Skiing on Ice

A snowHead

When you suddenly hit an icy patch on the piste.

what is the best course of action?

A snowHead

Here's my thoughts on this:

Above all else get that weight on the outside/lower ski. You may be already doing this to an extent, but REALLY do it on ice!

However, if its very short you may be able to slide it out and grip again in the next soft bit.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Christopher,

If it is just a patch..ignore it..and react when on a grippier surface.

It the 'patch' is on a pitch that requires 3-4 turns then you probably can't do that. Try and ski slower and more positively with your edges and try not to give them too much to do by not skiing 90 degrees to the fall-line. Some skis help more than others..and the condition of your edges will be key here, so if it isn't your technique but the skis...just go with the slide... and stop/slow down of the softer bits.

Skiing ice on the right skis should be great fun btw..as you pass everyone else struggling....!!!!

If you think those are the conditions of the day..and you really should have some idea about this..then prep your edges beforehand. Some peeps carry a file which is always a good idea, if poss'

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The first thing you need to do is go back in time, this is tricky but can be done with practice, correctly fitting boots, some instant coffee and a microwave.

Now really sharpen your edges they should be sharp enough to cut your finger nail, before you hit the ice anticipate the fact that your skis will want to go faster and shoot out from under you by leaning slightly forwards.

When you hit the ice as balernoStu, said if possible do nothing and head for some softer snow.

If you need to turn or stop on ice, I would disagree with balernoStu, start with a good edge set, be as light on your skis as you can by evenly pressuring them and unweighting throughout the turn by steadily increasing the flex of ankles and knees, it feels totally counter intuitive, just when you feel you need to dig the edges in, you are doing the opposite. I suspect some/many might disagree with this tactic but it is effective, try it, it works for me.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I forget about turning too much and try to spot a bit of decent snow further down the hill that I can get to.

Then wait till you hit that before trying to regain control; either by getting the breaks on a bit, doing a couple of turns or both.

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The best thing I found last year was to demo some WC slalom skis. Was gald to find that sometimes you can blame your kit wink

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so to summarise:

1. dig your downhill ski in extremly hard.

2. prepare sharp edges on your ski

3. ski slower

cheers, that should be of some help. i alsways struggle on the icy patches.

After all it is free

Christopher, be careful with that no 1. I'm not great at ice myself, but the first thing you should do is think soft - soften every muscle you can (although a couple may be clenching completely automatically). Then, similarly to what jbob said, gently get the weight on the down hill ski. The softer and more gently you make your moves the more chance the ski has of following the contours of the surface it's on and maintaining grip. Rigid legs or sudden moves will produce jarring pressure peaks that only cause the ski to break away and you're slithering down out of control.

Yes indeed be careful with no. 1, i.e. the thoughts of 'dig'ging in: if 'dig' means pushing it away then it is even more likely to slide out and drop you on the inside. This is not the same as getting weight onto the outside ski, which is better achieved by a sideways shift of balance to the outside.

I agree with the others about softening the legs, esp. ankles in a controlled flex. Rigidness in the legs will indeed make matters worse.

Sharp edges do make a huge difference Cool

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it does depend on the situation, IMO. skiing slowly isn't necessarily the answer - sometimes just going for it and trusting your edges is better than edging slowly across an icy patch. it obviously also depends how much room you have, the consequences of losing an edge etc

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remember definitions though!

American "ice" = firm European piste
Scottish ice = blue see through rock hard stuff, proper ice!!

regards,

Greg

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kitenski, Ah but then you get PSD L2A glacier ice. Made from 10,000,000 year old, diamond grade stuff. Little ice gremlins melt the top cm every night, refreeze. and then polish with a soft rubbing compound.

You know it makes sense.

My take on this

Breathe out , Relax
Get weight forwards slowly
Initiate turn from ankles gently with progressive weighting and be prepared to back off if your skis start separating
Aim away from Trees!

pm spyderjon for edge tuning gear should you survive

Fortunately - skiing mainly in N America I don't have to deal with ice that often! Toofy Grin

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

stoatsbrother, I take it you've not made it to New England then Wink

A snowHead

Frosty the Snowman, that sounds hard. I hear glacier ice can be so hard its difficult to dig an axe in, never mind grip with skis.

A snowHead

Frosty the Snowman,

Yes, there is ice and there is ice.. If you don't get an edge in the PSB stufff, then you are lost..and it would take good skill and a very good set of skis to make much sense out of that. But if we are talking icy..as opposed to pure blue ice... so, a re-frozen piste which will cause judder if not edged properly, then that should be used as a confidence builder with a hard commited turn.

As always, because defintions are variable, then so should be the way you approach them...

If it is hard hard but grippy on top, then go at it, if it is glazed, back off and help the ski out by not overloading the turn. Either slower or softer will do here.

Just another example of how many tricks in the box you might need

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

On proper ice I just tend to firmly clench the buttocks (important), get the skis flat and pointing down the fall line and don't do anything else until conditons significantly improve. This can take some time and dosen't always end with maximum style points, but does have the merit of toning up the gluteus maximus nicely.

Occasionally, when reviewing my technique, I feel that there may be some small room for improvement.

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if all else fails sideslip

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Most people above are advocating trying to grip the ice, which is a perfectly reasonable tactic.

An alternative tactic is to do exactly the opposite - widen your stance, flatten your skis completely, have your weight evenly distributed, keep turning, but keeping the skis completely flat - with no edging at all. That way you're using the friction of the base to provide some speed control. The more you keep the skis turning the better your speed control will be.

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ice? Don't worry about it - just drift over it as quickly as poss - don't try and turn on it! Shocked

Mind you, if there's ice as far as the eye can see, I recommend finding some more northerly facing slopes to ski on. wink

Should you treat skiing ice like skiing eggshells or is that the advice for skiing moguls - I can't remember! Blush

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Christopher, A slightly wider stance, go gently with an edge check at the end of the turn. If all else fails go with the flow, don't fight it and get down as best you can without coming a cropper. As others have said some of the technique employed is dependant on the skis you use and how sharp your edges are.

After all it is free

Relax and edge.

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Whitegold, I agree for once...

GrahamN - I just fly over that bit... Have skied Quebec though

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Back to the original question, Christopher, for just an "icy patch", the best is just ride it out till you get to the softer stuff.

Not turning too much is actually a pretty good solution. If the situation allows, that is. It avoids the nasty surprise of your downhill ski breaking away when you cross the fall line.

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I try to ride it out.

Think of a car; if you hit a patch of ice, do you (a)brake (b)turn the wheel sharply to get off the ice or (c)drive smoothly without any sudden changes of speed or direction? It's not much different on skis, I reckon.

If you need to turn on ice, a positive pole plant, a smooth transition of edges and round you go. Concentrate on your balance and you'll be OK, ice tends to tip you into the backseat a bit, so I try to maintain what (laughably in my case) is called an althetic stance. Relax!

You know it makes sense.

fatbob, fair point, but it was just I happened to be working there at the time. I thought the guy I went with was being a bit keen when he sharpened his skis just as we got out of his truck, and then we found the fields of moguls 3' high you could see through....urrggh! Not all US skiing is champagne powder Sad

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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I actually found something that it seemed easier to do on ice (apart from falling down) and that was side slipping. Now this isn't a skill that I get anywhere close to doing normally, but my best shot ever at it was on the Tuesday morning on holiday this year, when the slope did slushy on the monday afternoon and then froze overnight just after the piste basher tracks had left their marks all across it. It wasn't a case of dig the edges in and then release it was more a case of stop with the skis across the slope and you immediately started doing brilliant side slips!! Laughing

A snowHead

Slide and survive! if it really is a patch release the edges and reengage them when you get to some snow.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

PhillipStanton, Yeah, but you're a ski-instructor...so spoofing it like you are always in control is your business is it not? Twisted Evil

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Christopher, I'm sorry, I don't think my last post was particularly practical. IMHO, icy slopes need at least one thing - almost all your weight on your downhill ski . The other thing is a very positive control input - i.e. you need to really drive your skis - so lots of strong into the boot movement and the like. Couple strong control with 90% presssure on your downhill ski and ice becomes like any other part of the mountain, IMHO.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Christopher, one word RELAX
You can either ski positively with firm edges or passively with flat skis.
Always have in your mind that ice is fun and enjoy that different sensation that ice brings.

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Had some fun mountain biking across sheet ice this weekend on the Peak District. Almost the same technique really. Stay balanced, and don't make any sudden movements, and in the case of a bike, hope that you don't hit an adverse camber. Shocked

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Megamum, used this technique quite extensively in the first week of the season in Chamonix last year on the Grand Montets! I whole heartedly agree with it. I think you also need to know when to call it a day! If its not going to get any softer or better that day, give up! (Not a very snowhead attitude but essential for maintenence of my sense of well being!)

After all it is free

I'm not a fan of ice, nor am I particularly good at skiing on it, but I do think that looking beyond it helps. If you aim to ski as normal, thinking about not your next turn, but where you are heading in 2 - 3 turns time, I think it takes away the panic.

Alternatively, I have heard of a fantastic new skiing concept called Rax which I think might solve this problem for all of us Shocked

Best advice I ever had for ice was "it's ice, you're going to skid so just accept it and go with it". IME the key is relaxation, the moment you tense up you're a goner - easier said than done, mind!

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