 Poster: A snowHead
|
This is possibly the worst case of hiding behind health and safety to save money I've seen in a while. I know this doesn't effect many people on here, but have a brief read and please find the time to email the man behind this initiative telling him what you think.
Cheers,
Dave
| Quote: |
http://www.ourfernie.com/far-focuses-terrain-park-safety
RCR Press Release
Resorts of the Canadian Rockies focuses on terrain park safety with an industry-leading initiative.
Calgary, AB – November 8, 2007 - Resorts of the Canadian Rockies Inc. (RCR) is recognized as an industry leader in providing world-class guest experiences at its mountain resorts throughout Canada. In doing so, RCR believes that safety in its mountain environments is one of its most important values. Supporting this mandate, RCR is moving in a new direction that will enhance safety at all of its resorts.
RCR cares deeply about the well-being of all of its guests and takes responsibility for their care very seriously. “We are undertaking an industry-leading initiative,” says Matt Mosteller, Senior Director of Business Development for Resorts of the Canadian Rockies. “All man-made snow jumps will be eliminated from RCR terrain parks this season.”
“We have found that one of the main issues that increase the likelihood of serious injury on our mountains is big air,” says Mosteller. “When we are making decisions about safety at our resorts, the big jumps in the terrain parks always come into the equation. We decided to make a change.”
Continues Mosteller, “We are committed to providing our guests with a safe experience at our mountains. We realize that this change may disappoint some guests who regularly use these man-made jump features. However, we believe we have a strong moral obligation to not compromise the safety of our guests.”
At the same time, RCR will be making an increased investment in new rails and features for RCR’s terrain parks. For example, this year’s RCR TELUS Park at Lake Louise Mountain Resort features the highest-ever investment in new, state-of-the-art rail features that will cater to a wide variety of ages and abilities. RCR will have rail parks this season at Lake Louise Mountain Resort, Fernie Alpine Resort and Nakiska.
With the new rail park format, RCR will host a Rail Jam Series that will take place at Lake Louise Mountain Resort, Fernie Alpine Resort and Nakiska. Features used in the Rail Jam Series will be suitable for a high level of competition, while also adhering to safe practices.
For the past three seasons, RCR has also worked hard on developing its family-friendly terrain parks. These unique parks, separate from the larger parks, feature small rails, boxes and rollers, encouraging learning, safety and fun in a non-intimidating environment. The feedback on these parks has been positive and they will continue to develop at all of the resorts. |
let Mr. Mosteller (the guy who wrote the press release) know how you feel
MMosteller@skircr.com
or call:
Matt Mosteller 403 209 3323
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
DaveC, how much can they seriously save by removing kickers? Are you thinking about the cost of making and maintaining kickers or the cost of lawsuits? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
You'd be suprised - it requires staff to shape kickers, groom the park and targeted snowmaking (as well as bringing snow from other areas). I don't see how it can be for legal reasons when sliding on metal rails is still OK, and the lift pass already contains a million waivers... RCR are renowned for their penny pinching ways 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I should imagine they do both get more injuries, and the injuries are liklely to be more serious, from people getting it wrong off big kickers than off the rails.
They never suggested it was for "legal reasons", they just prefer their customers to be back again the next day 
And I imagine the new rails will cost at least very close to as much as building and maintaining kickers would.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Imagine the amount of work that goes into making a big kicker versus just grooming the area it is on. Completely disproportionate amount goes on this given the number of people it benefits.
That's my opinion with no actual knowledge of the industry 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Well, this announcement came as the RCR season pass refund date passed (and as Lake Louise opened). Pretty underhand as it is.
They didn't suggest it was for "legal reasons", they went one better and flat out said it was a pioneering move to look after their customers! Surely their customers can see that "big ramp is best avoided if not wanting to go in air".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DaveC, i agree that it is well out of order to announce a change like this after the refund date
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| DaveC wrote: |
Well, this announcement came as the RCR season pass refund date passed (and as Lake Louise opened). Pretty underhand as it is.
They didn't suggest it was for "legal reasons", they went one better and flat out said it was a pioneering move to look after their customers! Surely their customers can see that "big ramp is best avoided if not wanting to go in air". |
You would think so.
But I suspect a lot of people do attempt things they shouldn't, probably usually egged on by their "mates".
I don't agree with them doing this at all, but I do think the reasons they give are probably pretty genuine, and it isn't just a money saving exercise.
I also think they probably haven't really thought it through. If they don't build kickers, then riders who want them will go out and find natural ones, or build their own, both of which are likely to be both more dangerous, and more inaccessible to rescuers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
I also think they probably haven't really thought it through. If they don't build kickers, then riders who want them will go out and find natural ones, or build their own, both of which are likely to be both more dangerous, and more inaccessible to rescuers.
|
And without kickers, the adrenalen seekers will do whatever other things to get the "kick". That could include flying down the piste very fast, which is way more dangerous to the rest of the slope users.
Instead of confining the problem within the park, they're simply spreading it all over the mountain. Just at the time when most US resorts are building MORE terrain features to keep the teenagers happy and in one place.
I'd say, stay away from the RCR resorts for this season and see how it pan out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| abc wrote: |
I'd say, stay away from the RCR resorts for this season and see how it pan out. |
Shame I already have my season pass!
I guess it's not the end of the world though, it just means that we'll be building our own kickers - more of a fun feel that way anyway. Might have to get creative to get anything similar to the 30ft booters they had last season but I figure where there's a will...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Plenty of righteous anger on Biglines too about this where people have also identified the hypocrisy of hyping the park for ticket sales and also the fact that while it is a safety concern in BC and AB they are continuing to trumpet their fantastic best ever park at their resort in Quebec (Mt St Anne?). If I was an Aussie park rat who'd decided to go work a winter in LL or Fernie I'd be absolutely fuming now
The deep suspicion seems to be cost saving measure. Funny how Whistler & Mammoth etc can reconcile the safety issue.
RCR have a preety poor reputation with the local "captive" market but seem to do everything in their power to erode this further.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| DaveC wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
I'd say, stay away from the RCR resorts for this season and see how it pan out. |
Shame I already have my season pass!
I guess it's not the end of the world though, it just means that we'll be building our own kickers - more of a fun feel that way anyway. Might have to get creative to get anything similar to the 30ft booters they had last season but I figure where there's a will... |
Wonder if Fernie ski patrol will feel the same way as management as they have to kick down inbounds booters on a daily basis or effect multiple accident recoveries (& avy recoveries? ) from Lost Boys.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Obviously business is booming in downtown Fernie. I am not one of the yoof that these runs would try and attract, so will not affect me however if there are some of the younger generation that wish to partake they may have to go to another resort. Shame for Fernie and all people that depend on that industry. At least France so far have not followed in the RCR world leading iniatives!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Did no one else think this thread was about knickers 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Jonpim, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| fatbob wrote: |
Wonder if Fernie ski patrol will feel the same way as management as they have to kick down inbounds booters on a daily basis or effect multiple accident recoveries (& avy recoveries? ) from Lost Boys. |
I'm not sure that'll be the case - they've just said they're not having any kickers in their snowparks. It's pretty difficult to ban kickers mountainwide... They'd have to flatten every natural hit too
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| DaveC wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
Wonder if Fernie ski patrol will feel the same way as management as they have to kick down inbounds booters on a daily basis or effect multiple accident recoveries (& avy recoveries? ) from Lost Boys. |
I'm not sure that'll be the case - they've just said they're not having any kickers in their snowparks. It's pretty difficult to ban kickers mountainwide... They'd have to flatten every natural hit too |
Natural hit - jumper beware.
Man-made, in bounds and known to ski patrol surely must be knocked down in the interests of consistency as to guest safety - I believe Whistler ski patrol destroy anything in bounds for this reason.
Extract from the Mt ST Anne website trumpeting its new XL park - funny no mention of the new initiative here:
"XL TELUS TERRAIN PARK
Opening of the new XL TELUS Terrain park
The park located in the Grande Allée trail at Mont-Sainte-Anne will become park with controlled access, restricted to expert skiers and snowboarders and will offer high level modules.
To have access to these parks, you must:
Buy an access card in the amount of $10, valid at both resorts for the 2007/08 season;
This card is available at the customer service and group counters, as well as our Sports Alpins boutiques. The card is also available at our SnowSports Schools and at the entrance of the park of the Grande Allée trail;
You must fill this form to get your card;
A helmet is mandatory in all the Terrain parks;
For people 16 years or under, a parent or tutor's signature is mandatory;
All the other parks in our resorts are open to all.
XL TELUS Terrain Park form
Warning for school program groups
This terrain park is forbidden for school groups. The reason we have taken these measures, as of February 1st, is to heighten security and to limit the number of risks for the schools at Stoneham and Mont-Sainte-Anne."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
The reason I ask, and I fully agree that to announce this after the season pass refund date has passed isn't playing fair, is that all I know about kickers is that MK seem to be able to build'em up and knock'em down practically overnight, and all with an underpaid skeleton crew. Now they won't be like some of the monsters seen in some outdoor parks but frankly, the ones at MK can get moderately big and most that I've noticed in parks (and here I admit to not knowing jibber from jabber) aren't any bigger.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| fatbob wrote: |
Extract from the Mt ST Anne website trumpeting its new XL park - funny no mention of the new initiative here:
|
Can you link the source? This is pretty damning evidence that it's just simple money grabbing...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| DaveC wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
Extract from the Mt ST Anne website trumpeting its new XL park - funny no mention of the new initiative here:
|
Can you link the source? This is pretty damning evidence that it's just simple money grabbing... |
It doesn't provide the slightest shred of evidence about "money grabbing".
Just because you (Justifiably!) don't like what they are doing, and not all resorts are doing thee same, that does not mean it is "money grabbing".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
when people say "cost saving" I'm sure that's right but they are talking about liability insurance costs not kicker grooming costs
if someone gets paralysed coming of a prepared kicker then they will inevitably try to sue the resort (we might feel that is wrong but we're not the ones needing expensive care for the rest of our lives). If the lawyer can find any fault in the kicker design or maintenance then the bill is likely to be 6 or 7 figures. I guess the risk of a really expensive injury (paralysis) is greater with jumps than rails.
I don't buy that they are protecting their clients, I think they are managing litigation risk and the resulting insurance cost.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I would think that it is quite expensive to maintain all the kickers in a snow park and it would be quite a big drain on resources, they are big, need to be safe and probably need to be reformed/re-modeled after pow days and generally reformed quite often and over a season - it must be quite expensive. Maybe some of the ploughs etc. have just reached the end of their life and it is easier to get rid of a the kickers rather than replace a few piste bashers (at least in the short term). Also the safety side of things is probably an issue and I would think the reason to get rid of the kickers is a bit of both.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
(only reason I read it!) 