 Poster: A snowHead
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Soelden, Austria, 14 November. An 8-hour rescue has been mounted on the Rettenbach Glacier to save 70 skiers stranded on a gondola paralysed by high winds.
NEWS.com.au has the story of this complex operation, carried out in severe sub-zero conditions...
It follows a similar incident only two days earlier in Tignes, France.
| Quote: |
| EMERGENCY workers rescued 70 people one by one after they became stranded on a ski lift buffeted by fierce winds in Austria. Helicopters usually used in such rescue operations could not be deployed because of the strong gusts. Australian television said no injuries were reported. The operation took place at the popular Soelden ski resort, a key venue for World Cup alpine skiing events. Authorities were called after strong winds dangerously rocked gondolas carrying skiers to slopes at an altitude of 3000 metres. |
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 14-11-04 23:31; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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According to SZ Online, lift company spokesman Hansjoerg Posch has confirmed that the actual numbers involved were 70, and not 133 as first reported, and that there were no serious injuries.
The similarities with Friday’s misadventure on the Tignes glacier are striking. On the Soelden glacier, the rescue operation lasted well into the evening. First reports had suggested a total of 113 passengers were stranded in 14 gondolas. The incident occurred at around 1.30 pm, with an extremely powerful gust of wind dislodging a control cable, resulting into the inertia security brake cutting in. The lift had been operating at slow speed prior to the problem because of the strong winds, although this failed to prevent the derailment, said a spokesman.
The adverse weather conditions meant that a helicopter rescue operation, the preferred method in such circumstances, was rendered impossible. The passengers therefore had to be roped down from a height of nearly 50 metres. As darkness closed in, and temperatures fell below -20°C, the operation became more and more hazardous, and had taken nearly 8 hours to complete by the time the last skiers were brought down at 9.15pm. The rescued passengers were given food and first aid in the restaurant before being taken back down to the valley.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 15-11-04 9:36; edited 4 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Here's an Austrian report and photos on this incident from Tirol.com (German text).
From a very rough translation it's clear that this was a far more complex recovery operation than Tignes because the rescue team had to work its way down the traction cable, from gondola to gondola, performing an individual winch for each cabin and its passengers.
A similar question to Tignes will arise for any safety investigation: was the lift operating in wind speeds it was designed for, or did the gust(s) responsible for each incident exceed the parameters?
Plus, of course, the question of wind forecasting: if the wind gusts exceeded the operational limit of the lifts concerned, did the weather forecast predict winds that might threaten gusts of this force?
Here's a perspective close to home: No sooner had the Aonach Mor (Nevis Range) gondola begun operation in Scotland in 1990 than a (thankfully empty) gondola cabin was blown right off its cable attachment and fell to the ground. In a subsequent winter there was serious damage to the quad chairlift on the same mountain due to wind.
On Cairngorm the old White Lady chairlift was regularly shut down by high winds. When it was closed it even had to have its cables tied to ground anchors by separate cables to ensure that the cables didn't blow off the pylons.
At the Doppelmayr factory in Austria I was once shown a video of a chairlift with empty 4-seat chairs spinning around the cable in high winds - one reason to build detachable lifts, where the chairs can be stowed safely in the station during a storm.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 15-11-04 9:00; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For those unfamiliar with the glacier skiing above Soelden, and the lift involved, the Rettenbach is actually one of two glaciers used for skiing up there. They are linked by a road tunnel.
Here's the lift map. The Rettenbach Glacier is on the right, and the gondola is clearly shown.
There's been extensive development of this ski area in recent years. The glacier area was only recently linked into Soelden's main ski area, via a ski tunnel. Previously it was only accessible via an access road, and often closed in winter. This map shows the whole system, and can be zoomed.
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The Scotsman is now reporting that another Austrian gondola (empty at the time) crashed to the ground "yesterday afternoon" after a cable was severed in high winds. Oddly, the gondola's location isn't identified, and they give the original rescue numbers for the Soelden incident, so this report needs a bit of clarification and may have been corrected by the time you read this.
Here's the link to the Scotsman report.
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Clarifying the above, it seems that the empty gondola was on the same (Rettenbach Glacier) system, and plunged 40m to destruction. This puts a much higher magnitude of concern on the incident, since it could equally have contained passengers.
Not surprisingly (especially because the memorial to the Kitzsteinhorn disaster in November 2000 was only opened four days ago) there is now a public debate in Austria about ski lift safety - which is actually very good, but an obvious concern for the Austrian tourist trade. This item from the Austrian broadcast channel ORF indicates the level of debate [the various topic items can be clicked, though they're in German]. It seems that the number rescued yesterday was 113 and there have been complaints about the time it took, though these operations are extremely tricky without helicopters.
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Pretty scary stuff. Only on two occasions I have been quite scared of similar things happening.
Both last year; Pila, Italy: High-winds on the gondola back down to the town at the end of the day meant they had to stop and start it (why, i don't know - i feared the gondola would swing into the pylon - although surely this would be a silly design). Anyway, it was scary enough for me.
Another was in Zermatt, although not high winds it was a chairlift (one of the covered types) where we were stuck for 35 mins...it was about -23c) . I wasn't overly concerned but did wonder how the hell they would get us down if they couldn't restarted the motors....presumably the lifts can run backwards under gravity. One would hope!
Anyway, thank god no-one was in the one that fell!!! Let's hope nothing happens for the rest of the season!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What are the winds speeds that are being reported, are they much higher than normal. Surely a certain amount of tolerance had been built into the maximum recommended wind speeds these lifts an operate in seems odd that 2 systems
have experience wind related incidents. Are the reported peak wind speeds generally on the increase due to weather change.
Does this mean we are likely to see more lift closures due to high wind speeds
forecasts this year as a knee jerk reaction to these incidents.
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All these systems have strict limits on operational wind speed, and the operation is also subject to favourable wind speeds being forecast because mountains must be shut down in good time if inexperienced skiers (for example) could be stranded on gentle slopes at the top of a mountain.
Again, the old Cairngorm chairlift was a good example. It had to be very carefully controlled, because the gentle slopes on the Ptarmigan bowl (near the top station)are one thing. The descent from there is quite another - far too tricky for novices. So Cairngorm had to be able to evacuate the top of the mountain if a surprise storm was forecast. The new funicular eliminates this worry, because it can run in much stronger winds.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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At the time of posting this link (the page will change later) the front page of Tirol.com shows a gondola in mid air, with the door open, two racks full of skis, but the cabin empty inside - graphic proof of what happened.
This page should remain live - click here - showing the severed cable lying on the ground by the pylon where the empty cabin fell. The opinion of Tirol.com is that the incident came within a hair's breadth of catastrophe. The interesting (and very rare) thing is that the cable broke, which was the original fear at Tignes - what exactly caused this to happen?
A local prosecutor has appointed an expert investigator, and a German lawyer - Michael Witti - is making threatening noises about suing for skiers who waited long hours to be saved, in very cold conditions. He currently represents a large number of relatives of those killed in the Kaprun-Kitzsteinhorn funicular.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 15-11-04 21:45; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Claiming compensation may seem like jumping on the bandwaggon, but if negligence was involved - and the investigation has yet to rule this out - it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me.
The article David cites is entitled "A hair's breadth from disaster". Hardly exaggerated, when you read on to the part that mentions the empty car that crashed to the ground, covered by tarpaulins in an attempt to prevent the resort from even worse publicity than it is already receiving. Passengers would have had little chance of surviving a 40 metre fall.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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PG, Compensation for negligence is fine if against the lift operators if they were found to be operating the lift out side of accepted parameters or for poor maintenance etc. I don't however feel its is appropriate to sue because the rescue took to long, after all I'm sure that there is no manual that will state the time a rescue should take. The governing factor for any rescue operation is to reduce the risks to the rescuers and to save lives without putting others in unnecessary danger.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The argument will probably come down to whether the ski patrol in Soelden (or whoever coordinated the effort) shipped in sufficient rescue personnel from other locations. I imagine that all access was by climbing pylons, since the helicopters were grounded, so there would have been a limit to how many rescuers could access each gondola.
Certainly it's the kind of case that would be field day for lawyers and expert witnesses.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If compensation claims go against rescue teams their insurance will be massive and so the price of of lift pass will rise higher still. Potentially private lift companies especially smaller ones will not be able to cope with the increased cost causing further resort closures in the smaller resorts. A previous news thread link talked about diversification of lower ski resorts due to lack of snow. Compensation claims like this can tip the scales the wrong way and have far wider implications than just higher lift pass prices.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A new report from Tirol.com (again in German) looks at the safety of a new 3-cable gondola, compared to the usual 1-cable or 2-cable systems.
Certainly the number of cables - and the distance between them - is an issue in resisting cross-winds.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
A new report from Tirol.com (again in German) looks at the safety of a new 3-cable gondola, compared to the usual 1-cable or 2-cable systems.
Certainly the number of cables - and the distance between them - is an issue in resisting cross-winds. |
Which is presumably why Val Thorens have been installing Funitels - the cables are very widely spaced and they are supposed to be able to cope with very strong winds.
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Hopefully we can unearth some data on the respective wind resistance of various designs. There are very few players in the field of ski lift engineering but, of course, they operate in the context of safety authorities in numerous countries.
These two incidents are bound to lead to intensive study and debate between the professionals involved.
One lift which was scrapped due to a wind exposure problem was the cablecar that originally carried people from Bourg St Maurice to Arc 1600. It's an important little journey because it carries workers up to the resort, in addition to the tourists. Hence the (very expensive) funicular that later replaced it.
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| Quote: |
| One lift which was scrapped due to a wind exposure problem was the cablecar that originally carried people from Bourg St Maurice to Arc 1600. It's an important little journey because it carries workers up to the resort, in addition to the tourists. Hence the (very expensive) funicular that later replaced it. |
Took a ride in it during the 70s, sightseeing, first trip ever in a cablecar. Little did I realise that thirty years on, here I would be...
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Hopefully we can unearth some data on the respective wind resistance of various designs. |
According to this site, the Funitel de Bouquetin can theoretically handle winds of 108kmph. I don't think I'd want to try it...
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FAQ
). Especially the gondolas at the lift that derailed were very modern (not older than 5 years as far as I remember).
I hope these two incidents will wake the authorities up.
snowHeads 
