 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stab, and giving them a taste for overpriced rip-off gear designed to last a season so that the company concerned can sell them more of the same next year is perfectly acceptable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stab, "spoon nose boards" call me a cynic but this seems like a battalion triple base rip-off!!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I disagree, I honestly think burton is doing more for boarding than any other company, if the prices have to be high to back up this r&d then so be it, I get 30% off 
The new kids snowboard boots have peel off inners so the boot can grow with the child's feet, wicked.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stab wrote: |
| I honestly think burton is doing more for boarding than any other company |
stab: I must start by saying that I know you are a better boarder than I'm ever likely to be, and I always read what you have to say with considerable interest. However, I urge you to reconsider this opinion of yours. Burton are not pushing the envelope, nor have they done for a long time. Their recent history (for quite a few years in fact) is light on innovation and heavy on marketing (albeit marketing which works). Chucking money around is not the same as doing something no-one else can do - and too many people have the impression that Burton is snowboarding in some way or other. This long (too long, probably!) diatribe is aimed at them, and not you.
Not counting the various ideas they have lifted straight from other companies and pros riding for non-Burton teams, the only meaningful in-house innovation out of Burton in the last decade which I'm aware of is the ICS/EST binding system. I admit I haven't ridden this, but I have yet to see a convincing reason why a single track is in any way superior. "Infinite stance adjustment" is another way of saying "you can't ever set up the same stance twice" (who cares either way, in the end, so long as it feels and rides right?)
The baseless version are a compromise at best, especially if you have larger feet, and were tried by various companies (including Burton) in the mid-90s. Also, it's hard to see how the track setup could be more solid than industry-standard T-bolts (another case where Burton followed instead of leading... nice license-requiring 3-hole baseplate though). In my opinion, ICS/EST wouldn't take off even if Burton open-sourced the idea.
Peel-off inners are cute, though, and it's a clever pitch to parents. I guess Burton do more for the kids market than a lot of companies do. Certainly that's how Shaun White started out on Burton, although a superstar sponsor's dream like him was always going to gravitate towards the company with the ability to put their money where his Mountain Dew is (no, I don't dislike Shaun White at all... he's incredible to watch and has appropriate respect for those who came before him, e.g. Terje).
Colour-changing graphics? Kinda cool I guess, but it probably won't change your life 
I guess what I'm getting at is this: with Burton's presumably galactic R&D budget, it's a surprise to me that they don't come up with more stuff on their own (other than a vice-like grip on patents for concepts which other people came up with). Sometimes, of course, they miss the boat on the patent... and if you can't beat 'em, talk down the significance of their invention.
So... I've covered original research to some degree, so now it's time to look at an area where Burton do lead the field: undeniably, they do a lot in terms of sponsorship and promoting the sport. I'm a capitalist - I don't resent them in the slightest for making money and bringing the sport to a much wider audience and greater prominence; in and of itself, this can only be a good thing. He's made the money, and that's because Jake Burton Carpenter has been around for a long time (but lest anyone think otherwise, he didn't invent snowboarding - not even close). If you are the Microsoft of the snowboarding world, more power to ya - you get to define in large part how the world sees your industry, for better or worse. However, it looks a little silly to those with a sense of history when the large corporation tries to rock the outlaw steez. As much as they may have been involved in persuading resorts to allow snowboarding 25 years ago (often smaller, more money-hungry slopes), Burton as a commercial entity is now far, far bigger than any one resort.
One might argue that I might not even be involved in the sport I love so much without Burton's popularising influence, but some other company would have come along to do something similar, so on that basis I doubt snowboarding would be unknown without the boy from Vermont. Instead, I would argue that the companies who do the most for snowboarding are those who are bringing the new. That might have been Burton back in the day - it might not - but it's certainly not the case in the 21st century...
Wow that's a long speech in response to an off-hand comment
PS Burton don't suck - I'm just trying to put them in context.
Let the flames commence...
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 9-04-08 18:28; edited 9 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Shallimus, bit bored at the moment ? 
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Of course. It's Mon-Fri 9-5 (but I've been in since much earlier, and will probably stay later - as usual - so my guilt is limited).
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Yep, heading for the 12-hour day... argh.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Shallimus, awesome post, when I feel better I'll reply properly.
I'm kind of with you on the ICS thing, the shop where I work won't order the ICS boards because they are so dependant on having ICS compatible bindings although I'm sure I saw adaptor plates in the catalogue somewhere.
And I have to admit I did ignore some things like "another world 1st" when other companies were doing it 2 years back, like removing a section from the tail and nose to reduce swing weight, my MFM had that 2 seasons back.
I had a look at that skate banana the other day, someone had one in for repair. Now that is a weird shape/edge system but if it works then it's all gravy, would like to try it out one day.
By next year I may be all about some other company, atomic are doing some interesting things as well. I used to be all about DC until I noticed how quickly their shoes fall apart since they became really popular.
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I must start by saying that I know you are a better boarder than I'm ever likely to be
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I wouldn't say that, in all honesty I'm nowhere near as good as I would like to be/near to what I call a good boarder, but also nowhere near as bad as I used to be
I still represented at the MSB race though, I was even too gangster for a race number Sadly Masque showed his true love that day with teh skis
And now I'm off to spank my monkey furiously over DC MTN Lab 1.5 again. 
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