 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, so Mr B has seen my rather wooden "constipated" skiing position, as he so delicately puts it, as have those who went to VT  . Bear in mind that dearly beloved has always said he won't ski. On discussing my skiing position, he promptly stands up, drops his knees and sways his hips/knees side to side, rolling his feet/ankles in a very convincing posture, saying "surely this is how you should be doing it?"  .
Then he gets me to stand up and proves that he can achieve a stunning amount of flex in his ankles, whereas mine's totally pathetic. I am pretty sure this is part of the reason I am not yet finding it possible to keep my body upright without my weight shifting too far back on my skis; I just don't feel balanced unless I am leaning my upper body forward  . The cause is I think partly due to my ankle injury as I can flex my right ankle further than the left, but it must be possible to work on it and improve things a lot.
Other than repeatedly practising trying to sink down, bending knees/ankles as far as I can, and trying to do hamstring stretches, is there anyhing else I can do to improve things? How long is it likely to be before I notice improvement? (I'm not that patient & want to see results by way of encouragement!)
I reckon I'll get him on a pair of skis yet, never mind the "it might put my back out" excuse! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Firstly, I have not seen you ski, but sometimes a lack of flexation can be compensated for by heel lifts in the boots, a chat with CEM or SZK might be the way forward, if the exercise does not produce the desired results. On another front perhaps Mr B needs to do some back exercise to make sure he does not put his back out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Butterfly, I also have an old ankle injury and have found it difficult to flex it as much as my uninjured ankle. I found that exercising was making it worse in some ways because I wasn't doing deep enough stretches to stop it tightening up afterwards. My solution was to go to a sports therapist who gave me some extremely deep and unpleasant massage and some stretching exercises specific to my problem. The massage was very painful but 4 - 5 sessions in the 8 weeks before skiing really did help. I could explain (in a PM) what exercises I was told to do but your situation will probably be different so a professional assessment is probably worth it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dypcdiver, I have been to CEM and have got heel lifts which have indeed helped a bit.
smwbounce, I was at the osteopath last autumn (for my back this time!) and she looked at my ankle and said there was no obvious reason why I couldn't improve the flex, but didn't offer specific advice on how to do so. I'd like to visit a professional sport therapist but can't afford to do so at the moment. If you've time to PM me your experiences I'd appreciate it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I too have limited - and slower - flex in one ankle, having ruptured my Achilles' tendon years ago. I used to blame my lavatorial position on this, but I'm nowhere near as bad as I used to be. The fact is, I can easily flex the boot as far as it will go. Poor technique and lack of confidence were really the issues. Of course, I still find myself in the back seat when under pressure, but it takes more to put me under pressure these days. I think the injury would prevent me from being a World Cup racer (assuming I was younger and any good), but for recreational skiing it was just an excuse at one time for me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Calf stretches can help with ankle flex - women do tend to have tighter calves than men, and when you bend ze knees, you're more likely to feel it in your calves than your hams. The best (i.e. most painful initially!) calf stretch I know is this:
Find a small step (kerb height is ideal, you might get odd looks though!). To stretch the right calf first (the choice is yours), stand on the step with your left foot fully on it - it provides your balance - but only the toes of your right foot. If there's a handrail, do make use of it for balance, but try not to put much of your weight on it. Let your right heel drop gently till you feel the pull in your calf muscle. DO NOT FORCE YOUR HEEL DOWN. This is a gradual process, and ruptured calf muscles hurt! As you feel the pull, make sure you keep breathing - in through the nose, out through the mouth. Hold for a designated length of time, release for a designated time and repeat. You are aiming for a minimum of 30 secs hold over time - I think it's better to do a lighter stretch for the full 30 secs initially than a more intensive stretch for 10 secs, as the longer you can hold a stretch the more your muscles will understand that you are trying to elongate them. 3 reps on each leg will be plenty, and once the muscles have begun to stretch, then you can push yourself a little further, but in millimetres of heel drop, not centimetres! Try it, let me know if something doesn't work for you - it's surprisingly difficult to describe!
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| Quote: |
trying to do hamstring stretches
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I don't think hamstring stretches will do much for your ankle flex. For that, you need to stretch the lower calf muscle (I can never remember which is the soleus and which is the gastrocnemius, but someone who knows will be along soon). For the ankles, you need to stretch with a flexed knee. ie, stretch your leg back a bit, foot fully on the floor, then bend that back knee as far as it will go, which probably won't be far. You'll feel the stretch right down around the ankle.
the stretch described above is also excellent, but for the other muscle I think.
I do both the calf stretches every time I use my electric toothbrush - twice a day - for 30 seconds on each of the 4 areas. It has helped a lot, costs nothing and doesn't waste any time! It has become such a reflex, when I clean my teeth, that if I am in a public place (e.g. communal block at a campsite or marina) I have to remind myself not to do it (because you look like a prat doing it....)
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vetski, thanks - that is something I can do at home as even tho we have a bungalow we have one indoor step. How frequently would you do this? Do you need to "warm-up" the muscles first?
I do have problems trying to achieve a proper hamstring stretch just by putting the one leg behind (am sure you know the posture I mean) as the ankle flex limit seems to kick in before I feel anything in the back of the leg. I can do so if I put a straight leg on a chair in front of me and bend down towards the toe, but am not sure if that's a good thing to do or not!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have restricted mobility in my right ankle (due to a disagreement with a Ford Escort when I was a kid) but this is extremely unlikely to have any significant effect on my flexibility or stance. If you can walk upstairs you have all the range of movement you need in ankles, knees and hips for recreational skiing.
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Sounds more like a lack of confidence to me. Do you feel tense and rigid when skiing or loose and relaxed? My wife has been learning to ski over the last few years and although she's very flexible, when she first started skiing she adopted a very wooden rigid stance. It's taken her a long time to develop a more relaxed posture. I think it's all too easy to look for bio-mechanical issues first.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, thanks for that encouragement. I think I have let my ankles both get a bit stiff following the injury, which was an argument with a hole in the ground that resulted in several fractures & dislocation repaired by 2 ops. I guess learning to persuade my body to do what it needs to ski fluidly is going to take a while, not being either young or naturally athletic, but I'll get there!
uktrailmonster], oh yes, tension is a biggie too with me, eg I know my downhill leg needs to relax/bend and not be a wooden post, but as soon as I feel under pressure it locks again! There is however a biomech issue, as this exploring of stance barefoot at home when totally relaxed has revealed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I found CEM's stretches for the soleus and gastrocnemius (lower and upper calf respectively, Pam) helped me enormously this year and I really noticed the pain when I forgot to do them. They're on his web site. I'm no instructor, but looking at the vid of you that was posted, it looked to me like you're *trying* to get down and my advice would be to stand up (I dare say easier said than done) - or stand tall. Just pushing your hips forward a bit can make a huge difference. AIUI an active stance on skis should be pretty similar to an active stance off skis and you wouldn't walk around your living room in the "constipated" position 
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Another point - tell yourself to "stand on the balls of your feet". A reminder I use when things are going pear-shaped. A tip which cost me an £80 private ski lesson ten years ago, but was well worth the money!
eng ch. thanks. I'll try to remember! The soleus is the important one here, I think.
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You know it makes sense.
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Butterfly,
Have sent pm (I hope) which describes the lower calve stretch suggested Vetski plus some others which worked for me. It may be a question of confidence / technique but if you have greater confidence in your flex and in your general leg strength it's easier for the technique to improve. Mind over matter sometimes works by improving the matter, IYSWIM 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| smwbounce wrote: |
| Mind over matter sometimes works by improving the matter |
I like that!
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Poster: A snowHead
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FWIW I find it much easier to ignore physical problems if I know what they are rather than just being told I'm making excuses  For instance, now I know that I have a neuroma, I don't stress when I have to stop for a moment because at least there's a reason for it and I'm not going to be told I'm just being a wuss. Knowing what's up actually makes it easier to ski through. Or maybe I'm just weird
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| [I do both the calf stretches every time I use my electric toothbrush - twice a day - for 30 seconds on each of the 4 areas. |
Cracking idea Pam, I too have tight calves from playing hockey on artificial surfaces. Do you have a block of wood in the bathroom, or what do you use for the one where you lower your heel?
regards,
Greg
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kitenski, stairs work well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stairs + toothpaste = not a very happy Mrs Kitenski
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kitenski, I just stick my foot really far back; seems to work. And doesn't get toothpaste all over the stairs. I do them on the stairs too sometimes (the exercises that is, not the teeth).
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