Cross Country

A snowHead

I don't see many references to this in the forum. I am I a heretic in enjoying this ? I tried it for the first time in Lake Louise about 15 years ago due to a problem with my ski boot rubbing my leg which rendered it very painful but not for XC skiing. Loved it although I think you couldn't probably find a better place to do it. Have done it since in Mazama (Washington state) which is a tiny hamlet in the middle of nowhere, another great location for it. Although I love Alpine skiing (always have at least two weeks each year) I also love the occasional XC holiday and would do it more if I had the holiday allowance. Admittedly when I see where they have the XC skiing in most European resorts it doesn't seem to have the same appeal. Maybe Scandinivia is better as it's much more a mainstream activity there.

A snowHead

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dsoutar, there is at least one afficionado here, Dave Horsley, and I think comprex does a bit too (over the pond, and maybe abc too), if you want to search them out.

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LOL !. Yeah, slopes I can quite happily ski downhill backwards on alpine skis I still wobbly about horrendously on skinny skis. When I was in LL, started on the Lake, then did the loop on the rhs of the lake then did the trip to Moraine lake (about 20km return trip). Beuatiful day out and unlike alpine skiing one actually burns off some calories

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

My better half is a cross country skier (no downhill), so when we travel our skibag has one downhill set and two cross country sets in it. The problem with a lot of alpine resorts is that if they have cross country skiing, it's often an afterthought and not terribly good. I get the feeling a lot of places groom a couple km so they can list nordic skiing next to bowling and ice skating in their brochures.

Of the few places we've been in the alps, La Clusaz had exceptional cross country, as did (expectedly) Seefeld. Sadly Seefeld doesn't offer a downhill skier much. She also liked the cross country in Chamonix because it was really conveniently located, but I can't comment for myself as I was only downhill skiing there. On the other hand, Stubai was a joke (a couple km bisected in two places by a piste), and Kühtai was also pretty bad (the 'picturesque lake' you ski around is dominated by a water treatment plant).

We're off to Engelberg tomorrow, so we'll see how that rates.

To be honest, we find the cross country skiing a lot better in the German 'Mittelgebirge', that is the mountains in Germany that are not the alps. These are placed devoted to cross country skiing. They are also closer and cheaper (there are no trail fees in Germany, for instance, and hotels and food are really cheap). The only problem is that snow has been scarce these past two winters. We also did a weekend in Oslo last month, and the cross country network there is amazing. The alps have deep valley and steep peaks. While great for alpine, that’s not so good for cross country skiing. The Harz and Erzgebirge mountains in Germany are not as high (although the base elevations often are) as the alps, but you get rolling hills and wooded trails. Ideal, really.

The Methow Valley (Mazama) is fantastic, as is Leavenworth, WA, not to mention Bend, OR. As with a lot of the places in Germany, these areas cater to cross country skiers first, and it definately gives you a diference vibe. At a lot of alpine resorts, you are made to feel like the slightly embarraing uncle of the family that everyone else likes to try to ignore.

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Leavenworth eh - A very interesting place ! When we checked into the hotel the girl at the front desk (dressed in typical Tyrolean garb)asked in all seriousness if we wanted the Sleigh Bells room. My wife had to leave she was laughing so much ! Nevertheless a beautiful place and very friendly. Off to Mazama this Christmas again. Going to have some lessons to learn to skate this year rather than just ski diagonal (or classic).

In the meantime off to Chamonix tonight. Just hope the snow eases off a bit before we come back Tuesday. Was hoping to ski Vallee Blanche but may have to give it a miss. Will just have to make do with the Grand Montets. Getting so excited !!

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The faux Bavarian/Tyrolian (they even have a "Danish" bakery) Leavenworth concept is indeed absurd, but my God is it a beautiful setting. They still have the only community ski jump left in Washington (there used to be ski jumps all over the Cascades), and apparently you can just show up and they'll let you jump.

One of these years we want to do a week or two ski road trip (most xc, but with a little alpine for me) hitting Stevens Pass, Leavenworth, Lake Chelan, the Methow Valley and back over Snoqualmie (where I learned both xc and alpine). There are also so many places to xc tour in Washington, just without the groomed tracks.

Have fun in Chamonix, and for what it's worth my gf recommends the cross country. We got a surprising foot of fresh snow while there over New Years, and it was great. I can't image how good the Grand Montets will be with all the new snow falling now.

After all it is free

Yes i do a fair bit of xc skiing, I even race (at the back of the field). It is my main summer activity and I'm now back on the bike cycling to and from work to get fit for the racing season. I've not managed much time out on snow this season as Scotland has had poor snow at low level on the east coast - the main xc ski area is the Clashindarroch Forest near Huntly which is at a realtively low level and has had only about 20 or so skiable days so far this season, we usually get between 40-60 skiable days each season. Most of my training is done either on roller skis or on a dry mat on classic skis.

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I've never seen the appeal really.

Aren't the best XC trails in France in the Jura region?

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dsoutar, I had a go at XC skiing a few weeks ago in Finland. It's very very popular there and there are tracks throughout the locals forests.

In Finland it's a sport that is enjoyed by all ages - my friend's folks are 60 and her Dad skis a minimum of 10km (6 miles) per day. They took on the challenge of trying to teach the stupid English guy how to XC ski.....it was hilarious, well they found it amusing anyway!

At the schools, rather than XC running as part of the curriculum, in the winter the kids XC ski. I think it's the same in other Scandie countries too

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Val Gardena seemed to have a lot of respectable looking XC courses, there was an area outside Selva, a big area above St Christina (looked like it was set up for competition) and tracks on the Alpe di Siusi (as far as I could tell).

You know it makes sense.

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Wasn't there a story on here a while back about Helsinki installing an underground XC network?

A snowHead

Tirol, do you mean like the tube or do you mean that people do it in secret, without the authorities knowing, on pain of horrible torture? In either case, why?

A snowHead

There are a number of xc snow tunnels in the nordic countries - equivalent of xscape but for xc skiing. There was a couple of threads on Snowheads about one that opened last summer.

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There is a XC skier in this household. This person is a fitness freak. This person likes to come home dripping in sweat. This person likes to push the boundries of pain. This person isn't me!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Have only xc skied twice (skating). Firstly in Font Romeu in the Pyrennees, a couple of years ago, and this year in La Clusaz, both of which are excellent locations. It is extremely hard work. In La Clusaz I managed about 15-20k in the mornings, then bought an afternoon pass for the downhill skiing, so after 5 days, was ready for a rest! In both places it was possible to hire skating equipment, which is not always possible in other resorts. It is an excellent all body exercise and I just wish that lived somewhere where I could xc ski every day (or, at least at the week ends).

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I only get 3 weeks a year to ski and couldn't bear to use up any of it on the flat - but given more time I might give it a go. From what I hear Scandinavia is the best where you can really go off into the wilds big distances.
However the top of the Haute Maurienne (Val Cenis to Bonneville) seemed to have miles of cross-country tracks along the picturesque valley. You could ski the various small resorts (good unskied off-piste if you find a guide) and it is very cheap there.

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After all it is free

If you ski from Tignes to La Plagne, just when you think that you've got to La Plagne, there's a 5km cross country ski to get to the ski bus, which is a lot of fun. Shocked

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Ah yes, the so called "Tarentaise Tour". Can't remember the name of the place with the cross country track but it seemed fairly extensive and was off in the wilds, rather than near roads. A taxi ride from the back of the La Plagne area though.

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hilary t, La Clusaz is the best xc I've seen in the alps, although admittedly I haven't been too many places. My girlfriend rates it equally with Seefeld. And yes, the rental people there were great in setting our friends up. The proximity of the La Balme lift to the Lac Confins also makes the morning/afternoon split possible as you say. The same is true on Beauregard, although this skiing is not as good.

As for the xc in Englenberg over Easter ...
We had planned all along to xc on Friday. We woke up to a major storm and all the lifts had been closed for the day. Perfect for xc, right? The irony is that while there was too much snow falling up on the mountain, it was rain/snow in the village and there was not enough snow. And we couldn’t take the lift up to the xc trails at the plateau at Gerschnialp, because even though it would have been easy to operate it, with no downhill skiing the lift was closed.

We were about to give up when I had the idea just to take the bus as far up the valley as is possible, gaining 100-150 m in elevation, and see if we could at least find a field to put around in for a while. When we pulled up to the Fürenalp cable car, rang the bell and stood by the door, the driver at first looked puzzled and did nothing until we assured him that we really wanted to get off at a closed lift at the end of the valley in a blizzard. With reservation, he let us off.

We skied a ways more up to the end of the valley and through some pastures in a horizontal driving snow, but after 20 minutes we’d pretty much exhausted the possibilities. Rather than wait for the bus to return, we decided to ski as far back towards the village as we could until we ran out of snow.

So, by utilising walking paths through the forest; crossing pastures and finding the openings through barbed wire fences; crossing the road a couple times; skiing across the golf course; traversing the river; skiing under what looked like a really bad place to be in heavy snowfall, made notable by the “Danger: Avalanches” sign; crossing several narrow wooden footbridges; skirting along the edge of the camping area; receiving countless odd looks from people out walking their dogs, running on the trails, and just generally moping around on a miserable day; and finally following a white stripe of snow heading all the way back to the sports centre, we actually managed to ski all the way back to the village.

I found it a good workout, but my girlfriend said it was pretty easy. The difference of course is that I was breaking trail and she was skiing in my tracks.

It was a fantastic way to spend half a day, especially compared to what all the other people stranded in a ski town with no skiing open were doing all day. Apart from those we saw hopping in a van to Andermatt in front of the train station at 8:00, I can confidently say we were the only people to ski in Engelberg that day.

As for the actual xc trails when they opened up on Friday, I was downhill skiing the entire time, but my girlfriend reports that those at Gerschnialp were good, but the trail at Truebsee is a total waste of time, and is actually very poor because all the downhill skiers who dropped off the back of the Jochstock or the Steinberg use it as a return to the lifts. Without the trails groomed in the valley, though (and they never were), she said the Gerschnialp trails were really only good for half a day. After that it’s just repetitive.

I love the downhill skiing in Engelberg, so I was hoping that we’d found a place we can both enjoy together. Maybe if we can book last minute and know the valley trails are open it can work, but otherwise the search goes on.

We’re hoping to get on our skinny sticks one more time this season on 6 April in the German Harz mountains. Conditions are great there now, but it’s supposed to warm up on the weekend before cooling down again next week. Hopefully there will be enough snow still around; otherwise our season is over.

Some pics from Engelberg:

Complete gallary here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/berliner_jake/sets/72157604238769464/

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hilary t,

15-20k in a morning, especially skating is particularly good going especially of you are new to it. I'm not sure my fitness levels would let me do 20k of skating at the moment.

I've been out in the Clashindarroch Forest (near Huntly in Scotland) the last two evenings for a couple of hours, did about 1km of skating before changing over to classic and doing about 8-10km on both occasions. Good conditions aswell, ~ 1 foot of soft snow on most trails, which had compacted down to 4-6 inches where pisted. Wednesday evening everything was covered in nice and soft dry snow, reasonably quick and good grip from the fishscales and it was lightly snowing. Yesterday it had all crisped up as there had been a freeze thaw cycle, the cut tracks had been reduced in depth by the overnight snow and conditions were very fast, plus grip was poor from the fishscales.

Dave Horsley, We cycle at home, so that probably gives a bit of an advantage in the leg strength and general fitness stakes. We also stopped for a coffee half way through, and to remove a few layers, as the sun arrives at the La Clusaz xc trails at about 10.15 am in February. The balance is the hardest thing, but is defintely very useful when one returns to the downhill skis. The local ski club skiers were very impressive, getting a huge glide on each ski. I have still to commit fully to one ski for a long glide, rather keeping my options open by being ready to fall across to the other ski. It must take a lifetime to be as balanced as someone like Sandrine Bailly, the French biathlete. I probably started a little late in life!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

hilary t,

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Cross Country

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