 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
New to skiing and here so go easy 
Spent a week in Les Arcs this January and loved it so returning in March. Have booked up a road trip with two cars going.
We were planning to drive down non-stop with two drivers (Both used to long distance driving). Has anyone done this before? Is it feasible?
Also there seems to be a lot of conflicting information around.. are snow chains mandatory in France Alpine resorts and are they to be fitted to just the driven wheels.
Any info would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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mattbrum, welcome to snowHeads!
Yes, I think a few people drive through the night to get to resort. I'd not do it now, but it's certainly feasible with two or three drivers.
I think snowchains are essential, particularly if you don't have winter tyres. The local police will turn cars back down the mountain if they do not have chains and it is very snowy. I've just driven from Courchevel to Les Arcs in moderate snow. There were several cars sliding all over the place without chains.
Fitted to driving wheels only is perfectly acceptable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fantastic, thanks Rob.
I'll stock up on the Red Bull beforehand!
I suppsose the next question does anyone have any reccomendations for chains?
I tried a couple of companies on the wonderful auction site but they were unsure about them fitting to 18" 225/45 low profile tyres 
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It doesn't really matter whether or not they are actually a legal requirement. 90% of the time you will get away without snow chains but it can be very scary if you haven't got any during the other 10%. They don't cost a lot and , if you have looked on e-bay, for some reason they very rarely sell second hand; so you can probably get a bargain if you look. What size tyures? I have a couple of outgrown sets which I would love to flog! Size/ type requirement is often vehicle related (e.g. VW Sharan has tight clearance so you need small link chains.) 225/45 18 sounds like Audi A6 or the like - i.e. a car in snow chain vendor speak, rather than a 4x4. Car chains tend to be 9mm links, 4x4 tend to be 12mm or larger. Provided there is plenty of clearance around the tyre, there is no real reason why a heavy chain should not be used. The 4x4 chains tend to be applicable to larger rolling diameters. Try here: http://www.toys4cars.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1488_1489_2609&products_id=13067 I bought my latest set from them and they are fine.
Assuming you have front wheel drive then chains need to go on the front - has the advantage of improving stearing response. Rwd, put them on the back. 4wd, unless manufacturer specifies rear only then put them on front; you can put on all 4 wheels but that is expensive, bulky and unnecessary assuming it is just to get you out of trouble.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 4-02-08 18:02; edited 4 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| mattbrum wrote: |
| I suppsose the next question does anyone have any reccomendations for chains? |
I've bought from here before and they seemed to have a good range of stock (for a UK retailer). You can buy chains in most supermarkets and garages around the French resorts, but unusual size wheels might be tricky to find.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have driven to as far as Val T. The section up to St Martin should have little snow but it get more and thicker as you go up higher and deeper into the valley.
Snowchains should be regarded as an insurance policy because one can never be sure that the snow will not hit the roads near the time one plans to travel. Without them a driver may be caught in a dicy situation and that is not holiday to me. With a pair of snowchains one can dig out from most snow conditions.
It does not appear to me the road going up St Martin/Les Menuires/Val Thoren is a mountain pass standard that the police will be there to check snow chains but the snowheads with properties there should be able to tell. The road is long but has hardy any serious hairpin bend or steep gardient.
In recent years I always drive the full distance myself in every trip to the Alps as the wife refused to drive in the continent. Whenever I feel tired I just stop to take a 20 mintute nap and would be able to finish the rest of the journey. In earlier days we did drive through the night but there is little to be gained. Multiple drivers should be OK.
When we were younger, more stupid and poorer we would do 750miles in a day in Europe.
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| saikee wrote: |
| It does not appear to me the road going up St Martin/Les Menuires/Val Thoren is a mountain pass standard that the police will be there to check snow chains but the snowheads with properties there should be able to tell. |
Happens fairly often - I've seen it several times on approach roads to places such as Courchevel, Les Arcs, La Plagne, none of which are mountain passes.
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Thanks for all the info everyone...
The toys4cars site does stock my size too.. fantastic! Think it definately sounds better to be safe than angry and kicking the wheels!
Was a bit nervous to be honest having seen the roads upto Les Arcs - very heavy snowfall before we got there - it had taken the coaches 8 hours to get out of the resort to Lyon before we landed.
Having experienced the snow here on the odd occasion the wide tyres on my MG estate are useless, just snow ploughs essentially!
As for young, stupid and poorer.. fits our bill about right! (mortgages and all that boring stuff can get in the way  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| mattbrum wrote: |
Fantastic, thanks Rob.
I'll stock up on the Red Bull beforehand!
I suppsose the next question does anyone have any reccomendations for chains?
I tried a couple of companies on the wonderful auction site but they were unsure about them fitting to 18" 225/45 low profile tyres |
Couple of things, If you drive in France, it's illegal to drink Red Bull.
I use www.snowchains.co.uk Weissenfells clack n'go chains, they're excellent and that was on 245/45R18 wheels.
I've driven overnight, left Luton at 8pm and been in Les Arcs for 8am local time and driven also with an early morning UK start and been there for Tea time.
Chains are mandatory to be carried in high alpine areas of France.
Practice fitteing them before you go, take latex disposable gloves because you get rotten fitting them, a decent torch, warning triangle and a hi-vis vest, plus your mandatory spare bulbs, both parts of your driving licence, vehicle reg doc, insurance cert, first aid kit, spare glasses if the driver wears specs.
Winter tyres are a good idea also.
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I think it's illegal to have Red Bull in France, whether you drive or not.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Illegal to drink Red Bull?!
Good job they didnt catch us on the last Le Mans trip 
Off topic i know but any suggestions for Ski's for a begginer who can manage a decent red run? Dont know if i can be bothered with the Ski hire crush again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We've driven to the Three Valleys three times now (La Tania, Mottaret and Meribel Village). Setting off from Canterbury, we have a massive advantage that we can be on the road in Calais in under 50 minutes, all going well.
So we normally leave home around 06H00 and on average can be in a bar with a cold one by 16H00. Had snow chains in the car every time but only needed them once, when we were in sight of the chalet on the drive up Police there insisting we put them on. To be fair we NEEDED them on the return trip to come down the mountain so saved doing it early on morning of departure!
Ed
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Amazed at the Red Bull comment, but a quick Google would seem to confirm.
Have driven down in one-day several times to 3V - always around 8 hours from Calais to Resort.
Have often seen police stopping cars and enforcing the chains rule
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You know it makes sense.
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| mattbrum wrote: |
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I'll stock up on the Red Bull beforehand!
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Its illegal to drink red bull in France - certainly when driving 
We regularly drive from Calais to Plan Peisey (near Les Arcs) It took 8.5hrs last Sat night. Never done it in convoy though. I'd agee with Rob about chains.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just booked a 23:00 crossing on the friday so based on the comments here should be in resort for about 10:00ish with a couple of splash and dash stops!
Extra days sleepy skiing, or possibly a couple of cheeky halves as a reward!
Can anyone recall how much you get robbed for the tolls approx?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From what I remember, about 80 euros each way.
Ed
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just not trying to taint myself on here alreay.
I was being refered to as Matt "ill see how its goes" by the end of the week! Convince everyone it wont be a heavy night and they will be fine.. and low and behold its a 4am session again 
Makes for an interesting skiing style.. ragged springs to mind!
80 Euros - bargain for the distance really....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've just noticed, you're a Brummie. I used to work for a little car company there, I wonder how they are getting on now. They certainly had a bright future when I left in 2000!
All the time I worked there I didn't hear a single cliche. I would therefore expect better of you!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ah well I'm in Longbridge, and i think i am the only person that supported their products.... probably foolishly, but they have served me well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Despite the MG75shooting break? (Those nice German chaps used to get vey upset when I talked about 5-series estates!) Here is a real dull blokes' link which placates ex BMC people: http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/
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Well 2 x Late Mini Cooper Sports Packs, 1x MGF, 1x MGTF160 (fun and handled with springs instead of sludge)
At present MG ZT-T 54 plate with 90K hard hard miles.. also 1963 Mini
The link is good, looked that up before... quite sad eh!
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Three weeks ago we would have needed chains driving from St Martin to Les Menuires but managed without only becuase our hire car was a 4x4 with fat winter tyres. We heard that some people without chains had taken several hours to drive the 10km or so distance
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Matt - we drove to Les Menuires last Feb and are due to go again in 2 weeks. On the way down we stayed overnight in Lyon and did the final 3 hours the next morning.
On the way back we did it in 1 hit - left Les Menuires at 8.00am (French time ) and arrived home (Bournemouth) 8.00pm. This included waiting a bit for the chunnel.
On the subject of Snow Chains - I bought both chains and Snowsocks for our Golf GTI. However, we have just sold the Golf and swapped the chains for some to fit our new car. I still have the Snowsocks and are about to put them on ebay. I could do you a deal on them if you are interested. Let me know your tyre size and I will check to see if they will fit (if your interested!).
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I am doing the same trip next week for the second time, last year didn't need the the snowchains but did have them ready, the tolls where about 60e from memory, this year we are going to try a different route through beliguim luxumborg and enter in france lower down going through nancy, dijon, to try and reduce tolls and hope fully the roads will be clear when we get there, can let you know more in a few weeks
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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That would be great if you could let me know how the route worked out, mileage/tolls etc.
Just order my snow chains - just got to fix the rear light cluster now some idiot smashed it!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I thought the optimum winter tyres were narrow?
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I thought the optimum winter tyres were narrow?
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, Possibly, but it all depends whether the summer tyres they supplanted where fatter still! Also, you are quoting bloke-speak, whereby simple reference to "winter tyres" or "whimpy thin winter tyres" might call ones virility into question.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The problem with tyres with a wider profile is that its always more likely to slide over the surface rather than bite or push the snow out of the way. (Same as skis)
The problem is if your really keen you then need spare rims etc etc. More than likely not worth the hassle imo.
Learning car control wouldnt go amiss having watched most people in the uk drive on the pathetic smattering of snow we have!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| having watched most people in the uk drive on the pathetic smattering of snow we have! |
they're not the only ones - plenty of French drivers end up in ditches, or piles of snow, too. We pulled one out two weeks ago - he was in a Porsche Cayenne....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Indeed, watching some of the french drivers pass our coach up to Les Arcs was scary!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not wishing to miss an opportunity to rant about French driving standards, I always find it curious that on route Nationales, or in villages and towns (Paris and some other cities excepted) French drivers are pretty helpful and considerate. However, show them a road which is really dangerous for some reason (e.g. any Autoroute, snow or heavy rain) and they suddenly see it as their national duty to behave appaulingly. On Autoroutes when you are in lane 1 and advancing on the vehicle in front, you think about pulling out into lane 2 (when usually in the UK any driver whose path you might be intending to enter would flash you to let you out) any French vehicle in lane 2 within 10 km appears to accelerate to make certain that you don't get in and thus beat him to Lyon bu 3 seconds!
In all the other countries I have driven in, the only one where drivers generally give me any confidence that they are not putting my life in imminent danger is Germany. I would say though that I believe the general driving standards exhibited in UK are the best. It's probably because there's not really enough space for all the cars.
The worst standards I have seen were South Korea, but they had only had a driving test for about 15 years and private car ownership had increased from 20,000 to 2,000,000 in the previous five years!
Anyway, how do you spell Xenophobia?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I am amazed about red bull. I have just put a crate in the car for the 13 hr drive tomorrow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For the Red Bull I remember a certain bar/hotel in Morzine importing it on transfer runs to Geneva for their Tequila and Red chasers.
: chunder smiley :
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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cmyers_uk, I think that Red Bull is illegal in France, period, so chuck a blanket over it.
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mattbrum, For tolls and other costs try the viamichellin web site.
One way costs Calais to Les Arcs currently shows:- Costs 109.71 GBP (Toll costs: 38.92 GBP Petrol costs: 70.79 GBP ) Seems reasonablly accurate to me, you can adjust fuel cost and mpg on the web site.
Spyderman's, Advice is spot on.
The Natives web site also gives good motoring preparation advice.
I just returned from 3V's to Calais, single driver, 9 hrs, 2 stops one for fuel the other a fuel inc 45 min rest stop. It was a very good journey though, no delays. Kept within speed limits (just). On the way there driving thriough the night can be very tiring, you will have already had a long day before you commence. IMHO, you feel you need to use Red Bull or similar, take a break instead. On an outbound overnighter I usually get an earlier crossing, so I'm on the other side by 7:00pm latest. This then allows me do a pit stop at a Ibis, F1 or similar to have a few hours kip, and will still be in resort for an early lift. This allows 12 hours, the majority of the time the road are very quiet. Remember if you are trying to get 'up the hill' on a Saturday morning, there may still be delays caused by other, less prepared drivers.
Good choice about getting chains, in a Chainage area if the police stop you and you dont have them, they will turn you back. I got mine in the UK from snowchains.co.uk, 4 trips, used once. I now consider them paid for!
Good luck.
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| Quote: |
| IMHO, you feel you need to use Red Bull or similar, take a break instead. |
advice based on research is to take a caffeinated drink - Red Bull (yes, it is illegal in France), coffee etc. THEN, during the 20 minutes it takes to have effect, take a short nap. Not longer, or you get drowsy. THEN take a walk around the car a few times to take in some fresh air. Then you can drive again. But if you have to do it again, you need to stop properly. I have a CD which was produced to talk you through this process, with useful "white noise" for the sleeping bit, and an alarm to wake you up. It worked quite well.
However, it also says that for some chemical reason sugar can reduce the effect of caffeine. So, no sugar in the coffee and if it's Red Bull, the sugar-free variety, which is quite disgusting.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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so why I wonder is Red Bull illegal when driving in France? Just curious..
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Villz, Red Bull: The sale of Red Bull is prohibited in some countries, usually due to its taurine content or its alleged high level of caffeine. However, many countries which formerly banned Red Bull (and similar energy drinks) have revised their legislation to allow drinks containing Taurine or higher amounts of caffeine, including Switzerland (1994) and Finland (2005). As of 2007, Red Bull remains prohibited in Denmark, Norway, France, Uruguay and Iceland, but is now allowed in Canada.
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FAQ
