the power of the internet and get nice uncrowded resorts in the Alps, especially the Southern Alps then independent is the way to go, plenty of cheap flights if you don't mind driving - personally I prefer and do find it cheaper to go independent and touch wood we have always enjoyed where we go and what we get ............ plus we get to embarrass ourselves trying to talk French in the smaller resorts .............
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For our short trips/long weekends it is usually significantly cheaper than the TO short break prices... often being pretty darn close to full week prices... for a 4 day break with a min of four people going we can usually get flights, accomm and transfer for about £150... although we got a good deal in Saalbach last year which was HB for about £70pp 
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We have found it cheaper to travel independently when all 6 of us go. We can self drive and save significantly over the air-fare transfers etc. Also by avoiding sat-sat we can normally get cheaper deals on accommodation.
However for four or less, we fly, and then it seems cheapest and less hassle to take the small TO route. some of the bundled deals can be significantly cheaper than arranging your own flights/transfers/ hotels/lift passes etc. And often other services like guiding, or even lessons might be included.
I will always avoid anything from the TUI group though. as they have let us down badly (twice) in the past. In contrast Mark Warner were very good, as were Inghams.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lizzard, I was only stating that it was a reason why I prefer going indepedently. The main reason was so we had a more diverse choice of accomodation. We were able to find ski in/out self catering appartment. The tour ops didn't have any accomodation that fit that criteria.
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I don't see it a question of costing, it's more for convenience and timing to book independently. The other factor is that if it goes all pete tong then there is only yourself to blame. I do it independently summer and winter and nearly always hire a car to pick up from the airport giving total freedom when at the resort also. Although we did use a TO this Christmas and had to hang around the airport for 3 hours at Grenoble to wait for passengers arriving from Manchester.....further confirmation not to do this again!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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northantsred, thats another reason why you should go independent. You don't have to wait for ages at airports to wait for other flights.
This year using a family run business it was 2 hours to the resort. This included a shopping trip to the big Carrefour on the edge of Turin to stock up on food for our self catering appartment. You don't get that with Tour ops and as it was at night no shops were open in resort it was extremely convienent.
It was 3 hours 30 minutes with the tour op. Including a wait of 2 hours on a coach for flights from across the UK.
The journey should only take 1 hour 20.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If one goes as far as hiring a car or drives oneself then there is no comparison because one can ski as many different resorts or countries in the same trip, with one's own equipment.
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Christopher, isn't that what I just stated?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| You don't have to wait for ages at airports to wait for other flights. |
True, but you might have to fight your way in difficult conditions and learn to do snowchains. And if you miss your flight because the road conditions are so bad and your snowchain skills so poor (happened to friends who borrowed our apartment last year) you're on your own, and a night in a hotel near Geneva and a new flight next day (minimum flexibility on British Air!) is expensive.
If you're resourceful, and preferably speak some French, and regard being stuck in snowdrifts or faced with Geneva airport closed all day because of snow, as all part of the adventure, go independent. But for people taking their first ski holiday, or with a big family who take loads of luggage and can't fit in a normal size hired car, there are advantages to going with a TO. And I do like the catered chalet experience (at least, I've liked all the ones we did) and you can't get that independently. Or rather, you can, but at hideously high cost. If you go to a resort like Val D'Isere you can rent a chef for a week!
There are so many different formulae, and so many different people - just as well, too!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| And I do like the catered chalet experience (at least, I've liked all the ones we did) and you can't get that independently. Or rather, you can, but at hideously high cost. |
Yes you can - I often stay with an independently owned and run catered chalet - and get total flexibility on how long I stay (weekends, mid week as opposed to Sat-Sat) and it is certainly not expensive. To stay self catering would be no cheaper....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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With all this talk of airport transfers and hire cars, doesn't anyone consider using their own car? I'm planning to drive to Austria next Feb half-term using my (by then) 11 years old car. I'll be using the shuttle and having an overnight stop just over half-way down Germany.
Any comments?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Madbaz,
I think a lot of people do self drive, personally it's just too far for a weeks skiing though I have done it for two weeks, but from Scotland it takes a long time to drive to the alps.
PS There are threads on snowHeads suggesting that winter tyres may be compulsory in Austria, so you may have to take this into account.
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According to my sat-nav it's 820 miles from my home to the resort - 'shouldn't be a problem and I can't wait to try out the autobahns.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
PS There are threads on snowHeads suggesting that winter tyres may be compulsory in Austria, so you may have to take this into account.
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No, my friends tried it this year - you do need to carry snow chains, but you can hire them for around £25.
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Madbaz, You can buy them for that....
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We drove to Austria this year - first time, always having flown before. Our main reason was the cost of flying (four of us) half term week. We saved a fortune by driving and I actually preferred it (ok, so husband did all the driving, but he's happy to do it again!). We did both journeys over two days, staying in an Etap hotel, and got an extra day's skiing out of it.
As far as I'm aware, winter tyres aren't compulsory in Austria for ordinary cars - we had to buy snow chains (£200 as we've got an Audi that you can't fit normal chains on!). Didn't need to use them though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Guvnor, which chalet do you use? I'm always on the look out for good places for a week end
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ashton parker, PM sent....don't want to be accused of pimping 
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