 Poster: A snowHead
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 Zermatt (Switzerland) is to be the first winter sports resort to employ an “all weather” snowmaking system. From an Israeli company, IDE Technologies, the system allows for snow to be produced whatever the outdoor temperature, and with only moderate energy consumption. The All Weather Snowmaker is capable of producing up to 2,000 m³ per unit per day of environmentally friendly snow, at all ambient temperatures.
The machine is based on IDE´s Vacuum Ice Technology (VIM), which has been in operation worldwide for over 15 years. The All Weather Snowmaker ensures reliable snow production throughout the entire ski season....Facts about IDE´s All Weather Snowmaker:
• Snow production at all ambient temperature
• 200 to 2,000 m³ of snow per unit per day
• High quality, environmentally friendly snow
• Low operating costs and manpower requirements
• Automatic computerized system
• Optional automatic snow distribution system
• VIM can use any typical source of Alpine water for snowmaking
For more info see: http://www.ide-snowmaker.com/
And: http://www.zermatt.ch/data/pdf/zt/SchneemaschineE.pdf
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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el Hen,
How much for one?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| el Hen wrote: |
Facts about IDE´s All Weather Snowmaker:
• Snow production at all ambient temperature
• 200 to 2,000 m³ of snow per unit per day
• High quality, environmentally friendly snow
• Low operating costs and manpower requirements
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Facts?
Reads more like commercial propaganda to me.
I've never heard of artificially-generated snow being independently described as "environmentally friendly".
Zermatt's doing quite a lot of stuff at the moment that its loyal supporters have problems with. Check out the resort's guestbook comment on the proposed '4000m' extension tower to the Klein Matterhorn. Zermatt also has one of the largest heli-skiing operations around.
On what basis do you state the above points as "facts"?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Facts would be from the sites that el Hen references...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OK, let's deal with those so-called "facts" in turn:
| Quote: |
| Snow production at all ambient temperature |
That is a claim that snow can be made in any ambient air temperature. Yes, you can draw heat from air and water (using various methods, including theirs) mix the two, and spray it around. How much energy do you suppose it takes to make snow at an ambient air temperature of 30C, cold enough to lay on the ground? At a "low operating cost", as above?
| Quote: |
| 200 to 2,000 m³ of snow per unit per day |
If that's what it says on the tin, then I guess that's a fact ... because that's the basis on which they're selling the hardware
| Quote: |
| High quality, environmentally friendly snow |
Highly contentious. The manufacturers aren't claiming it as a fact, they're making a marketing claim, so it shouldn't be represented as a fact.
| Quote: |
| Low operating costs and manpower requirements |
"Low" is one of those words that could be played with. Making snow at high ambient air temperatures, cold enough that it will stay unthawed for a few hours, is expensive. I think this is a highly questionable "fact"
[that's enough facts. Ed]
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Amazing.
Personally, I think that if a manufacturer states a point of information then it should be treated as a 'claim', and not simply reproduced as fact ... unless, of course, there's some credible independent validation of the claim.
Skiing has well and truly f**ked up the environment, and I personally think there should be a moratorium on further engineering 'solutions' to lack of snow. We're going to have to live with what nature provides. Zermatt, of all resorts, should be a figurehead of environmental stewardship (and in many aspects of its operations has taken quite a responsible approach). This idea of 'man over mountain' clearly appeals to the Zermatt lift company (now very powerful and profitable following the mergers of the separate companies) but the Swiss authorities should reign them in. They're getting greedy, and not looking after the long-term conservation of the magnificent terrain they're lucky enough to profit from.
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David Goldsmith, you seem quite bitter about this...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, you seem quite bitter about this... |
I don't know much about Zermatt but I agree that environmental controls should be very high for the mountains. It hardly sends the right message.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith, I guess you don't use lifts then?
There comes a point when you need to question the effort required for the sake of skiing, but I've no idea what it takes in terms of energy, pollution etc to make this snow, just as I don't for lifts and ugly high rise apartment blocks that scar some resorts. Seems to me people are turning against technology as if it's somehow bad. The same technology innovations that have given us health, long life, travel, food, warmth, materials and engineering for great enjoyable skiing.
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It's a fact that I do use lifts. Fair point.
But if European governments started reducing their availability, or took many other environmental measures to control the sport, I'd support it.
Things are out of control and very dangerous, especially for populations just above sea level.
Zermatt is situated a fair bit above sea level.
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brian
brian
Guest
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Skiing has well and truly f**ked up the environment |
... and your evidence for this somewhat bold assertion is ..... ?????
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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>> Skiing has well and truly f**ked up the environment,
What do you base this on, that skiing alone has done???
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Poster: A snowHead
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One question has 5 question marks. The following one has 3 question marks.
That's a total of 8 question marks, so here are 8 ways in which we need to reign in environmental impact (all these comprise acknowledged damage from skiing): stop bulldozing and detonating mountainsides to make pistes (you'd be amazed how much goes on); stop high-altitude resort development: it has a big impact on water resources, sewage plants, high roads and pollution etc.; reduce air travel and switch to rail/coach; stop snowmaking installations: they burn a lot of energy in pumping, and the pipework installation causes damage; stop additional lift installations on new terrain, in favour of replacement installations; stop additional piste-grooming: it burns a great deal of fuel; stop the felling of trees for resort development and piste construction: it causes soil erosion and reduces CO2 absorption; encourage longer use of ski products to reduce over-production.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Skiing has well and truly f**ked up the environment |
Much as I love skiing... It certainly isnt an eco friendly sport.
Though hopefully being out in the mountains makes some us more eco-aware ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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To be fair, no sport is really eco-friendly. That said skiing/snowboarding resorts should really go 100% green and stop raping the environment.
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brian
brian
Guest
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David Goldsmith, 8 ways to reign in environmental impact are not 8 pieces of evidence that skiing has  up the environment.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That's a very pedantic point. I suggest you devote the life of brian to sound prophecy etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| To be fair, no sport is really eco-friendly. |
Walking?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Walking isn't a sport.
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Neither is cycling then? Canoeing?
X-c skiing, back country skiing, the list goes on...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If walking is not a sport, then skiing is definitely not a sport - I suppose it is recreation 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Me thinks David Goldsmith is very frustrated, like the rest of us, at not being on the slopes at this very moment. 
Fact (noun)
1: event or thing know to have happened or existed
2: provable truth
Okay, those points at the top may not all be facts (well the one about the friendliness to the environment) but let's not split hairs over this. It's marketing 'fact', that's all.
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It's worth having this discussion though, because resorts will respond to consumer demand like any other business. If skiers are aware of the cost of providing snow when conditions are so wrong, and put pressure on resorts to avoid the most damaging practices, then this will help counterbalance the commercial pressures. On the French site related to the resort where I have an apartment there is a lot of debate about snow making, re-modelling of pistes, etc, and clearly many keen skiers are also highly sensitive to the potential damage. They want to ski, but not at all costs. Few of us do all the "green" stuff that we could (or we wouldn't be skiing, or flying, etc etc) but that doesn't mean it's not worth making reasonable efforts, and some sacrifices, to reduce our impact. Discussions like this can make us better informed, and more aware.
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You know it makes sense.
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-triple posted rather...  -
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 26-11-07 18:00; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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-double posted.. sorry-
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 26-11-07 18:00; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Jonpim, guess it depends on your definition of sport really, for me it would be:
| dictionary.com wrote: |
| an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature |
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Seeing as people the size of mini coopers can walk, i doubt it takes any skill or physical prowess where likes of cycling, skiing etc. do.[/quote]
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Timmaah, you've made your point! 
I always struggled with the concept of 'motorsport'. Obviously it can be hard work, turning the wheel and pressing those pesky pedals, but still.....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| It's a fact that I do use lifts. Fair point. |
Well while we're in a mood for debating what is and isn't fact...
Oh never mind.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DJ, doh! Always get the edit and quote button mixed up... 
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FAQ
, if we all pay £114.29 each, we have got ourselves a snow machine!
