 Poster: A snowHead
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I have just returned from a week at Flaine.
I was horrified by the speed people were moving at on the hill - boarders and skiers alike. Obviously our first day was a Sunday which has more weekend people on the go.
I saw ESF instructors exasperated at people cutting their clients up.
My husband is a gentle parallel skier who hadn't skied for a couple of years so was a bit nervous. I kept about four or five metres behind him and slightly above hime to give him a bit of protection - people were coming between us!
As for me, I'm a ski instructor, that is my day job, I work on a dry slope. Previously I have taught on the snow though in Italy and the USA. I have skied on snow every season for years and years without fail until last year when my Dad died early on in the season which kind of mucked up the rest of the season as I couldn't leave Mum.
The speed some people are going at on busy slopes, blue runs on a weekend is crazy. Even when runs were quiet, it just seemed to get worse. There is a minority who just don't seem to care about what could happen to others. They are not in control, far from it.
Yes carving is fun, but it can't be done all the time that is for sure. I love to crank big wide fast carves up with the best of them and I was but only if conditions allowed it.
But then some of these people don't know what their technique is.
Are people just being lazy? Do people not care about themselves or others?
On the last two days, I nearly got taken out by a skier which I have on video, it was my avoiding action that saved the day. The skier was totally out of control coming from behind. As it was, he had a nasty crash. The last day a snowboarder nearly got me and again it was down to me to take the avoiding action. Both these guys came from behind and couldn't anticipate and control their speed. Good job I was switched on.
Very, very scary.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowaddict, I went to Flaine a couple of years ago and it was like that then especially with the locals at the weekend. Even the Instructors were bad, one actually broke my cousins arm by carelessly doing a 360 jump on a crowded piste without checking.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowaddict, what is annoying is when idiots hit the blue runs as if it is a race training run, even though it may well be marked as a 'slow zone'. It is ok if someone is going fast in a corridor at the edge of the piste ........
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The last time I worked in America, it was becoming an issue then, but I thought it was something to do with America as a lot of instructors were commenting on it. That was in 2002. I had tons of time on snow in 2006. One trip was in America and I was recovering from a knee injury so was stuck to lower grade runs and didn't have a problem at all really with other users. Sure there were a few, but no more than normal.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rayscoops - exactly!
I nearly used the term race run earlier on, or something like that. But that was exactly how it was.
There is so much room on a mountain and a run. Why? I love using the bits at a side of a run as there is often nice bits of snow in there and they are quiet...most times!
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is it just Flaine that this is a problem? Im sure it isnt.
However I havent expeienced this as a problem.
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I don't think it is Flaine at all.
I think the problem is on the increase everywhere to be honest. Maybe some places are worse than others.
Look at Switzerland putting in the speed guns.
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Christopher, It happens at a lot of resorts, more so at weekends when the locals come up. Tignes was a bit mental in places last week, LDA seemed better apart from a few idiots on blades, but Flaine was particularily bad from what I remember.
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In my experience a blue slope is more dangerous than a red one or a black one.
I rather take my time to tackle a deserted black than competing for space with skiers racing at a blue slope.
When people race in a red or a black slope they are often of a decent standard unlikely to be out of control.
Flaine is one of the busiest French resorts I know, especially at junction points between Morillon, Flaine, Sameon and La Carroz. Porte du Soleil's Les Gets and Avoriaz is a better bet as they are almost next door to the Grand Massif. For some reasons skiers in Porte Du Soleil do not have the same haste as those in the Grand Massif.
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if these resorts have dangerous bottlenecks or loons racing around, i suggest taking your business elsewhere
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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These weren't bottlenecks but wide open runs.
Hard to go elsewhere when you're booked for a week.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Speed controls are a slippery slope, surely the health and safety nazis control enough of our lives. I agree out of control skiers are a menace but console myself with the thought that hopefully they'll still be out of control when they next meet a tree.
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You know it makes sense.
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snowaddict, didn't help that the pistes were hard packed and shiny (at least last Sunday). Fast under any circumstances. The link from les Carroz was extraordinary - saw three people completely out of control slide head first top to bottom of some run (the second IIRC out of les Carroz). We were between piste most of the day so didn't notice anything else too untoward - but the conditions certainly didn't make me want to be anywhere near a piste.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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There were several Flaine-based ski instructors (independents) around Les Saisies last week, on very quiet slopes with their early intermediate groups. It's a bit of a drive, but apparently worth it (I spoke to one, who said the snow was better here too).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ordhan, But weren't you one complaining the other day about not seeing a skier/boarder dressed all in white when you came over a roller at speed?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowaddict, I agree with your concerns - I recounted a story on this thread : http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=34882 recently where the problem was reckless skiing on a cat track that I still have flashbacks about. A twelve stone skiier at 30 + mph (or 50+ if you believe some other recent threads)attached to one or two steel edges can create a major impact - particulalry if its a child that is halting their progress. I'd heard that in the U.S. confiscation of ski pass by piste patrol can happen? I'd support it for some of the really outrageous on piste behaviour. It might make the more borderline headcases think twice too. Off piste - every man for himself but as others say I don't think its an issue.
Also, my last two trips have been Val D'Isere and Flaine and I thought there were similar issues at each - my near miss happened to be at VDI.
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Some snowheads here may bite my head off but I don't find speed a common problem in Scandinavia, Swiss and Austrian resorts. This may be due to more piste and less skiers in them.
I would also say in up market resorts like Zermatt, Lech and Ischgl skiers are more civilised and more careful with speed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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same thing happened to us in whistler last year one weekend. there were loads of people and some were bombing down the slopes.
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snowaddict, it happens everywhere, is my pet hate (snow related) and the main reason I took up off-piste skiing.
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A lot of people may not notice the speed but if you are with a group travelling at a slower pace the you relly get an idea of how fast and close people are coming. I just dont like that these people think they are so amazing with their poor technique, they couldnt race down a steep red/black like a pro but seem to think powering down a blue with loads of beginners on it shows them to be superior to anyone who may be watching!
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It's very much akin to being on the roads, to be honest. You get those who feel comfortable at 85/90mph who harass and dodge around those who they feel are going too slowly. They would have a limited chance of stopping/reacting to an unexpected manouevre in much the same way as a quick boarder/skier would. I'll only go fast when it's really wide open and visibility is spot on. I'm really hyper-conscious of the speed of others when I'm on the slopes with my daughters, particularly as they are so blissfully ignorant of what's going on around them half the time...
It's just a natural progression of society as far as I can see. It basically comes down to a lack of basic empathy, respect and tolerance of those that want to enjoy the slopes in a different way. I'm actually against the idea of speed guns (apart from in really packed/beginner areas) as they're too black & white... "sorry sir, you were 3 mph over the limit, you're off the mountain." Whereas a common sense warning system with teams (at least two people to give safety and/or perspective) of mountain enforcers picking out "inappropriate speed" (which could be, let's face it, 10 mph on nursery slopes or crowded areas) or otherwise dangerous behaviour could use a portable card reader/writer to "endorse" someone's lift pass to the extent whereby people could get warned, banned for the rest of the day, two days, entire week, entire resort, whatever...
Of course, this should also be extended to the equivalent of the granny doing 40mph on the outside lane of the motorway whereby inappropriately-skilled people could receive similar sanctions for being on fast slopes (yeah, obviously sometimes you take the wrong turn, but that's why I'm advocating a portable card reader and warning system) and endangering those who are of a better standard.
As with roads, it isn't just speed per se that's the problem, it's inappropriate speed for the particular circumstances surrounding that particular mountain user and is quite closely linked to the IQ, or lack thereof, of the person concerned. You can't have the "standard" set by timid skiers any more than you can have by extreme speed freaks, it's all down to where you are, your skill level, what's around you, visibility, busy-ness of slopes and so on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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carled, I agree antirely with your analogy. On the roads you generally don't have drivers coming through 20 mph speed limits outside schools at 50 mph every few minutes (or even seconds) - you do on a some green slopes that are run offs / lift links from bigger runs.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I also find it threatening... and although my knoweledge and technique is improving a bit .. so also the quest for more thrills/speed .
In Switzerland ( here) I see many warning signs and 30 km/h speed limits .. but never enforced afaics. Some of the 'racing' going on from the incompetent is breathtaking ... and not for its beauty.
I dont like 'controls' but time for 10km/h in Beginner areas and a restriction on all blues as well ..... and a few lost passes and bans will soon slow more ( if not all) down. Not to mention a 'test' on the basics of piste etiquette ...
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A guy was killed here at the weekend. Going very fast, he lost control, left the piste and hit a tree. A tragic loss. Cases like this should be used to highlight the real dangers of skiing beyond your ability.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have a tenancy to wait at the top of a particularly busy piste and have a snack/ drink/ take a wee wee etc until the piste is clearer and I can properly tank down without having to worry about others getting in the way. I'd rather not have to dodge in and out all the time.
I took out a snowboarder a few years ago (High-5 anyone?!  ) and since then, I've been so much more conscious to others, especially where pistes merge together.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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It wasn't a busy week - thank goodness.
People are ski-ing and boarding beyond their capabilities and don't care.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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An idiot took out four of my class on the beginners slope in Romania last week.
We had just finished our ski down and were nicely lined up to one side at the bottom listening to our instructor's comments before heading off to the lift again. He came through us like a freight train, doing at least 20mph, my wife was taken out first..clipped on the shoulder. He then went over the back of the skis of the guy next to me, catching one of his poles (bent almost double) and pulling him down. The force of this swung him into the two at the botom of the line.
My wife suffers from a slipped disc. If he'd caught her full on he could have caused some real damage, I shudder to think what the consequenses would have been if he'd hit one of the many children around.
Like I said, this was on the BEGINNER slope, all of 500m long and very crowded. Our instructor grabbed his skis off of him ( he was a russian on a day pass, hire skis and boots) and swapped his poles for the damaged ones, then got on the radio to try to get him taken off the slope. We had seen lots of 'cops' on the slope the previous days but, for some reason, none could be found.
In the end, we left this twit with a couple of instructors and carried on with our lesson. We saw the same guy - new poles - skiing again within the hour, thankfully going a lot slower now, and it was obvious looking at him that he was not a good skiier.
Conditions were perfect on the mountain, if he wanted to ski fast why not go up there where the chances are the only damage he would do would be to himself?
I prefer the reds, much wider, much less crowded, plenty of time to spot the idiots and pause on one side to watch the inevitable.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowaddict, Agree entirely. I would expect people (who can and can do so in control) to ski fast on uncrowded pistes and pistes where 'beginners' shouldn't be. I get very upset, often vocally so with the types you are talking about haring down green and blue slopes, particularly when they whip past/into the small inexperienced kids that I often ski with....(and my son who is a damn sight more able to avoid a potential collision than many - but THEY don't know that), and have they all forgotten how scary it is to passed seemingly inches away at what appears to be a million miles an hour! IMO green slopes and the blues on which beginners regularly 'hang out' are NEVER the slopes to be attacking at full pelt no matter how competent a skier you are. Though how one makes that happen..........?
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i do find it slightly ironic when I see some guy/girl on skis in the crouch/tuck position, going as fast as the can, on a blue or green. To me that is worse than someone carving down really quick
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I have occasionally, on leaving the off piste, been led by guides at great speed weaving down crowded slopes between eratic slower skiers. Although we were all good skiers the decisions we were making in order to keep up were split-second, and though I've never hit another skier I was doubtful if we should have been skiing that fast.
On a relatively empty piste, where you can leave good margins and have plenty of time to make decisions (and are in good control) I can see no problem about speed - however fast. But you must be ready for skiers to suddenly do daft things and take avoiding action. I often overtake by going along the edge of the piste, ready to go off-piste if necessary. (Often the snow is best there too.)
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What annoys me is people on the blue and red runs that weave from side to side taking up all the piste.
I try and go fast through these sections so as to get them out the way as quickly as possible. I don't understand why on a flat bit of piste, why someone needs to go as slowly as possible. Go straight and get onto a decent slope and practice your technique there.
And yes, I have crashed into some people when going down the piste, mostly because they have turned into my path at the last minute and I couldn't correct in time. But every time they have been fine, and I have always stuck around to make sure they're alright, I have even one a drink once. I always control my speed to the most when little children are about.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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buckers,
I am interested to know what make you think the piste is designed to go straight down?
Just like driving a car the slow driver in the front can possibly hit you if he is going forward. Only you can avoid a crash to hit him at the back if you moderate the speed, stay away from the drink and treat other road users having the same right as you on the road.
I do use the full width if I want to slow down and ease the stress in my legs. There is no law against one to slow down to rest oneself. There are many old skiers on the slope, especially in Switzerland and Austria. You will do well to stay in France to practice your speed.
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I didn't mean all pistes, but on the almost flat slopes that lead you from one piste to another, there is no need to weave from side to side and take up the whole of the piste, making it nigh on impossible for somebody else to safely pass by.
Using your analogy of a road, imaging if on a motor-way a car weaved from side to side across all the lanes, it would be impossible and dangerous to pass, unless you do it at speed where by you take the least time passing them, and risk them crashing into you.
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FAQ
and absolutley clattered me from behind I was flying when he hit me so he must have been blasting. Thankfully I wear helmet & body armour for just such an event 
)
BUT - This is the main reason we, and our friends, have visited La Rosiere so often during the school holiday periods. I was in Tignes last week and wouldn't dream of taking our big bunch of kids to the Espace Killy in a peak week. Last week there were a great number of high speed skiers blasting around with no consideration for the safety or well being of others.
but that was a plain silly place to stand out of site from the uphill skiers 
if the person doing it is COMPETENT, SENSIBLE & IN CONTROL these are important in this discussion
