Trains and boats and planes......

A snowHead

Oh, sorry.... got carried away with the tune in my head there......!

Our transfer back to Geneva from Vallandry yesterday was a nightmare. We left the resort at 9.30 and joined a queue on the valley road for the tunnel traffic lights, then found further queues and heavy traffic everywhere, Moutiers, Annecy......! We finally got to the airport at 1.15, just a half hour before our check-in closing time! The flight was near enough on time and we were driving out of the car park at Luton airport at 4.30pm, Uk time, 8hrs after leaving the resort. I know it was a busy weekend, but it was very frustrating nonetheless sitting in the minibus worrying we'd miss the flight.

As we joined the valley road near Aimes, we saw the train disappear and our driver said in his opinion it was by far the better option. On getting to Geneva I wondered how far we'd have got had we been on that instead and I am sure someone here knows, so please guys...

What is the approximate journey time back to blighty (St Pancras) by train?

a. if changing in Paris?
b. on the straight through ski train?

Do these trains suffer with delays like ours always seem to? Are there other drawbacks to using the train?

A snowHead

Butterfly, There was a thread while you were away from a guy who has missed his flight recently due to traffic jams on that road. Its not your fault but the local taxi driver should have known that in Feb holiday season that area is known for traffic jams. Either be out of resort by 8am or leave till late afternoon but 9.30am in peak season. Thats asking for trouble.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Butterfly, I would guess around 10 hours from your nearest station travelling via Paris. The TGVs generally run perfectly on time. You can find out for yourself at www.sncf.fr. No idea about direct services. Maybe you could look on the Eurostar site?

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thefatcontroller, yes we know now!! As you rightly remark, not our fault because we were simply told the transfer time. It wasn't a taxi, it was the Ski-Amis transfer - the company through whom we booked our accommodation. They'd had a Friday meeting and decided that because the morning traffic on the 16th wasn't bad, the 23rd would be ok too....DOH! Had we missed our flight I rather think they'd have been paying the cost of us getting a later one!

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David Murdoch, I tried the various sites but haven't found a timetable (yet), just the online booking pages.

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AH - found the timetables this morning! Must have been too tired when looking last night! Seems the journey time is virtully identical, leaving BsM 9.50, arriving London St P 16.12! Hmm, definite food for thought there.

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Butterfly, Choices are a) leave very early, spend your day being ranted at by clueless idiots who are determined that you're lying to them when you talk about traffic jams because 'there was no traffic at all' (because we LEFT EARLY you F-wit); or b) leave later, get stuck in traffic and arrive late at the airport, meanwhile being ranted at along the lines of 'you should know about this, why didn't you leave enough time etc etc' (er, because you would have whined about getting out of bed early, madam).

Depends on which sort of grief you choose to put up with on a given weekend, really. Laughing

After all it is free

Lizzard, sounds about right! Laughing

There's a lot to be said for taking the train during half-term holidays, especially if you're heading to any of the Tarentaise resorts.

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Giving the train(s) a go for the MSB next month. It's a bit of a complex journey (with at least four changes Shocked

) and (by choice) involves an overnight in Paris. But thought it would make a nice change from the usual cattle class flying experience. Not cheap though, and the travel time door to door (excluding the overnight) is looking like about 12 hours, which is about an hour less than driving it was last week.

Lizzard, Your choices ring a bell. On the 'Lads' trip to Val in January, (with Mark Warner who in every other respect were very good indeed) the transfer from Val to Geneva involved a 3 and a half hour coach journey that started at 4.00 AM Shocked

For some reason they didn't use the E25 / A40 (can only assume it was to save tolls) so the coach crawled along the D and N roads all the way there. The early start meant no traffic problems, but 3.5 hours to do 100 miles? I've driven it in not much over 2 several times. If this was a 'cost cutting' exercise they would be better to charge everyone a few Euros more (the coach was full) and give us an extra hour in bed. A point I made (sleepily) to the rep. Confused

One last comment. We drove to Wengen at Half term, and the traffic was (expectedly) heavy. On the French roads the telepeage was worth its weight in platinum. At two busy peage's I passed a 'queue' of hundreds of cars, (we counted over 30 overtakes) to roll up to an empty T lane. Fantastic! Very Happy

I'd guess that using the T lanes saved us well over an hour of queuing, and passing all those vehicles is VERY satisfying Very Happy

I just don't understand why more FRENCH cars don't use it???

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There's a lot to be said for taking the train anyway even if it's a longer journey time . . . you sit down stretch out your legs, open a book and a bottle . . . then . . . RELAXZZZzzzzzzz and all without the body cavity search by a bad-tempered troglodyte with both self-esteem and temper management issues.

I'm really looking forward to joined up railways.

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AxsMan, interesting that you are using the train to the MSB - I looked at it - and gave up trying to figure a sensible deal (mind you, I didn't think of overnighting it in Paris). Would you mind posting your train timetables for both outbound and inbound trips. I am getting fed up with airport hassle - but finding sensible train trips has not been easy - and so far I have given up.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

AxsMan, wow, that's a lot of changes. Are you responsible for your luggage during those changes, or is it done by the rail service?

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rob@rar, Depends on how cute the Troglodyte is and I tend to look like something your mother would scrub off a doorstep so maybe I just look guilty about summat . . . In the sort term I think we're gonna have to look at joining up bits of travel ourselves. For the MSB (after flights were booked rolling eyes

) I went looking for alternatives.

Ferry (foot from Harich . . . easy bus ride for me) to the Haag and train to Wengen (2 changes but very good connections) worked out at £210 return and about 20 hours door2door
Ferry to Oostend (foot from Harich . . . easy bus ride for me) and train to Wengen (3 changes, ok connections) worked out at £191 return and about 24 hours door2door

I'm wondering if I should research the transfers first to differing and less obvious flight hubs and then look at flights. Like Munchen for Austria, Venice for the same and Switzerland . . . Italian rail travel is slow but VERY cheap and regular.

A sH database of travel options for various resorts could be a real asset to the site.

A snowHead

rob@rar, Are there any more luggage lugging and changes for us dweebs flying Air Michelle?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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AxsMan, interesting - and thanks. Might look at that again next year - though the thought of going through the Metro with ski kit (including skis) is a bit of a turn-off. Are taxis prohibitively expensive? Rob has a point about the luggage, particulalry if one is on one's own - not so much when caring it around, as having someone with it when going to the toilet - or a cafe (self -service can be fun when you have kit and are on your own). Maybe next year we could think about a party joining up for a train trip to the MSB?

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After all it is free

achilles, Could work. Will let you know how much fun/challenging this one turns out to be when I get to Wengen!

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AxsMan, looking forward to seeing you there snowHead

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rob@rar, Suspect it will be periods of relaxation interspersed with moments of panic, bit like (my) skiing really Laughing

achilles, ditto! snowHead

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You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I find the train marginally longer and can be expensive but I think it is pretty joined-up as it is, or it is certainly not a strain, IMV. However, I travel light and mostly on my own.

I get a taxi to the Eurostar station and then on to Paris...taxi to the outbound station there, typically Gare d Lyon, and then onto the alpes.
I find that Switzerland dove-tail their trains very well and mostly it is just a cross-over of platforms, as at Bern, for example.

I have caught a train all the way to Bern.... from Paris as it happens which helps, but often I'd use GVE as the gateway.

Typically, you need 1 hr plus to cross Paris by taxi.. I use them even if the queue looks daunting. You'll see more than 30 cabs at Gare d Nord within 15 mins so the queue disapears fast, IME. If I had to I could probably walk it in that time. Getting a cab from Gare d Lyon is .... well, you just have to know where they have hidden the taxi rank.
I'll upgrade to 1st class if poss as mostly, it isn't too different in price but the biggest gain I get, is that it is the best, most stress-free way of travelling, IMV

A snowHead

davieg, looks like a good route. This was my first attempt at using the train for a ski trip, so I'm sure there's scope for improvement. snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Christopher, I should have been more precise. from my repeated experience of Venice to Aviano just off the main rail link to Austria it's slow but very regular, reliable and extraordinary good value. But that is 'slow' in relative terms and not a lot different to French rural rail. I neglected to say that it's also very clean and comfortable. I've also ridden the Amalfi Coast line and Turin to Milan. That and a close acquaintance has this Summer been to Domodossola via train from Turin and described it as "charmingly nostalgic but dreadfully slow" . . . Me I don't care how long it takes as long as I'm comfortable.

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davieg, You missed one train change at Lauterbrunnen

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I've always found trains a good idea in theory but almost useless in reality. I'd like to use the train more in the UK (especially as I'm only a 10min walk from the station) but as they only run Mon-Fri and not after 2000 they're virtually useless for my needs.
Flew from Manchester last month - no train there & back possible without adding 2 days to my journey Sad

So I drove there & back.
Flying from Luton in a fortnight for the MSB, only train goes via London, but no return possible without a 6 hour wait on a platform mid-journey. Sad

Car wins again
Going by Eurostar for the EOSB and getting to St Pancras for a Fri afternoon train isn't a problem but getting back from London on a sunday is - I'll need someone to come and pick me up from a distant station as apparantly trains only run during the week in these parts Sad

Car will again have to come to the rescue.

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FenlandSkier, but that's your fault. You chose not to live in London rolling eyes

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It is the price of the trains that is offputting.

I would use trains from London and change at Paris to get trains to the alps if it was considerable cheaper, especially the eurostar. At the moment flights are much cheaper with easyjet and ryanair.

It costs £1,000 for 4 in my family to go from London by Eurostar to Paris and then onwards to Oulx in Italy by TGV.

I can do the same for £450 flights London - Turin and then £200 transfer.

After all it is free

Christopher, That's a very good point. Our train Journey to Wengen (for two adults, admittedly with 1st class some of the way and two meals each) is costing over £700. Even without 1st class and the extras it would have been around £600. we could certainly fly for £2-300 less. Eurostar etc need to bring their prices down to compete with the cheap airlines, it surely MUST cost less to move a trainload of people from London to Bourg St Maurice, than to fly a planeload from (say) Luton to Geneva?

If they priced train travel cheaper, AND made it easy to buy 'through' tickets I might well use the train for every trip. Very Happy

AxsMan, Remember that they must be paying for the new line from St.Pancras and the tunnel itself cost a bomb. So I imagine they have high costs. But still they have so many potential customers if they dropped there prices and became competitive.

I imagine if they had overnight skiing services which meant an extra day skiing and cheaper prices a lot of people would use it. With a lot less hassle than at the airport. Relaxing and comfortable in my opinion compared to cramped planes.

They should look to have services to more areas other than the Tarentaise awell.

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Christopher, Agree with you 100%

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Trains and boats and planes......

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