 Poster: A snowHead
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In the last four seasons I have skied twice in St Anton and twice in Aspen. Bearing in mind the slightly higher cost of a pass in Aspen (comparing value seaon Aspen to low season StA this year) why is it that in a generally higher and colder situation in Aspen, they have no heated seats or 'bubbles' and generally the lifts are of significant vintage? There are still non-detachables there, for instance, High Alpine at Snowmass. Froze on there back in Feruary! Compare that to the recent Arlenmahder and Valfagehr upgrades.
Perhaps us Euros are getting soft?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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elj221c, has the gondola on Ajax gone then? Yep - we are... and some European resorts are so jammed to capacity that the high capacity uplift they have put in means you almost have to queue to go down the piste.
Interesting question though. I do think heating chairlift seats (unless 100% solar powered) is a step too far.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Stoatsbrother,
No, the Ajax gondola is still there and has new cabins. A nice newish gondola, Elk Camp, at Snowmass as well. By 'bubbles' I mean the plastic head to seat covers on detacheable chairs that are partly integrated with the safety bar and footrest in the sense that you choose to employ them in bad weather but they go up when you push the safety bar up at the end of the trip. I first came accross them in Ishgl in the early nineties.
Yes, perhaps heated seats are rather OTT but the bubble cover is very nice when you are in an exposed position. You just freeze from the knees down. 
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| elj221c wrote: |
| By 'bubbles' I mean the plastic head to seat covers on detacheable chairs that are partly integrated with the safety bar and footrest in the sense that you choose to employ them in bad weather but they go up when you push the safety bar up at the end of the trip. I first came accross them in Ishgl in the early nineties. |
Got them in Saalbach too, maybe they are an Austrian thing? Didn't see any in Avoriaz this year, and there the "Bubbles" are cable cars...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They have the covered chairs in Wengen, but not in Serre Chevalier.
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also covered chair in meribel now - tougnette 2 - since last year they replaced the second stage of the gondola with the covered chair - it's fab! Much prefer sitting on chairs to taking skis off and sitting in a cramped gondola, but it is nice to be able to pull the cover down in bad weather  and certainly seems to have made it much quicker and easier to get up the 2nd stage from the middle.
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There's a covered chair in Les Arcs too, but I can't remember which one it is. It's on the way down to 1950 - might be Arcabulle.
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mark_s, It is indeed Arcabulle.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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they have at least one of those cover things in Tignes. Round here, we're grateful for a chair rather than a button-lift, and very grateful for a detachable chair. However, you practically never have to queue. Today we were sometimes the only people on a whole, quite long, chair in Notre Dame de Bellecombe. And almost the only people on a choice of 4 long and quite steep red pistes back to the bottom of it. Lift pass cost? Under 300 euros for the season.
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Seen covered chairs in Wengen, Lech and Zell am Ziller. Very handy when the chair crosses over a ravine with a hooley blowing through it in -15C temperatures. One in Zell am Ziller was entirely in the cloud for the entire ride, and it was dumping at the time, so it was a bit of guesswork being ready for the end.
Don't recall seeing any in Les Gets (or in fact anywhere in PdS), despite a number of new lifts in recent years. Do have flip up seats though afaik, but they don't flip them up, which was a contributing factor to a fellow chalet resident falling off the chavannes chair into that huge heap of snow just beyond where the chair reattaches to the cable  (no injuries, just him and the lifty and me wondering how he got there!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You're unlikely to find many bubble chairs in North America for a very good reason - wind! When the snow starts coming down and the wind picks up - it's regarded as a bonus, a powder day providing fresh tracks every run, whereas in the Alps the majority run for cover.
Bubbles are light while greatly increasing surface area of lift carriers, they are thus completely counter productive by greatly reducing the wind stability of the lift. Putting bubbles on a lift means your unlikely to be able to run it in conditions that actually justify the bubble.
The reduction in cross wind operating speed can be as much as 20mph for lifts fitted with bubbles. May I suggest that for those who are looking for heated seats that maybe snowsports aren't for you?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well when we were being rained on heavily in Kitzbuhel earlier this year, we were very very thankful for a bubble covered chairlift. Bad enough skiing in the rain but to sit there with the rain beating down on your not very waterproof ski pants is not very pleasant..... 
They seem to be fairly common in Austria
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elj221c, Have you taken into account the excellent and free bus service provided between all town areas and the mountains, as well as the free coffee, cookies, hot cider, suncream, water, tissues, mountain guiding etc. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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cathy, Rain, luckily, is not included in the lift pass price of most North American resorts other than Whistler...
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Poster: A snowHead
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They are common in Austria, and some of them evne really do have heated seats - e.g. the 8 man chair in Keltenbach (Zillertal).
I first came across covered chairs in Schladming in January 1999.
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Bubbles are light while greatly increasing surface area of lift carriers, they are thus completely counter productive by greatly reducing the wind stability of the lift. Putting bubbles on a lift means your unlikely to be able to run it in conditions that actually justify the bubble.
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Not my experience, although it may well be different in Scotland. I have skied quite a few times in conditions where it vwas really very much more pleasant to close the bubble, and they were definitely still running.
I agree about the heated chairs though. I've only used the one in Kaltenbach, and while it was qute nice, it really wasn't necessary.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I recall Stratton (Vermont) used to have covered chairs (don't know if it's still there any more). And yes, it's nice when it's -20C with 25mph wind. But as others pointed out, the bubble makes it more supcetable to wind and had to be shut down in really windy days.
Having skied in the giant freezer call the midwest (and/or New Englad), I've never found the cold an issue in Colorado. Granted, as a northeast skier, I have accumulated a large collection of very warm clothing...as the saying goes: "there's no such thing as too cold weather, there's only inappropriate clothing!"
Perhaps the Europeans are not so much softer, but just not having the right clothing?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They have covered chairs in Madonna too. Possibly one of the gayest things I've seen while skiing. I like sitting on open chairs and experiencing mountain conditions, good or bad. It's all part of the attraction. Heated, covered chairs are not for me. I don't like gondolas much either for the same reasons. I even like the old non-detachable chairs, they're much more fun to board when running at full speed
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Where they have covered chairs in the US they are often colloquially referred to as "hot-boxes" or "ganjolas" May not be quite in fitting with Aspen's tourist immage.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bones, yes I did kind of factor in the free bus and definitly the hot cider.  There are free buses in Europe as well, though. Actually, that is also a contentious point. In Aspen one expected to put your skis on the outside. They get filthy and MissELJ doesn't like getting her kit grubby! Coming back from Snowmass this year we tended to wait until all the racks were full then took our skis onto the bus. Some thought we wre a bit odd! ? ? !
That said, the side racks are better for getting your skis off. I have bad memories of travelling back from the Kitzstein glacier to Kaprun, trying to get the planks out from under those going on to Zell from the rear ski racks.
ABC, correct about the clothing. I don't have long sleaved base layer kit and I suffered in Aspen this year because of it. It will be my next ski kit purchase.
As I said above, I do consider heated seats as OTT as well, but the bubble is good. If it's that windy they can't run then I'm not sure I would want to be on the mountain in any case.
I suppose that at the end of the day it would be nice to have both the protection on the lift and the mountain 'service' wherever we go.
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| Quote: |
In Aspen one expected to put your skis on the outside. They get filthy and MissELJ doesn't like getting her kit grubby! Coming back from Snowmass this year we tended to wait until all the racks were full then took our skis onto the bus. Some thought we wre a bit odd! ? ? !
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It's not unusual to bring one's ski into the bus. You don't even have to wait till the rack is full. Most people, on the other hand, prefer to leave the ski outside on the rack so they can be more comfortable, since the bus ride can be quite long. They key is watch where the wheels are and not put the ski right behind the wheels. That's where the dirtiest it will be.
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I don't have long sleaved base layer kit and I suffered in Aspen this year because of it.
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Truth be told, a lot of my ski clothing were bought on the spot at resorts during my ski trips. When the weather turned nasty was usually when I realized I didn't have the proper clothing.
Once bought, clothings will last quite a few years. And having the proper clothing does expand my "comfort zone" in the type of weather I can ENJOY being out.
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I suspect it's mostly climatic. I've hardly ever endured weather conditions in North America that would make me want to use a covered lift, but I've had those conditions at least once on every trip that I've mde to the Alps. As Cathy says, rain makes for the most miserable lift-riding conditions of all but I've been fortunate enough to never see rain anywhere in the rockies, even at resort level.
Vertical drop is probably another factor: North American resorts don't have much of one, so you can wear gear that suits the whole mountain. In some european resorts you boil at the bottom and freeze at the top.
A third factor is fashion: I noticed a huge difference this year between Alpine and North American fashions. No-one wears sunglasses or headbands in mid-winter in North America; they wear helmets, goggles and neck-gaitors. When you have proper gear, you don't need namby-pamby creature comforts like heated seats.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| .........rain makes for the most miserable lift-riding conditions of all but I've been fortunate enough to never see rain anywhere in the rockies, even at resort level......... |
Then you have been lucky. It rained when I went to Fernie (a few years back) and I gather that is not unusual at Fernie or Whistler.
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| No-one wears sunglasses or headbands in mid-winter in North America; they wear helmets, goggles and neck-gaitors. When you have proper gear, you don't need namby-pamby creature comforts like heated seats. |
At St Anton I wore goggles, helmet, and my jacket drawn up close under my chin. I was very grateful for the clear shield to protect chair riders from snow driven by high winds.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| achilles wrote: |
Then you have been lucky. It rained when I went to Fernie (a few years back) and I gather that is not unusual at Fernie or Whistler.
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Yes, I've been lucky. I'm also reasonably well researched - I've always avoided Fernie and Whistler despite their other well-publicised attractions becaues I hate skiing in the rain.
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Lech rather spoils you. I get distinctly miffed on a cold day and I have to sit on a chair that isn't heated with a bubble.
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