Skiing with a fear of heights

A snowHead

I appear to have touched a raw nerve in another thread when the subject started to drift off-topic to include discussing fear of heights.

Whilst I like to consider myself to be reasonably empathetic, I find it very difficult to understand and therefore empathise with what appears to me to be an irrational phobia.

Rather than allow that thread to drift further off-topic, I thought I'd start another asking how people cope with such a fear whilst enjoying a pursuit that involves spending a considerable amount of time off the ground.

My wife has quite a fear of skiing any pistes that have a steep drop-off (regardless of their width) yet is quite happy to take a chair-lift back down the mountain and appeared completely unfazed when I took her on the up-and-over chair in Val d'Isère.

A snowHead

Isn't a characteristic of irrational phobias is that they are irrational? I'm not comfortable being off the ground, although I'm much better than I used to be. On my first ski trip, to Andalo, there was a deeply unpleasant bucket lift back down the mountain at the end of the day as the (only?) piste to the village was too steep for complete beginners. One of the reasons that I was so determined to make good progress with my skiing was that I desperately wanted to avoid that bucket lift. By the end of that first week I was one of only four kids (of 60+) who was allowed to ski down. I don't enjoy uplift (or downlift Wink

) but not to an extent that I'd take up chess and abandon skiing. I also try to be sympathetic with people who share the same irrational fear as me.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

We have a friend who is fine in a gonola, but terrified when forced onto chairlifts.

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Going up isn't too bad, but coming down - no thanks.
It's not as bad when seated in a bubble/gondola, but if I'm getting into a gondola that is standing room only, I'll either want to be at the front, or in the middle - preferrably not standing at the side, and definitely not standing at the back.

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NickB, I would think all the fears you list are not irrational at all but are perfectly normal. I'm no psychiatrist but I would imagine that the solution is to expose oneself to the situation as much as possible in order that the phobia decreases. But, like I say, what would I know...

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NickB, I am definitely one of those who has a fear of heights but enjoys skiing.

I can cope with gondolas and cable cars fine, as they are fully enclosed.

I can cope with chairlifts reasonably well so long as the safety bar is in place, but the moment I feel there is nothing to stop me slipping off I get quite scared if there is any significant height between me and the surface below. The worst part of skiing for me is almost always the point at which you have to lift the bar before getting off the chair.

I'm not sure I would cope well with going down a chairlift, although I have been on one or two which have a short downhill stretch - fortunately not high off the surface.

After all it is free

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NickB, No, I find tat more exposure does help, but only in the short term.

I definitely find myself more willing to raise the safety bar later in the week than at the start, but it is just as bad again at the start of the next trip.

And it is the same at home when I have to a job involving ladders. The first time up I really hate it, but by the time I have been doing it a few hours I am a lot more comfortable, although never happy about it.

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You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I love skiing AND have a fear of heights. Those who do not have FoH do find it difficult to understand but that makes it no less real for the sufferer. It is not irrational to worry about plunging down a steep slope and dying at the foot of it. the difficulty arrises when one's perception of the danger is out of proportion to everyonelse's. wink

Completely eradicating the fear is expecting too much , but, as with all fears, we can develop techniques and stratagies to cope with it.

On a red slope I only look ahead to my next turn. If i look much more further down slope than that I feel the panic rise and I tend to freeze. There is nothing shameful about that, it just means that I have to ski in a discipled way or not at all. And I love skiing so I make the best of it. Chair lifts can be a problem, but I tend to close my eyes until I feel the safety bar being lifted.

Roll on next week when I get yet another chance to scare myself sh*tless snowHead

A snowHead

I'm not very keen on heights I can fall from (and have a vivid imagination!), but skied in LDA in summer, on the glacier, so had to get lifts up and down. Jandri Express was fine. Rather less keen on the chairlift sections, but not too bad as it was a huge chairlift (8 people) so I could hold on tight while someone else (instructor) dealt with the bar. Think bar was also more automated/locked. Was less keen on smaller lifts (like the one to the summer luge), especially without automatic bars, if my companions were slow with the bar.

Found the alternative route down (when Jandri was closed after a nice big storm) a little less like fun, as it involved smaller lifts, an old cable car (packed!) and a lot of hiking between lift stations carrying stuff. Also, as Jandri had been stopped for the best part of an hour, and then was very slow and infrequent, I had visions of sitting on the lift for quite a while.

Was intending going to the adventure park in Venosc (with lots of rope things) as an effort to break the fear, but my OH was too sore from learning to snowboard on a glacier and I was fairly stiff as well

A snowHead

I suffer from vertigo, but only when standing close to the edge of shear drops. I totally lose my balance and feel a strange urge to lean forward and fall off! But if I know I'm safe, then heights don't bother me at all. Chairlifts are fine, aeroplanes are fine, steep ski slopes are fine. Maybe my fear is more rational? i.e I only get scared if there's a real danger I could fall.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I have a fear of heights and of flying. Having said that I have flown at least twice a year and skiied for the last 25 years. Just have to live with it and put it to one side.

My fear of heights is of a sheer drop. Anything else is no problem. Will go down the steepest slopes and only be worried about ice!!

My worst moment, having to hang backwards over a 150 feet precipice with someone holding my legs. I did kiss the blarney stone though.

My attitude is fight it, but don't look down on those who can't

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I don't have a fear of heights but the one time I came down a chairlift all but gave me the screaming abdabs Shocked

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Going down is as bad for me as going up. It's dangle-itus - I don't like the 'swing' factor - if they were rigid I think they would easier to cope with - though I accept that they probably need to swing to resist the wind - I guess if they don't bend they'll break. One of my goals this year is to at least get competent with chair lifts so I enjoy the trip to France in April.

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I suspect many beginners who are not otherwise particularly bothered about heights become tense, to the point of incompetence, when faced with a narrow track with a drop off both sides, even though they are actually quite capable of turning down the available space. Our home run is like that, and I can ski down it no problem, and having skied right off the edge once, in a white-out, I know that the drops are actually not that scary. But on my snowboard, the first time I tried to come down it, I was so worried about my ability to control the turns that I did become completely incompetent. My doubts about my abilities were perfectly rational, but the effect it had on me, making me completely incapable of doing anything (I took the board off and walked down 100m to a wider bit, where I was fine) was definitely irrational. Most people will overcome that - I went off and practised turning on a nice wide slope, and avoided that run until I was more competent. My skiing is now sufficiently competent that I don't think I'd go "rigid with dread" on any normal piste - I'd remember the right technique, be careful to do it right, and get myself down without drama. I ski with a brother in law who had a real dread of "edges" even when the slope concerned is well within his ability; I have to try to plan which avoid them, and if possible, ski between him and the edge. I did once have a moment of complete vertigo on a Cornish cliff - I'd done a lot of walking on the cliff path, with no problems, then one day, something flipped and I had to sit on my bottom and shuffle along the path for some distance before the feeling passed. It does help to have had a glimpse of these fears - but it can also be difficult to be empathetic with some of the dafter ones.

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Megamum, I've managed to overcome my fear of heights for the most part, I want to ski more than I'm frightened, but have to agree I really don't like travelling down on a chairlift. It's much worse than going up.

After all it is free

I have a fear of cliffs for some reason. I don't mind at all about lifts of any description, but I don't like skiing anywhere near a drop of any sort, even if there's a fence or crash netting there. There was a piste in Alpe d'Huez (might have been Chamois) which scared me stiff last year, because there was a big drop to one side and there was a ferocious wind blowing in that direction. Even though it was totally fenced off it made me very nervous. Maybe I just don't trust myself enough rolling eyes

Have a fear of heights myself, but have never found myself trembling whilst skiing, with 2 notable exeptions...

1. The top of the old Cime de Carons (Sp?) in Val Thorens, where you step out onto a metal platform pinned to the side of the cliff face
2. The chair in Val d'Isere (Solaise to Le Fornet sector) which goes 'over the top' - anyone who has tried it will know where I mean...

Both were, to me, truly brown trouser moments...

The third was slipping on the Arete from the Aiguille du Midi whilst entering the Vallee Blanche, but I don't think that is unique to a fear of heights - anyone would feel their heart beating a little quicker at that Laughing

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i don't like heights particularly but it is more when the height is dangerous. eg. i have absolutely no problems with cable cars, chairlifts, planes etc. but when stood at the top of a steep drop i am scared to death, which could be part of where my confidence issues are coming from. If the slope looks nice a wide and a steadyish slope it doesn't bother me, when it is so narrow i have to be able to turn on a sixpence or it is so steep i can't see over the drop then i get scared. The other thing i don't like is those open metal grids you have to stand on at the top of lifts sometimes, or any of the those metal grid type steps.

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I am badly scared of heights but I like to scare myself and control that fear.

It is the same reason I ski difficult runs and steeps.

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Oh God, Guvnor, I'm heading to Val d'Isere next month. I am awful with heights, get vertigo, am a lemon on chairlifts, you name it. I have gotten better over the past few years but will still scream at people (whether I know them or not) if they lift the bar too early, take of their gloves, basically move at all. That up and over makes me feel sick and dizzy now and I'm sitting at my desk!

Familiarity and confidence in situations reduces fear over time - or it did for me.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

jtr, is that the bit with the warning sign featuring a man being projected over a cliff?

A picture

A snowHead

A snowHead

Lots of interesting points in this thread.

A fear of charlifts isn't necessarily underpinned by a fear of heights - it can be an equally primal fear of being trapped which often crops up behind flying,driving and other such phobias.

A really good coping (and curative) strategy for a chairlift phobia is to ride it with friends and explain the phobia, whilst giving them carte blanche to provocatively question. This approximates a bona fide therapeutic technique. Something like:
Sufferer: "I don't like this, I'm feeling sick and sweaty"
Friend: "Really, how have you managed to feel like that?"
Sufferer: "Being this far off the ground makes me feel sick"
Friend: "How wierd! I feel fine. So let me try this, as the chairlift goes up, what do I do?"
Sufferer: "Nothing, you just feel awful"
Friend: "OK, I'm doing nothing, I feel fine. Nothing to worry about. So what am I missing?"
Sufferer: "Well you need to tense up and grip the bar tightly"
Friend: "Why would i want to do that?"

Trying to justify a phobia to (sympathetic) wee wee-taking can be a great way to shake it!

By the way, some of the examples of specific nervousness in this thread alex_heney being uneasy at the start of the week, or Frosty the Snowman,'s friend being fine in a gondola but not a chairlift should have a *very* high chance of being *very* quickly improved by a good therapist.

I'm sure there's a regular snowheads contributor who's a hypnotherapist...be interesting to hear their views.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I have no fear of heights normally but am still scarred by attempting the blue run home in Soll before I was able, which is a narrow track and was icy enough in spots. I'd never skied on any kind of track before and did it with an equally incompetent group from ski school after the class, so without an instructor. I didn't fall but I was petrified and my legs were like jelly afterwards from all the snowploughing. I'm sure I have it completely blown out of all proportion but I remember thinking the drop-offs were very steep and being shocked that there was no crash barrier or similar. It seems funny now re-telling it but I'm still not overly fond of tracks.

Another Soll-related incident; the instructor brought us up to the top of the Hohe Salve to give us a taste of what we could aspire to but then decided that most of us weren't up for the full ski back down and made us go on a one man wood-seated chairlift. I've never been on a one man chairlift since or before and although the view and peacefulness were amazing, I did think it was a bit jerky and that the ski down couldn't have been any less scary.

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A chum of mine with a fairly severe fear of heights - scared on the mountain road to the resort, scared on all above gound lifts, scared when a piste drops away, massive emarrassment to one and all on the London Eye, you get the picture - tried hypnosis a couple of years ago and apparently it worked like a charm. She was peering out of the car window on the way up the mountain, 'Oooh look at those people, they look just like ants.' and so on, looking out of the cable car window, considering becoming a scaffolder in Manhattean (that last bit may not be true). The effects are apparently wearing off (shrewd work by the hypnotist?) and she's planning a top up before her next trip.

Beats me, but it seemed to work for her.

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[quote="Guvnor"]Have a fear of heights myself, but have never found myself trembling whilst skiing, with 2 notable exeptions...

2. The chair in Val d'Isere (Solaise to Le Fornet sector) which goes 'over the top' - anyone who has tried it will know where I mean...

quote]

If thats the Leissieres Express Chair people actually jump off at the top here on occasions.

Regards Mark

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MissRibena, I'm happy on all chairlifts but that 1-man one along the ridge at Soll is a nightmare Shocked

I've skied there 3 weeks in total and only seen it open a handful of times due to it's exposed position and the wind - I'd much rather ski the red back from the top to the bottom of the mountain than use it now Very Happy

, not an option when you're a beginner though.
As for the blue track back from mid-mountain it was shut most of our first week (lack of snow) so the beginners used the lift back down and the rest of us skied the red. The 2nd year we went it was open so we all tried it out, I much prefer the red TBH. It's a narrow track like you say and hard work when all you can do is snowplough turn Sad

Once you become more confident and are happy tackling it as series of (semi) linked turns however it suddenly becomes a totally different run!!
Nursery slope - good for beginners
Bowl at the mid station - good for improving beginners
the blue run between the 2 - not so good for beginners (does nothing for their confidence at all).

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Topsmoke, I think that since the lift was upgraded a couple of years back jumping off at the top would be a bit of a challenge. Skullie

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I am scared of heights and the first time skiing was a nightmare but funny to look back on.
I wouldn't sit facing backwards on the gondola and had a heart attack if anyone rocks it (actually still do that).
Chairlifts were the worst - first one I ever went on (2 man on nursery slope - very low to the ground) I cried all the way up rolling eyes

. Then you get to the big ones, the high up ones, have to grip bar tightly and not look down, just focus ahead. Worst is when my husband asks me to hold his poles while he messes with his gloves or boots - not good. Got better the more I've been on but still panic when lifting the bar up when close to the top - am still insistant that we leave it down until the very last minute.
Get scared on the piste to if steep, but like someone else said, if it's looking steep I just concentrate on where my next turn is and take it one step at a time till I reach the bottom.

(Took me about 4 months to get the courage to go up the loft ladder we had fitted in our house - hands were shaking all the way up (cannot do ladders)) - say no more Embarassed

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I don't like heights but have never had a problem with chairlifts. However, having watched Where Eagles Dare as a kid, I spent years being terrified of cable cars!

Help!!

Skiing with a fear of heights

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