 Poster: A snowHead
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Ok, so I had a google. I have found out:
You have different boots and bindings so your heel can lift - sounds like cross-country to me.
On the videos I saw that the skier's body posture seems to be that of genuflection.
What it didn't tell me is how it's done & why you'd want to do it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Butterfly, taught, legs, mobile knees, tight buns and über cool retro . . . what's not to like about it from either viewpoint?
edit:
Aren't improving physical skills, fitness and mind flexibility, life-goals in their own right?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Butterfly,
Traditional skiing style from Scandinavia (mosrtly) and pre-dates fixed bindings. Used when skis were a means of transport through snow up and down the hill amd perpetuated mostly by Scandi's these days although it has become very popular in the last few years.
You can equate it to cross-country but with a better downhill emphasis.
A good ski buddy of mine is a pretty good telemarker. It seems to need the ability to do a series of downhill lunges and the turns are typically wider, more GS like. A lot of alpine principles like edge sets, weighting etc seem to apply it is just that the body has to set itself up differently to apply them.
A good telemarker in full flow is a great sight to see. Often the first to poach tracks....for some strange reason..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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thefatcontroller, wise. Very wise. Run faster.
Butterfly, for fun! Other advantages - because of the free heel and the flexion of the boots, one does walk more or less normally...no need to pole on traverses. That is a HUGE plus! It also teaches a lot about weight distribution - I think it will make m a better alpine skier, but I really wanted to try it because it looks so graceful when done well. I've only done it once, at MSB - but there'll be a session on Sun at EoSB, so come and watch! And considering how easily one can lose one's balance, spending plenty of time bending the knee before the Lord can't be a bad thing! 
thefatcontroller, faster than that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nice stripy PJs!
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| Butterfly wrote: |
What it didn't tell me is how it's done & why you'd want to do it! |
A vast portion of the fun of alpine skiing is in the incredibly powerful dynamic balance achievable when riding the inside edge of the outer ski.
Now imagine riding one edge that's two skis long. That is telemark.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| comprex wrote: |
| Now imagine riding one edge that's two skis long. |
With a completely ****'d hinge in the middle of it
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| comprex wrote: |
Now imagine riding one edge that's two skis long. That is telemark. |
sounds like a long board to me
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rayscoops, ever seen the size of the truly long boards, reserved for Hawaiian royalty?
Oh and feel free to imagine my above post in a 'This is Sparta' voice.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for the info
| Masque wrote: |
Butterfly,
Aren't improving physical skills, fitness and mind flexibility, life-goals in their own right? |
Masque, indeed they are; I wasn't suggesting otherwise, I was simply curious!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
You have different boots and bindings so your heel can lift - sounds like cross-country to me.
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I always thought of telemark as x-c skiing in the mountains.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Masque wrote: |
| comprex wrote: |
| Now imagine riding one edge that's two skis long. |
With a completely ****'d hinge in the middle of it |
Now, that's no way to talk about yourself.
Butterfly, why would you want to alpine ski? Why would you like to ski backcountry? Why would you want to do gates? Why would you want to snow-blade? (Good question actually)... Because they're fun, a new challenge, something else you can look at and say "I've done that..." I did the session at the MSB as much because I like learning new stuff and being challenged, which a week of free-skiing in Wengen wasn't going to entirely offer.
Anyway, I liked it. I face-planted a number of times, fell over a number more and generally embarassed myself, but it was fun, you could walk more easily and you get a nice feeling of freedom from moving different body parts, getting the heel off the ski and bending ze knee.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skisimon wrote: |
Butterfly, why would you want to alpine ski? Why would you like to ski backcountry? Why would you want to do gates? Why would you want to snow-blade? (Good question actually)... Because they're fun, a new challenge, something else you can look at and say "I've done that..." |
Oh yes, absolutely!
My question was really posed to try to find out what telemarking is! I can now see the attraction, but fear it might be rather beyond my skills and additionally too tough on the knees! However I shall really enjoy watching some!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Butterfly, bring duct tape. You'll need it to hold your splitting sides together.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Butterfly, okay, I think I mis-interpreted your question - although most people did ask it in the sort of "Why on earth would you want to do that you fool" type manner.
I would say though that it's not something I would have done until I was fairly happy skiing most of what a resort could offer on alpine skis (at least the on-piste stuff). I mention that the main reason I did it was to challenge myself, and that challenge is no different from someone like yourself on alpine skis (given your signature) - moving from one level to the next is always fun, even if it is hard work as well, and there is little difference (in my mind) for someone starting on the skiing path, someone mastering parallel, moving onto reds/blacks. Granted, it is a more dramatic 'wow' and 'sh*t' factor for a complete newbie, but trying to break out of your envelope and jump into a bigger one is always something (I think) to be relished. Although you'll probably never get me to the point where I jump off cliffs to push myself (as I'll probably still be stuck trying to get powder sorted!).
I suppose the 'why' is, therefore, because it is the old skiing, the nordic way, and it feels/is different and opens up different opportunities.
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I don't know if many of the telemark skiers are doing it just because they're bored with skiing the resort. In fact, I don't know what percentage of the telemark skier you see in a resort is "resort skiing ONLY".
I started telemarking really as a prerequisite of off-resort touring. If I'm staying in the resort and never go out the back country, I doubt I would bother with telemarking.
As for the knee issue, I too, found it less stressful on the knee than alpine skiing. Yes, you bend your knee a lot more, simply because you CAN!
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I do a lot of telemarking just in resort, but i bought the kit for touring in Scotland. I was doing a mixture of skiing on AT and tele kit, but decided my tele skiing would only really improve if I concentrated on skiing on the telekit. Haven't used anything else for the last 2 years. Still do a lot of alpine turns, particulary if its steep, mogulled or icy.
Why do it - cos its fun  .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have just started telemarking- I am a fairly good skier on and off piste and really liked the idea of a new challenge.
Took some tele lessons a couple of years ago, this season- got some quite good tele skis on ebay (Movement freeheels) and a new pair of Scrapa T2 boots.
Spent Easter week in les Arcs- 75% of skiing time telemarking.
Why?- For me it is more social- when alpine skiing with friends and my wife I ski a lot faster than them- for me the tele gear really slows me down- I get to talk to the wife more!- and I get a better work out- which I really need as I am not very fit.
It is a real challenge- I feel like a beginner again- although the learning curve is quite fast I think (so after a couple of lessons 2 years ago- some sessions in the Manchester Chill Factore and about 5 or 6 half days in les Arcs I can now tele reasonably fast on blues- ski linked turns down the fall line on reds and pisted blacks- but only survive on bumps and I am lost off piste) but my styl eneeds alot of work- I think I am wha's called a 'dog legger' or 'toe dragger'- which means that my knees are too far apart and my back leg is too far back with the back heel too high.
The feeling of tele turns is great- like skiing well off piste.
easier to walk in tele boots (much)
It is fun and makes you think- a lot- about balance- I am sure it really helps with alpine skiing.
It is an odd thing to do- which for me is an attraction- in Les Arcs there were another 3 guys telemarking- that was it- as a minority interest this means it is quite friendly.
Very very strangely it is actually easier on the knees than alpine skiiing- both when skiing- because you absorb bumps much better in a tele stance - but also the stats are that it is the least injury prone snowsport (see ski-injury.com)- even with non-releasable bindings you are less likely to injure your acl- but if you do it is likely to be less serious than on alpine skis.
Why not?- Arguments against bothering would for me include-
wasted time when I could be skiing well on alpine gear- especially if there was lots of fresh snow (when I skied off piste I switched to alpine gear)
expense (boots about £300, skis as expensive as alpine- bindings ditto)
the fear of injury (but not the reality)
the weight of taking 2 sets of skis and boots on holiday (and the agro from the Mrs when I explained that because of this we would all only be taking 2 spare pants each on holiday- and that was it- if it was going to be cold we could always use them as balaclavas)
the pain of getting new boots and the pains involved in wearing new boots
abuse from my friends about looking like a ponce (and looking like a ponce)
On balance- I really like skiing on tele gear- I need more practice- especially on bumps and off piste (that said skiing bumps on tele skis is probably a stupid thing to do anyway)
but when there is fresh snow I will be sticking to my alpine skis for the time being- but hope that I'll be able to tele in the powder- which would be really good especially with areally low stance.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| You can equate it to cross-country but with a better downhill emphasis |
Not sure about that; be interesting to hear from someone who does both. Tele skis are like downhill skis, as I understand it, with strong metal edges and although tele boots have free heels they are rigid, not like cross-country bedroom slipper style boots. I love to watch telemarkers - seen several stunning performers around here the last few weeks, including some awesome powder riding (I suppose they also do it away from the chairlifts.... ). Even good cross-country skiers tend to look like pigs on stilts on anything other than a very gentle piste.
I find that my alpine skills don't help much in cross country (I've done two weeks of lessons but am utterly useless and have found it infinitely harder than learning to snowboard) because the whole "edge set" thing simply doesn't work. I have been tempted to try a tele lesson or two - but been put off because of concerns about not having strong enough knees. The comments above suggest this is a mis-placed concern.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, yes- easier on the knees- strange but true
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pam w, I've linked videos above. XC skis can have metal edges, and XC boots can be rigid. It's more the (lack of) sidecut on xc skis and their very self-propulsion-specific, non-turning camber that differentiates them from tele skis. The Karhu XCD Guide and '08 Alpina Cross Terrain would, for example, be within the tele spectrum, whereas an Atomic Rainier or Chugach would fall within the XC spectrum.
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You know it makes sense.
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Pam, its not the knees, its strong quads you need/develop !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, when we hired tele kit at the MSB, we used alpine skis, just with a tele binding. And while the boots were fairly rigid, they had a kind of concertina fold in the plastic above where your toes would flex naturally. They were also a lot lighter, though I don't know why that is - different kind of plastic? Anyone?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Pam w
Easier on the knees because of less torsional forces (however more quad strength and surrounding tendon rigour required)
Bellows not concertina fold.
Lighter because they are made of lighter composite materials and have less dense plastic hence less rigid. ALpine boots have so many gadget attached these days tha they aren't getting any lighter.
It is called PEBAX.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| I have been tempted to try a tele lesson or two - but been put off because of concerns about not having strong enough knees. The comments above suggest this is a mis-placed concern. |
I started telemarking this year and, from my limited experience, the most important - and difficult choice - is the binding you choose. Some telemark bindings are more "active" than others - meaning that they offer more resistance, and conversely support, when you bend your knee. So, the more active the binding the more "beginner friendly" it seems to be.
(As I say, I'm very much a beginner at this - so please correct me if I'm wrong.)
If it provides any comfort at all, the first 3-4 days are hell, but it does get better quite rapidly.
You should always remember that you can always revert to alpine turns.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Philip
Exactly - the active binding springs are much less stiff thus requiring very little effort to flex the foot - boot stiffness should not be ignored either - the stiffer the boot the more difficult it will be to flex the bellows
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| TelemarkKing wrote: |
| TelemarkKing wrote: |
Philip
Exactly - the [less] active binding springs are much less stiff thus requiring very little effort to flex the foot - boot stiffness should not be ignored either - the stiffer the boot the more difficult it will be to flex the bellows |
See inserted word missed from the post. 'Active' refers to the spring stiffness, not necessarily the existence of component parts. However just asking for the less stiff spring will do though. |
I wondered if you'd done that  . Make more sense now. I know that the springs come on different "strengths". I was just thinking that the absence of a spring would be the least active and adding any spring to it would make things stiffer which I equated to "more active".
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Although there is some activity in cross country bindings too- the rubbery mount at the toe pivot on the salomon bindings I seem to remember gave a little resistance to spring the ski back into place - my Biathlon days were long ago though so I could be wrong.
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| TelemarkKing wrote: |
| Although there is some activity in cross country bindings too- the rubbery mount at the toe pivot on the salomon bindings I seem to remember gave a little resistance to spring the ski back into place - my Biathlon days were long ago though so I could be wrong. |
Subtly different role there, though admittedly both the tele binding spring and the XC rubber can help pressure the forebody of the ski.
The XC rubber, however, does absolutely nothing to keep the toe down on the ski nor does it help break the boot at the bellows (good thing, eh?).
For my own part, I reserve the term 'active binding' to mean
'one that keeps the toe pressured to the ski and helps break the boot at the bellows'
, the forebody pressure taken as a corollary of binding geometry and stance geometry.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| comprex wrote: |
For my own part, I reserve the term 'active binding' to mean
'one that keeps the toe pressured to the ski and helps break the boot at the bellows'
, the forebody pressure taken as a corollary of binding geometry and stance geometry. |
Regardless of definition (and I'm sure there's nothing wrong with that one)...
The key thing to remember from a novice perspecitve is that different telemark bindings can give you a radically different telemarking experience.
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FAQ
I thought 
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