 Poster: A snowHead
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My son is booked for this.
He skis Scott Missions.
Suitable?
Or will BASI be looking for a true on piste carving ski?
Will BASI care?
Would a different ski make for a better BASI experience?
Over to you BASI folks for you input....
Thanks in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rungsp - I can't directly comment on Level 1 as I did my BASI quali last season and the foundation course was unassessed - and they've probably changed the syllabus.
But for Level 2 he will definitely have a better chance of passing if he's on more piste-oriented skis. They will want to see him carve really well and do good short turns. Both are easier on piste-oriented skis. (I know, I know, it's possible to do both on Missions, but why make it difficult for yourself).
I'd recommend something with a 14-16m turn radius that's not too hard as he'll need to do bumps and off-piste on them. Skis that pivot easily are a plus - I swapped from Aztec Pros to Dynastar Contact 10s and the difference it made to my bumps skiing was amazing. (I'm still rubbish, just not soooo rubbish!).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rungsp, same background as PhillipStanton, i am currently looking for skis for L3 ISIA and have short listed Head supershape magnums, Elan speedwave 14 and dynastar contact 11 ltd's and leaning towards heads.
14- 16 rad as phil says and a bit wider underfoot for off piste and bumps. I did my L1 and 2 on K2 recons and they were fine so would think missions would be fine if he can make short radius carved turns with them. lots did use slalom race skis but not so good for L2 and bumps....
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I did most of my L1 and L2 this season on a pair of Elan Magfire 12s. These are a 176cm ski with a 76mm waist and a 16m radius. I spent one day on a pair of FIS slalom skis (when it dumped with snow  ) and one day on a pair of Volkl Karmas (90mm waist) which were great when we did some off piste but were rubbish for high speed carving. I thought the Elans were a very good compromise ski for on and off-piste work, and I was much happier on those than the slalom or fat ski. The Elans were stiff enough to cope with the high speed stuff we did, compliant enough for the teaching demos and just about wide enough to help my mediocre off-piste technique. And they're a lovely green colour.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rungsp wrote: |
Will BASI care?
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Missed that question: no I don't think the Trainer will care although that might well vary from person to person. One of the guys on my L1 course skied the week on some enormously fat Rossi things. He struggled a bit with his teaching demos and with some of his on-piste performance partly because of this. The Trainer for the week wasn't too concerned about his choice of skis but did advise him for the L2 course it would be better to find something with was more piste oriented than the 100+ underfoot he was on for the L1. I suspect the Missions will be fine if your son is happy with high speed, long radius turns on them as well as plough parallels and basic ploughs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I do know of a trainer who will not pass anyone skiing twintips. I think the Missions are fine for L1, but go for a more piste orientated ski for L2.
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Regardless of what the BASI will require, you can pick up a lot of personal technique in such courses, and I think a full on piste ski will help you doing that even more...
(There is a major difference between "does fine on piste" and "Works marvelous", only switching from Missions (i think) in an unofficial 3rth run to whatever 2008/09 atomic pisteski admin had pulled from Central gave mac46 a run within .1 second of my winning time in Wengen (respect for that bloke, twice my age!)
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Bear in mind that Tux can throw any sort of conditions at you in the summer, from Powder, ice, slush, all in the same day sometimes. So go Piste orientated, but don't go too specialised. As I've said the Missions will do fine for L1.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Doesn't matter what ski you use unless it hinders your ability to do anything on the syllabus. I used GS race skis for my Foundation as it was then known.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| but an automatic flunk sounds a bit harsh... |
For sure, especially when more than a few trainers ride twin-tips themselves. While 110's would be a bit much there are a lot of 80 - 90mm underfoot twin-tips that are good all rounders.
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david@mediacopy, skimottaret, That's what he told me. Whether he meant it absolutely is another question. He said they couldn't properly perform some of the tasks required using twin tip skis. He regularly asked candidates to think again about their ski choice.
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You know it makes sense.
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Friend of mine did his APC on twin tips and nailed it. However, he's a seriously good ex National team member (slalom and GS) who's turned to freestyle. Now doing his ISTD tech and i've no doubt he'll pass.
If you're that good you can't be failed because of the skis you're using.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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beanie1, I agree, but why make things difficult. If the particular trainer has an aversion with twin tips, if you're only scraping the pass level, which way will he go? Will he think I wonder if he wasn't on twin tips could he do what I've asked him to do, or will he just fail him?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Spyderman, assuming this guy was being serious, it doesn't seem right that he should take this sort of prejudice with him when passing or failing people. as david@mediacopy says, plenty of top level instructors/trainers teach on twintips themselves and hasn't some element of freestyle been introduced to the syllabus?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| , He said they couldn't properly perform some of the tasks required using twin tip skis. |
Thats interesting - I wonder what the tasks were ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arno, Is it a prejudice or just not giving someone the benefit of the doubt because they can't for instance do linked short radius turns well on their twin tips, or perhaps they're not coping with an icy piste very well. Their is a freestyle element in the syllabus, but as skimottaret, says why hinder your performance by using a one trick pony to do a course.
Would you do a speed test on twin tips? I'm sure if you were a WC racer, you'd probably manage it.
I'm just quoting what he said, whether he meant it literally and has real prejudices, maybe he just considers twin tips to be not the best ski to use, I don't know. I think the later though.
I do use twin tips to teach on plastic, as I find them easier skiing backwards and less likely to catch in the matting, plus they were seriously cheap. 
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Spyderman, no problem with failing someone who can't display a proper carved turn etc it was just the implication that you get failed for turning up with twintips which seemed odd - after all it's not like it is impossible to do the skills required at L2 on them (when i was going for my BASI3 back in the day I think at least 3 people passed on 1080s)
my feeling is choose skis that will help your weaknesses. there are steeps and variable snow elements to the L2 course so if you're great on piste but a bit rubbish at these elements, you might want something which gives you more of a help with them
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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quote]
I do know of a trainer who will not pass anyone skiing twintips. I think the Missions are fine for L1, but go for a more piste orientated ski for L2.
[/quote]
Quite right as well...I think this should be extended to include failing for :
1. Baggy pants
2. Showing ones knickers as your trousers are falling down - only boys fail for this
3. Use of the word "Stoked" or "Rad" in any circumstance
4. Wearing a stupid hat
5. Any sort of goatee - this is a immediate fail for a woman
6. Shaving a line out of your eyebrow to indicate a fake scar
7. Stepping on the cracks in the pavement..
8. Having a Burberry cap
9. Wearing a sovereign ring of any size
10. Being American/English/French/Canadian...this depends on your in built prejudice. If you don't have any you're a liar
11. Being a liar
Now what was the original question?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think I'll send him off with the Missions and a pair of Volkl 724 EXS.
I know the Volkl's are 4 or 5 years old (FAIL ...IMMEDIATE FAIL...) but they are more pistey if required.
And I think anyone who turns up with any prejudices at all should be instantly failed.
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cfc5mu0,
what's wrong with women with beards?
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Spyderman,
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what's wrong with women with beards?
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Whatever floats your boat 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rungsp, Get him down the dryslope practising those snow plough demos Plough swing a good one to play with
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What's a "plough swing" ?
He has done some shadowing of kiddies lessons already on snow...in fact at 1/2 term the ski school just gave him his own pupils for a few days.
If you are thinking they got free labour, you are right.
If you are thinking that the kiddies (ie parents) paid for a qualified instructor but got an unqualified, you are right.
But if you are thinking the kiddies got a bad deal...you might be wrong.
His kids loved it/him and progressed beyond expectations.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rungsp wrote: |
What's a "plough swing" ?
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Sounds like a literal translation from german word "Pflugswingen"
It means linked snowplow turns.
The swiss snowsports dictionary translates it to something rediculous sounding: "Wedge christie"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is that the same as the stem christie turn? If I'm not mistaken, parallel ski across the piste and open the snow plough in preparation to turn, closing it upon completion of turn?
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rungsp,
| Quote: |
| What's a "plough swing" ? |
A Snowplough Turn.
Chasseur,
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| Is that the same as the stem christie turn? If I'm not mistaken, parallel ski across the piste and open the snow plough in preparation to turn, closing it upon completion of turn? |
That's a Plough-Parallel or Basic Swing Turn.
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You know it makes sense.
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plough parallel, basic swing and stem christie are three different types of turn...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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beanie1, agreed,
Spyderman, see glossary and amend definitions if they are not correct
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, Plough Parallel is the modern refinement of the 'Stem Christie' whereby the pivot point is under the foot rather than at the tip, without the traverse between each turn, but to all intents and purposes would look the same to an untrained observer. IMHO 'Plough-Parallel' is the BASI term for what SSE call a 'Basic Swing' and is the same thing, but of course you know all of that. 'Basic Swing' isn't in your 'Glossary' BTW.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, I dont really have a good understanding of what a basic swing is "meant" to be please have a go at a definition for basic swing i really struggled with getting a form of words for the various plough turns. COuld just be a see Plough parallel note 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, I'll have a go at a re-write for you, but it's enough to say 'Basic Swing' see 'Plough-Parallel'
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, I'll have a go. This description is just of shape of skis, forget about everything else for the time being. Skis parallel in traverse, to commence new turn to the right pivot new outside ski under the foot to form plough shape. Then pivot new inside ski under the foot to bring it parallel with the new outside ski. Repeat to the left.
Can beginners do this? No chance - it takes trainee instructors a while to get the hang of it! Hence why BASI got rid of it and came up with what actually happens in practice - plough parallel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, i will update accordingly, not cracking wise but i get confused on all the slight variations. If you look at any PSIA stuff they use wedge , step turns and stem christies alot let alone the scottish with "basic swing"
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not qualified to comment on BASI requirements - but although a keen Mission skier, I do agree that carving really well and and good short turns are easier (and if I am honest, more fun) on piste-oriented skis.
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