 Poster: A snowHead
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First post so please be gentle!.....
We're off to Whistler for 10 days over xmas this year (just a few weeks to go!!!) and the temperatures are already heading down to -15°C / -20°C and this will definitely be the coldest skiing conditions we have experienced.
Any tips on what level of kit we're likely to need to keep warm? Our starting point would normally be...
thermal long's and salopettes
mid-weight thermal base layer (helly hansen or similar), light/mid weight fleece jumper & ski jacket
neck gaiter, hat, goggles & gloves
how many more layers are we likely to need? Are balaclava's worth getting? Maybe double up on base/mid layers?....or am I just worrying over nothing and the answer is simply to ski harder!
For info we're intermediate level - hoping to get onto the (single) black runs by the end of this year.
Thanks for your help,
JenkinsDH
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JenkinsDH, welcome to snowHeads 
There seems a steady stream of snowHeads going that way this season.
It isn't much fun when it is that cold, I don't envy you that bit (but would love to go to Whistler), your face and any exposed bits really feel it, especially if there is any wind-chill. Anything to cover the face would be a bonus, (there was a thread on face-masks fairly recently).
You could consider some (silk) lining gloves to go under your main ones. Otherwise, lots of layers and lots of stops for vin chaud.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JenkinsDH, Welcome to snowHeads.
I've never felt the cold but my partner Deb does, particularly in her hands & feet. Those temperatures used to ruin her day until I fitted heated insoles in her boots. She also carries a spare pair of gloves in her pack & swaps at lunchtime.
Your layering system sounds spot on & balaclava's are a good idea to prevent frost bite, especially if the wind gets up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller, Laminated kit list has to be the way forward 
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JenkinsDH, I always take the little handwarmers that you can pop inside your gloves:
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Boot Gloves.
Completely windproof outer shell. (Pants too  )
If the above not possible then highly windresistant midlayer (Polartec WindPro and similar. )
Helmet with closed vent holes
Balaclava.
Extra neck fleece.
I am -NOT- a fan of large numbers of layers, merely well-thought out ones. For brutal cold, -25 and below, down is still best.
My extras include:
Bum apron (the one I have is by RC sport, you are far more likely to find them there) for lift riding.
OR shell overmitts (not really needed but I like to protect my leather gloves from super cold metal contact).
Nose fleece (made by a Cdn company & called the "Pinch"), fogs the goggles far less than face masks.
http://www.pinchoriginal.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=98
What else? Oh, yes
-Always stop in the sunlight not in the shade
-Don't drink from a can outdoors.
-Keep cameras in plastic bags
Good luck, wish I was going.
I really like the snow when it gets that cold, as it stops cohering and becomes like baby powder, imagine powder float in a 68mm ski comparable to an 84mm ski in Tahoe combined with working edges, teee heee, glorious. 
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 27-11-06 0:28; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JenkinsDH - welcome to s
I'd suggest waiting and seeing JenkinsDH.
I've skied in Whistler a few times at that time of year and the only thing that I bought specially * was a neoprene face mask - which I've only had to wear on three occasions - all in Whistler.
There are loads of shops there and even some on the mountain - so if you're feeling the cold then just buy something appropriate at the time (with "holiday money" - which, as we all know, isn't real money at all...). There's enough competition to keep gear prices reasonable - certainly no worse than you'd pay in the UK.
Do sign up for lessons in Whistler - the ski school is excellent and their "Ski Esprit" programme will have you on the single blacks in no time.
* The time in question I got on the chair lift at the bottom only to discover that it was around -45 with wind chill. I got off the top of the lift and joined the (large) queue at the mountain shop for a face mask. Next lift I was sat next to a Scottish guy with his jacket open and no hat on. "You're crazy", I said. "Nah", he replied, "I've just done 6 weeks in Banff - it's like this every day there..."
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I have very fond memories of freezing our nipples off on the harmony bowl chair lift, in a huge storm, with biting wind blowing in our faces. Every time on the lift was definitely going to be our last one, until we got back below the tree line, and were hitting the slopes that had so much snow on them that you couldn't see our own tracks from ten minutes ago. To make it better, the liftie told us that we were the only ones using that lift at that time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Good point to remember from Kramer, - its on the chair lift where you can get really cold (well I do!). Make sure you're well wrapped up on a cold day before you get on. Hood over hat can make a big difference to the wind.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When's the usual coldest part of Canada's season? Just wondering how cold Fernie will be - going out on the 31st of jan and wondering if it's worth investing in a bunch of merino wool stuff 
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I've got a heatcell made by Berghaus. It's a fleece bodywarmer/Gilet (whatever you like to call it - has no sleeves!) with a battery pack to power the heat patch on the lower back - it has a push in switch to turn on & off - excellent for chilly lifts. It wasn't cheap (£150) but I'd had some xmas cash so decided to treat myself before a trip to Banff. Wouldn't be without it now as I feel the cold!! Battery lasts about 3 hours but it's always been plenty for a day's skiing as I just use it for the odd 10 minutes here & there.
Have also been to Whistler - it was fantastic!! We tried the zip trek on our last day - flying through the trees on high wires - it was brilliant. Also try the tube park.
Enjoy!!
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You know it makes sense.
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When it is ultra-cold, the extremities suffer first.
Double-up on socks (although, this might impair your skiing in some instances).
Wear good inners with gloves. Buy some chemical handwarmers, if possible.
Wear longjohns, to keep the legs warm.
Wear 3 or 4 layers for the upper body. At least one should be a rollneck or similar, to keep the wind out.
Wear a good woolly hat.
Wear a high-quality windproof coat (e.g. North Face). Always keep the hood up.
And the best clothing for making the ultra-cold bearable -- a warm balaclava.
I've skied in -25c to -30c in Val Thorens and Killington over the last few years. You just have to keep adding layers until you get warm.
PS. Flashk5 -- do you have a link to the Berghaus heatcell you refer to? Sounds interesting. Thanks in advance.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I went to Canada last year and although it was warmer than it could have been the neoprene face mask was a life saver on the one really cold day. I'm also a great fan of of silk glove liners. Not only do they keep your hands warmer they also stop the insides of your gloves getting as wet from perspiration.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I bought mine from Lockwoods in Leamington Spa but I've seen them in other places too.
They do jackets & mittens too now.........
http://www.exo2.co.uk/berghaus_products.html
I've also got a neck tube that has long pieces back & front to stop any draft getting in. Bought that from the ski show last year & was well used in Banff. Can also be pulled over your head if you forget your hat - looks a bit like ET tho'!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Whitegold wrote: |
When it is ultra-cold, the extremities suffer first.
Double-up on socks (although, this might impair your skiing in some instances). |
I agree with the statement Whitegold, but not this specific bit of advice (I agree with the rest!).
The reason that hands and feet suffer first is that the when your core starts to cool your body reduces circulation to your extremities in an effort to retain warmth in the core.
If your feet and hands are cold it's a sign that your core is cold.
The solution is to add more layers on your core - not add more layers to your feet and hands.
If you can wear a second pair of socks in your ski boots then they are probably too loose. A second pair of socks in my boots would probably cut off my circulation...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| flashk5 wrote: |
I've also got a neck tube that has long pieces back & front to stop any draft getting in. Bought that from the ski show last year & was well used in Banff. Can also be pulled over your head if you forget your hat - looks a bit like ET tho'!!!! |
I make those myself!!! They cost about £20 each, I can make them for less than £3, all the family now have them and they are great. They keep you toasty warm without overheating under the arms.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, Laminated kit list has to be the way forward |
Absolutely essential I would think. Maybe tape a sheet of tin foil on the back of the list pre-lamination. Then you could always use it as a sort of spaceblanket.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mitts (maybe even overmitts plus gloves) are warmer than gloves.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Scarpa, true, true. And they cushion bottles so well in travel.
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A gilet is great: it keeps the core warm which in turn stops the extremities getting cold. It reduces a lot of the bulk as well so you don't end up having 3 layers under your cuffs
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JenkinsDH, A lot depends on your body type - PhillipStanton, says that the extremities suffer due to reduced core heat. I assume (from previous posts) that Phillip is a fit, athletic sort of person. I have skied in temps of -30C and never had problems with body temperatures but have suffered from cold extremities (I'm the one who always steams when I undo my jacket).
To me, keeping the extremities protected reduces my perception of cold. Thermic insoles, although expensive, do really work as do those horrible, neoprene masks which stop your face freezing.
The one most important thing I've found in keeping warm throughout the day is to never let your gloves get cold - if you stop at a mountain restaurant and take your gloves off put them inside your jacket - once they're cold it'll take you a long time to heat them up again.
ps I hope Whistler's weather forecast is correct as I went in mid Feb a few years ago and it was horribly wet and slushy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| colin_g wrote: |
| I assume (from previous posts) that Phillip is a fit, athletic sort of person... |
I obviously "post" better than I look 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for all the great advice - it's great to find a friendly & helpful forum that also has a decent amount of traffic!
It sounds like the general consensus is that we should be OK to go with what we have but to be prepared to add a couple of things to our kit once we're there if we feel the need. I just didn't want to get there and find out that all our kit was insufficient and we had to spend £00's getting new everything so that's put my mind at rest.
Re. buying kit whilst out there / on the slopes. We went to Whistler at the end of last season (temps were 0°C to +5°C) and I ended up getting a set of goggles slope-side since if it was anything less than v. bright sunshine the sunglasses I had turned everything to night so this is definitely a good idea. Prices in Whistler itself, as mentioned elsewhere, seemed no worse than the UK although I have heard that a trip to Vancouver can be worthwhile as the prices for ski kit drops significantly once you're away from the tourists.
Since Whistler was my first ski holiday (and will also be my second!), I haven't got anything to compare it to but it seemed an excellent resort - great people and feel to the village and there's so much skiable area we never got bored of doing the same runs over and over again. ...it must have been good as we're going back again! We've just got the long wait now while we count down the days (just 15 working days left!).
Thanks again,
JenkinsDH
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I wouldn't recommend a "woolly hat" to anyone, rather a hat made out of modern material, with ear covers, ie will dry quicker than wool if it gets wet.
regards,
Greg
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You know it makes sense.
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JenkinsDH, mrs O and i have skied often in -30 and below in Canada (wind chill makes it a lot less than that)
Mrs O feels the cold more than me, but has always been comfortable due to good quality (dont buy cheap crap) thermal underwear, socks and undergloves. Facemasks / balaclavas are a must for lifts and fast skiing/ skiing against the wind.
Goggles NOT sunglasses
sensible layering of garments, and ensure they breathe not hold in sweat. Outer gear waterproof (some stuff isnt)
you can nut liners for under helmets (RED do a good one)
warm drinks, stay hydrated, eat !
enjoy yourself.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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good news - Whistler is not really that cold normally. It's a maritime climate so mild, cloudy, snowy weather is more common than continental/Rockies style clear, dry and very cold weather. The downside is that the powder is not as light. The upside is that you get frequent falls of fresh snow. I skied Whistler one January and it was raining at the TOP of the mountain! Rain in the village is not unusual.
Of course that's not to say that you can't get cold snaps at whistler but probably not worse than the Alps (where I've skied in -20 a number of times).
IN terms of your kit, I'd suggest neck gaiter and goggles is fine - don't need a balaclava. A helmet would be nice and you'll see most locals wear them. I'd consider carrying spare gloves (it's when they get wet that your hands get really cold). I like having a fleece vest as an option - either instead of the midlayer if its fairly mild or as well as the midlayer if its really cold - less cumbersome than another set of sleeves.
J
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Poster: A snowHead
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JenkinsDH,
I agree, I'd go with what you have and add an icebreaker merino wool base layer. So light and so warm.
For very cold temps my kit is an icebreaker base, a micro fleece, a polartec200 fleece as a top fleece and a medium weight hardshell with full closure and hood etc. For warmer and typical alpine days, I'd lose the icebreaker. The best hat is a Patagonia in thick fleece...!!
The only other thing to consider would be how much energy you will be using. If you ski hard then you will warm up pretty quicky so can afford to run a little cold 1st thing, ie, not sweating or uncomfortable at base station.
If you aren't moving quickly and a lot, then you will have to dress up a bit more. I normally add the icebreaker if it gets below -15 or so and at those temps you should have a face mask handy IMV.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski, Mountain Equipment seems to be getting a lot of good reviews for their shell clothing over the past couple of years.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JenkinsDH, those little handwarmers are sold all over the place in Whistler. I am always cold, but I wasn't in Whistler. I don't wear two pairs of long socks, but on very cold days, I have been known to wear a pair of those thin trainer socks (only just go past the ankle bone) under my ski socks. I don't seem to be able to find a hat that fits me properly, and end up with a kids headband, with a hat on top.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JenkinsDH, welcome to sH. Its really cold in Whistler at the moment and I'm going to go out and get some more layers to keep me warm. I've been using one of those neck warmer things pulled up over my face but will probably get a neoprene mask (tee hee, the thing that looks like a gimp mask!!) Apparently its not usually this cold this time of year. Its easy enough to buy more layers whilst out on the slopes.
Would be great to meet up and ski with you when you're here. Hopefully I'll know my way round a bit more by then.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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A thought about skiing in remote areas (ie where you won't be seen quickly by a ski patrol) in really cold temperatures. Might be worth at least one of the party carrying a survival bag, and a down sleeping bag (in a stuff bag) in case someone is injured and has to await rescue. The injured party - not to mention those staying to keep him/her company, could get very cold very quickly.
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Bottle of JagerMeister
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Whistler is rarely colder than -20, Fernie too. On the really cold days (-30 or more ) you will get frostnip/bite so no-one does more than a couple of runs at a time before rewarming indoors. No exposed skin is the basic rule
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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THE ULTIMATE, NEVER-COLD OUTFIT: (Skied in -50 temps in Sunshine Village, Banff)
Must Haves:
Smartwool Socks (Never had cold feet ever, introduced to the women in our group last year who were suffering and they had no further problems)
TNF Base Layer
Snug fitting Gilet of some sort (Usually kept in back pack until needed)
200 weight Polartec, TNF Fleece
Gore-tex gloves: Preferably gloves that have an inner glove and long gauntlets. (Ensure to tuck gauntlets in to your sleeve to ensure wind doesn't get in)
Saly's: must be insulated and preferably made of Gore-tex or similar. This will cut out the wind and ensure that your legs can still breath. They must also have tight gaiters at the bottom and shold be pulled as far down the boot as possible.
Outer Shell: must be made of Gore-Tex or Gore-Tex XCR, whatever jacket you get you need to ensure it has a powder skirt even if you plan to stay on the groomers. This feature will keep a lovely pocket of warm air around you and should you fall over the pow won't go up your back or down your trousers.
Wooly Hat: fairly thick with a fleece lining to stop the wind. If you are in a blistering wind I suggest you put your hood up and tighten it down.
Fleece Neck Warmer: This will stop the wind whistling down your neck.
Goggles: These will be an absolute god-send when the wind is howling. They bridge the gap between your hat and neck warmer so that no skin is exposed which is the most important thing.
Hope this helps
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RE shell jackets.... Or any of the other decent shells eg event, triple ceramic etc. Goretex is not the be all and end all - although I have to admit I just bought a new one as my 16 yr old goretex has pretty much had it. A pertex/pile shirt or jacket such as buffalo or montane can replace 3 inner layers and will wick sweat amazingly. When not wet they will work great without a shell. A pair of breathable over mitts with grippy palms (as used by mountaineers) are very warm over your normal gloves.
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