Carving

A snowHead

Hi guys,

Could do with some help with getting this carving thing sorted!

I’d say I’m a lower level intermediate (being skiing about 3 years, done about 4 weeks aboard and lots of trips to the snowdome, can get down most red’s quite easily, and tried a few blacks before) and can ski parallel (skid) turns well. I want to move away from skid turns and learn how to do proper (i.e. hip scraping on the snow!) carving turns.

I have read loads of books, website, and watched lots of videos to try to learn how to do them. So, armed with this information I went to the snowdome this weekend with a view to putting theory into practise, but it did not go to well! Puzzled

I was starting off by standing facing down the slope using my poles to hold me still and then roll on to the edge of my skis and then rolling forward by letting go of my poles from the snow. Most of the time, the skis did turn without me doing anything, but it felt really unstable and unnatural. I can’t even imagine doing it a at speed! Shocked

It seem’s really strange just relying on the ski’s to turn me and its hard relying on the inside ski and not just the outside one.

I would really like to get this sorted before I go to Courchevel on the 19th Jan. Any one got any tips or tricks?!

Thanks guys!

Matt snowHead

A snowHead

you may find it easier when you have a bit more space than you get in a dome - a bit of speed really helps! use of the inside ski is a bit of a can of worms. i wouldn't worry too much about that at this stage - just concentrate on the outside ski and allow the inside ski to follow you around

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

mf-racing, Once you get up some speed ride them like a bike. What I mean is use your body weight on the inside of the curve to oppose/balance the centrifugal force generated by the turn. Get lessons to get the proper position, I have described the basic bit.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

mf-racing, start on something with a really tight sidecut like a skiboard (or snowblade). This will enable you to get the feel of carving at relatively low speeds. Then gradually move to a bigger sidecut for faster wider carves.

If you really want to do hip scraping carves though it might be better to take up snowboarding.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

mf-racing, You will need carving skis lots of space and some speed to get the carving going ok. You should be ok when you try it in the resort

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Deffinately more speed required. I don't think starting to move with the skis already on edge is ever going to feel very nice.

Something to try - on a relatively empty flat piste, start to run straight down the hill and then gently point your inside knee towards the direction you are turning ie if you are wanting to turn right then point your right knee to the right. This will place your inside ski onto it's edge and the outside ski will follow of it's own accord. Just do the one turn and hold it until you start to point back up the hill. As you progess start to think about weighting your out side ski at the same time.

I found that when I first started to carve I would start to soon and both skis would carve a different line, usually one ski hitting the other. For me, starting to move the inside knee first helps to keep both skis on the same track.

After all it is free

I must admit I'm really confused about this whole "carving" thing. Whenever I read about it I always think "hang on, that's what I've been doing right from the start, isn't it?", but then all the time people talk about it like it's something you learn after you've already done a month or two on the snow.

I tend to initiate turns pretty much solely by weight shifting, not by steering the skis (at least, I don't think so...). Am I carving or not?! Maybe I'll never know!

Puzzled

You will be getting a clear message from riverman's and other's postings: if you are starting off down the flow-line, you need to go straight for a good few metres to get some speed up before starting to tilt your skis. A good exercise for you is to set up more across a slope and start a traverse, feet apart and your skis tilted. Keep the skis at the same angle, let them run and they will take you on a smooth curve till you stop partially uphill. Look back at your tracks: two neatly railed lines in the snow and you're getting it; blurry bits show if you have skidded. As you get the hang of it, gradually move your start towards the flow-line.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Paulio, Imagine you were riding a bike around a city that has trams. Imagine you got your wheel stuck in one of the tram tracks and the track heads of around a corner. That feeling of being stuck in a rail is the sort of sensation you get when carving.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

Well, I'd have thought that working on tilting both skis together was a better way of stopping A framing than going the opposite way with your uphill ski on an edge and your downhill ski flatter. That way you start banking. I just can't get my head round the notion that you "place the inside ski on an edge and the outside ski will follow of it's own accord." How do you resist the centrifugal force that Dypcdiver, mentioned? Banking on an upper edge? How do you initiate a turn in this way, not from the flowline but more usually from the end of one arc into another when you are going more across the slope?

Maybe I'm making too much out of a wee trick krekeg uses momentarily to help him, but I'm anxious that while it works for him, it isn't good advice to mf-racing, who is wanting to start developing carving skills.

You know it makes sense.

I think there are a multitude of ways to describe the same thing. Some ways click with some people and not with others. It was when I read phase 3 of this website http://www.techsupportforskiers.com/shapeshifter.htm, this website http://www.youcanski.com/en/coaching/parallel_shins.htm and after watching the Warren Smith DVD's that I started to place emphasis on the inside knee. The Warren Smith DVD's teach you to grab just the inside knee and pull it towards the corner. For me it was my urika moment. I don't end up over weighting the inside ski (I know how that feels) but it does help me to maintain parrallel shins and consistent edge angle.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Interesting linkskrekeg. The writer in the first one is talking about consciously rolling the inside knee and letting the other one follow and I am with that - it was your reference to the outside ski following of its own accord that bothered me (sounded altogether too passive and imbalance). I think it does help to be think consciously of moving the inside knee and to seek a physical awareness of the movement because that is the knee that is liable to be left behind. I reckon that the exercise described there is intended to help synchronised movement rather than early movement (on the basis that if you think you are doing it early you have a better chance of doing it at the same time!). I was embarrassed a few weeks ago on a training course to see from a video that my shins were not parallel (it's so easy to be lazy and allow bad habits to creep up on you, ) and had to do precisely that - concentrate consciously on the inner knee. I was also aware, and the second link mentions this, that my weight was not well centred - which will tend to make it more difficult to keep the skis evenly tilted. (By the way, a double pole plant can help to reassert a square on, centred position if things get out of synch.)

All of which is way beyond what you were asking about, mf-racing. Don't get hung up on theory and analysis: get out there, get a lesson and do it. And especially, have fun doing it. Smile

A snowHead

The best carving lesson, and to be honest the only one I've had, was from a mad Slovenian instructor in Austria who didn't say much but just went like a bat out of hell. Our sole instruction was to keep up Shocked

It worked a treat. We never had time to think about technique or what we were doing with our skis but the only way to stay on his line was to carve. Somehow it worked! Great fun but very scary.

A snowHead

www.sofaskischool.com do a video which I thought looked good. It was a snowhead who first brought it to my attention, sorry can't remember who. Anyhow I thought it made sense Very Happy

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

krekeg, To follow the Instructor at a good speed is I would agree is a big help in carving turns . As soon as i could keep up he would go a bit faster and also tighten the turn . Only works in A 1 to 1 situation.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Don't use the inside ski when you first learn to carve, you'll be going too slow and and it won't work , get as much weight as poss on the inside edge of the outside ski and keep the inside ski flat. What part of Yorkshire are you, possibly can show you. If your a decent skier should have you carving (albeit long radius ones) in half an hour or so.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

When going slow it is very difficult to use the outsside edge of the ski. We're talking about people trying to carve for the first time.

After all it is free

How about trying this...
pick up your inside ski and tip it into the turn. Your outside leg will tip with it.

(not suggesting it's the only way to carve, but it's one way to get going on a one footed carve which isn't Harb to do.)

Wear The Fox Hat, that's far too Harb for me to do. Isn't there an easier way to do it?

Wink

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Thanks for all the tips guys, I might go to the snowdome on Wednesday night and give it ago again, if not i might just have to wait untill i'm in France...

Skidonald - I'm based in Huddersfield, but i'm over in Castleford SD quite a bit, if your ever there?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

ccl, it sounds like skidonald is suggesting something like a Chinese snowplough. I personally don't like that as it starts getting you into an A-frame mentality that you'll need to undo later. I much prefer the progression your posts describe: first essentially a curved traverse, then on repeated circuits progressively point more down the hill at the start which turns it more into a single turn into the hill (also using the hands on knees to stop the tendency to A-frame) and then later into linked turns - but I'm not an instructor, so that can't be right Wink

.

snow reports

If you look around you will see very few people doing good carved turns. Hints and tips wont get you close, I agree withrob@rar, get some quality instruction.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Here's something you can practice at home - even in bed!!! Lying on your back with your knees flexed & feet together....

1. Move your right foot out several inches to the right	This puts your foot on edge as you would be when turning left. However your left foot is still flat and you are in the "A-frame" position
2. Move your left knee several inches to the left	This puts your left foot on edge, and your shins are now parallel with both feet edged & hip-width apart. Bingo - this is how it should feel on the slope
3. Go skiing	If you need help to get out of the A-frame, ski without you poles for a few runs and (if turning left as above) use your left hand to pull your left knee into the correct position

A snowHead

I'm not talking about chinese snowploughs, but I am talking about the first few attempts to carve and complicating things with A Frame talk etc is confusing for the first timer. Have people forgot however simple things seem now, it wasn't so easy the first time. You only need one leg to carve so get that leg working right then move on, keep it simple, we're only talking a few runs here, which is all it takes to feel that carving sensation. I am not trying to teach people to carve with their inside ski flat, I'm getting them to concentrate on their outer ski(the one doing all the work) first, anyone on here who is still learning will surely agree, one thing at a time is easy, bombard them with info it all goes to pot.

A snowHead

And then there's Harald's way : http://www.harbskisystems.com/olb3.htm

I have a friend who has sold his soul to this technique of developing to carving from skidding!

Would anyone else recommend this to mf-racing? snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I've only read one of Harb's (many) books - but, on-balance, I think it probably helped rather than hindered.

Trouble with the book was that this "phantom move" could have all been explained in one paragraph (as it is in kewhoward's link). Yet Harb has managed squeeze a whole book out of it!

I've ended up adapting the "phantom move" slightly to suit my own skiing: I don't tend to ski with my feet close together (as Harb recommends in his books), and I don't think it's necassary to completely lift the new inside ski before you tilt it.

Certainly worth trying though, and it's certainly helped me with my carving.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

http://www.sofaskischool.com/Carving%20Lesson.htm Still think it is easier to watch someone demonstrating rather than just reading.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

ickabodblue, thanks for this - just had a quick look at work (with the sound down!) and it's helped me think about it - has mf-racing had chance to look at it too?

You'll need to Register first of course.

kewhoward, Don't think so, that's why I've posted it twice. As I said earlier I got it from another snowHead

but can't remember who to give them the credit.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

So we'll wait to see if it helps but I can't quite imagine trying to do this at Cas unless you hired the whole place to yourself Laughing

After all it is free

Thanks guys, i have seen that vid before and I thought it was really good. That’s where i got the idea of starting off with the skis or edge and just going down the slope letting them turn you. I'm not too sure if its worth me going to Cas to try again, I’ll have a think tonight. If i do I’ll let you all know. snowHead

To summarise, after reading all these comments i think i will try, just doing it with my outside ski first, then just with my inside and then both together! I now realise that i need to get some more speed up as well Very Happy

Keep it coming!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

mf-racing, I've sent you a PM.

Help!!

Carving

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Bend ze Knees