 Poster: A snowHead
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just looked at my ski bases and the wax is a lot thicker in some places along the same ski than it is in others. Should i be concerened or will it just even out after the first run. They don't look like they did when i bought them last year.edges look as if they have had a sharpen as the rust has gone
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bigtoe, you shouldn't see any wax on the surface of the skis as the excess should have been scraped off & the bases brushed clean out the structure. If it was a shop wax then any excess will come off pretty quickly as the wax used is usually not that durable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bigtoe, Sounds like they haven't scrapped the excess wax off. Best to do it when you get to resort, so that the excess wax protects the bases in transit. Use a Plastic Wax Scraper.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| so that the excess wax protects the bases in transit. |
From what?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderman can i do this cold or should they be heated.
Spyderjon, wish i had done it myself now. It was shop done. I took them in at the end of the season and didn't pick them back up until recently, is it possible they left the extra wax on for storage expecting me to take them back when the season started again. If so i could do this quite easily.
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comprex, Scratches and general grit and dirt, plus there's probably wax covering the edges too. I always leave the wax on until I get to resort, especially as they've normally been bounced around in a top box for 12 hours.
bigtoe, Bases should be scraped when the ski is cold.
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spyderman, cheers for the reply, so all i do is get a plastic scraper and scrape it all of flat whats this Spyderjon says about brushing the structure out?
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bigtoe, if you haven't got a brush don't worry about it. Just scrape off all the wax using strokes from tip to tail only. They'll be a bit sticky for a run or two until the wax wears out of the structure so you might just have to point 'em downhill more 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon, so if skiing reveals the structure like brushing what would be the difference after a couple of runs if bigtoe didn't even bother with the scrape?
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nessy, Ski/boards run on a film of water & the structure in the base breaks the surface tension & helps sheds the water like the tread on a tyre. If you don't scrape it could take a long time to wear off the wax, depending on how hard & how thick it is, how aggressive the snow is, how heavy your are, how fast you go etc etc.
It also depends on the quality of the wax as per this post from another thread:
| Ronald wrote: |
| I have "Zoom dominator" universal wax from spyderjon, and i was very lazy yesterday so didn't scrape it assuming the excess would come off in a run or 2.... The centres of my skis still have excess after a whole day! This opposed to the club med wax who don't scrape any ski they service.... it comes off in 1 run... |
I'd certainly recommend scraping as the skis could feel pretty crappy. If you're not after the best performance from the get go then it ain't the end of the world if you don't brush out the structure after scraping but performance will be worse the higher the moisture content in the snow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spyderman, edges aside for the moment, if the skis are base-to-base and held that way by locked brake tension or straps at shovels and tails, what's going to get in there to make the scratches? I honestly think most non-skiing base scratches are from people allowing -single- skis to fall or impact objects regardless, and from people not knowing how to free skis when the brakes are locked together.
General grit and dirt seems more worrying for bindings than bases, in all honesty. Assuming the top box is clean, or the airline ski bag is clean, where would it come from? why would it stay on the bases long enough or firmly enough to be relevant when skiing? Heck, if we can scrape wax off by skiing, why can't we scrape surface fluff off by skiing?
It seems to me that the 'protective wax' tradition is a conflation of several possible scenarios in each of which it is rather a half baked remedy, somehow grouping these remedies makes for a stronger case?
In detail thus:
- edge protection assuming no water was trapped against the edges when the wax was applied or that the wax constitutes an oxygen seal
- impact and scratch protection for those who, for unexplained reasons??? prefer to carry or stow skis as single skis during transit and not in the gondola, as it's scraped off by the second gondy ride
- scratch protection from those who can't release locked-together brakes without scraping edges on bases and actually care enough to notice the difference when skiing
- grit and dirt protection for bases but not bindings for those who use rooftop racks without rooftop boxes or ski bags AND scrape the bases immediately before skiing to get rid of embedded or coating grit before skiing in which case what do you do for the return trip or second day of car hire? Also notice that not scraping immediately before skiing leaves the presumably scratchy grit to work into the bases under body weight
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I thing storage wax tends to be found on skis that haven't been fitted with bindings yet, and hence are more prone to damage.
Surely it also helps the wax to penetrate the base of the skis as much as possible?
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Spikyhedgehog, surely it does. This is why we use heat or chemical penetrants. Unheated scrapeable wax penetrates ski bases about as fast as an unheated candle droops. That would make for some quite obsolete (but ready!) skis.
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You know it makes sense.
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spyderjon, interesting. The wax I use is TOKO universal for graphite bases. If I were to use this Dominator Zoom universal (and scrape it as well) would the wax last longer.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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nessy, IMO yes & the Dominator also has a wider snow temperature operating range than the Toko. Can you get Dominator locally?
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, after a quick google I would say probably not. I will have a look in Stoeckli. They have a good range of tuning stuff.
Is there another brand you recommend or is it worth mail ordering.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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nessy, If you want some I'm going to Verbier on the 19th so could post you some from Geneva airport to avoid international postage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, many thanks for the offer. I will see what they have locally on Saturday first. Do you have the smaller graphite pack?
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spyderjon
May well be interested in doing one of your courses, can I have details.
Thanks
Kel
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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nessy, sorry but I only do the 400g Dominator blocks as they're so much better value. Any particular reason why you want the graphite version?
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Kel, I've PM'd you.
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spyderjon, 400g would last me for a loong time  As for the graphite - no special reason except that all my ski bases are black.
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| nessy wrote: |
| spyderjon, 400g would last me for a loong time As for the graphite - no special reason except that all my ski bases are black. |
About 20 waxes for an average size pair of skis from a 400g block. Wax with added graphite in theory makes the skis a tad quicker due to it's anti-static properties but this is only really beneficial to serious racers, with it working best on natural or man-made snow that is up to three days old. The downside is that it stains non-black bases, & everything else it comes in contact with, so unless you're racing I'd recommend the non-graphite Lime version.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon, I thought there was something about graphite wax being best to maintain graphite bases. But you are the expert
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nessy, What make/model skis do you have? There's relatively few skis on the market (usually race skis) that have graphite added to the p-tex base material. Even though the majority of ski/board bases are black p-tex they don't have a graphite component to them. If you do have graphite bases there's no special requirement to use a graphite wax, in fact it more be more beneficial to use a graphite wax on a non graphite base.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, Scott Missions. Yes I assumed black base = graphite  My last snowboard had an electra 4000 base which I believe to contain graphite.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon, just a technical note from a man at DuPont; Skis ride on gas caused by cavitation created by the 'structure' of the base. But for this to happen there must be melt-water under the ski created by the wax . . . hence the technical waxes and differing temperature values. But since it's a PITA to have to keep changing your wax on what could be a daily basis, graphite and teflon, etc. are being incorporated into base materials and waxes to increase the inherent 'slipperiness' of the material, reducing the need for specialised waxes and skilled professional maintenance.
That doesn't mean that your kit won't benefit from a good servicing and last longer because if it . . . only that you may not have the skills to notice or benefit from it 
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, As I understand it (and this is second hand . . . but from an informed source, he's a plastics engineer developing base materials) . . . there is an optimal balance of melt under the ski and it's the wax, snow temperature, friction and speed that determines how close to that optimum is achieved. Apparently it is possible for a waxed ski to seem to perform very poorly and 'sticky' at low speed but on achieving a higher speed becoming virtually frictionless. Engineers are 'doping' plastics to widen the performance window with the ultimate goal of not needing waxing.
Too much melt under the ski is as debilitating to ski performance as too little. Fortunately most of us are too slow and ski in fairly average conditions to worry too much about 'performance' waxing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Masque, fair enough.
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, I will take you up on your offer. PM to follow.
But you say you use 20g per pair of skis per wax. That would mean only 3 waxes out of the 60g Toko block I have at the moment. I am using a fraction of that amount. Am I doing something wrong? I apply just enough wax to completely cover the surface.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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nessy, should be alright, remember the size of the skis enters into it and you're probably not waxing Gotamas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| spyderjon wrote: |
I'd certainly recommend scraping as the skis could feel pretty crappy. If you're not after the best performance from the get go then it ain't the end of the world if you don't brush out the structure after scraping but performance will be worse the higher the moisture content in the snow. |
I'd certainly have scraped if the snow had been anything but quite perfect and not at all very humid ;P
Like I said I was being lazy, and didn't have much time after setting the angles on the Stoeckli GS to 3 (hadn't serviced that pair of skis before)
Btw... i think i'm using quite a bit less then 20 grams of wax per session as well?
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spyderjon, and everone else. thanks for the input.
I think i'll get in touch syderjon and order a scraper, brush and some of that non wax stuff i read about.
cheers all
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So I have my 10 year supply of wax from spyderjon I even treated myself to a brand new scraper. I have done the whole hot scrape, wax, cold scrape, brush thing and put two days on them so far. The bases still look nice and waxy but it is too soon to tell as I would have expected to get at least 4 days out of my old Toko wax.
Next time I wax I will probably try the pamw one ski scraped, one not experiment (with a scraper in my pocket just in case). The Dominator Zoom wax does seem to be very sticky though. I still have some stuck to the sidewalls that have survived 2 days of carving.
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Don't know were I got the 20grams per waxing from but I've got 6 pairs to do tomorrow so I'll do a before/after weighing & check how much I use.
nessy, I'm just looking at the bases of my skis that have just had 6 full days of hard skiing in Verbier using Dominator Zoom Lime Uni & there's no sign at all of them requiring wax.
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spyderjon, 10 days hard skiing in Canada and no greyness using Dominator Zoom (although mashed edges and bases thanks to trees...maybe paying you a visit before my next trip  )
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Sharkymark, 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK, reading back through this thread I noticed this:
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and from people not knowing how to free skis when the brakes are locked together.
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So, er, what's the proper way to undo them?
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I put some Dominator Zoom on my other skis yesterday then ran the iron over with some kitchen roll as described in this thread. No scrape. After 2 very short runs they looked like they had been scraped.
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